OT: CBA Discussion (All tax discussion goes here).
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GeorgeKaplan
Registered User
The one thing that works for the Canadien teams is the players get paid in US dollars and then spend Canadian dollars, so they get to make up sooome of that lost ground there
Gardner McKay
RIP, Jimmy.
It isn't as big of a deal as people think it is.
No, it really doesn't. You're neutering the minor advantage some small market teams have. How do you address cities that are desirable destinations? Do you charge them a cap penalty for that advantage?
The Bolts, Panthers and Stars have had this "advantage" for years. Now that one of the teams is wildly successful it is suddenly a problem?
I don't care if Canadian teams get killed by it. That is their own fault.
Hunter Gathers
The Crown
Hunter Gathers
The Crown
Then get rid of the cap or allow teams to spend above the cap and pay a luxury tax. The purpose of the cap is to put teams on the same page in a strictly financial setting.
Brooklyn Rangers Fan
Change is good.
Well, and the Canadian teams also have some advantages: 1) their cities are home to some players / the teams they grew up rooting for (see: Tavares, John), and 2) if the rockstar lifestyle appeals to you, you're a much bigger deal in a Canadian city than you are anywhere in the States.
Brooklyn Rangers Fan
Change is good.
Yup. The NBA has it figured out.
Gardner McKay
RIP, Jimmy.
While I don't want to get off topic, I don't disagree about changing the system. I'd prefer a luxury tax type system. We have had the cap now for 14 years. If it was that big of an advantage the Bolts, Stars or Panthers should have had at least one cup by now...
Vinny DeAngelo
Jimmy Easy to defend
No they don't theres only like 5 interesting teams and everyone else is unwatchable...
The NBA shouldn't be the goal.
There has to be a way to minimize the effect of the local tax structure on a teams ability to compete
Hunter Gathers
The Crown
I don't think poor management should be an excuse for not addressing a root issue with a financial system based on financial parity that ends up doing the opposite of that, though.
The goal was for financial parity. Why not just have a luxury tax and give out welfare funds to the poor teams? Have a salary floor with no true, hard cap.
Crease
Chief Justice of the HFNYR Court
- Jul 12, 2004
- 24,778
- 27,734
I thought the goal was capping the player's share of league revenue, not parity. Parity was the PR spin when fans started getting angry there were no games. If the league really wanted parity, it would have set the bands much closer to the cap midpoint.
Welcome back, by the way.
nyrage
Registered User
It's certainly a factor, but not as much as some people cite. I often see people say that X dollars in Florida (or other no-tax state) is better than X+Y dollars in NY, but you get taxed for the games played in a state , so the advantage is only for the home games plus or minus a few games depending on the schedule of Florida team vs NY team. There are also other tax differences between states not related to income that can play a factor, too, but can mostly be ignored for simplicty's sake.
One esteemed poster here has used an example a couple of times that mathematically wasn't correct. I'm assuming he used his tax break on all 82 games instead of just the home games when comparing which contract would be better or just chose bad math examples.
Hunter Gathers
The Crown
Yeah, but there are plenty of teams that would spend a higher amount. The small market and middle market welfare teams really drove the hard cap point of view.
Not really back, to be honest. Just that time of year.
Hunter Gathers
The Crown
If 50% of your games are played in a no income tax state, it's a pretty damn big factor, still. There are a lot of intricacies that go into this, but the f***ing with the SALT deductions nonsense on the tax cut bill has also made it an even bigger issue.
Suddenly? Tampa has been signing guys like crazy to cap friendly deals. As has Dallas for years. Panthers are just bad. But there’s a reason players put Canadian teams on their do not trade list and it’s not just cause of the media
nyrage
Registered User
Yeah, it definitely is without a doubt. For example, Stone would make save about $400k in taxes on his $9.5m (half earned in Vegas). I see people use examples in excess of a million per year.
Yeah there are lots of other factors involved (your examples/property tax, local sales tax, other income potential such as endorsements, etc), but people just want a quick salary comparison .
You can estimate taxes on this calculator. Just remember not to use the full amount of salary.
United States (US) Salary Tax Calculator - Good Calculators
Beer League Sniper
Homeless Man's Rick Nash
I wish there was some middle ground. A luxury tax would favor big market teams, but the tax situation right now is a big part of the reason Tampa is running away with the league. Nobody wants to be the NBA, in which only 5 teams are relevant.
Is there any real way to calibrate the cap to post-tax dollars?
Shesterkybomb
Registered User
- Dec 30, 2016
- 17,683
- 19,390
There is but they will never do it. It would be a "after tax adjustment" salary cap.
Also I dont want there to be a soft cap like baseball because all you get are the haves and the have nots. I like the way it is, but the tax thing kinda sucks. Problem is that theres all kinds of advantages New York has attracting talent but we arent concerned about that I guess, imagine a team like Winnipeg or Calgary compared to NewYork trying to compete for UFA players.
Hunter Gathers
The Crown
A luxury tax with a 100% penalty would enable small market teams to spend the exact same as large market teams. It would be a $1-for-$1 trade. If the welfare mooches want to just coast and not spend, they'd have zero excuse.
JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK
Twenty f*ckin years
- Oct 8, 2010
- 80,075
- 17,713
change title to “threads for nerds”
seriously though during the last lockout I knew wayyyyy more about the CBA than any sane human being should, and the same goes for a lot of other people who post here
hopefully i won’t be needing the cba knowledge i’ve repressed since then
seriously though during the last lockout I knew wayyyyy more about the CBA than any sane human being should, and the same goes for a lot of other people who post here
hopefully i won’t be needing the cba knowledge i’ve repressed since then
Gardner McKay
RIP, Jimmy.
Where are the results? Where are the cups? Tampa is the powerhouse this year. Next year things aren't going to be so great for them.
Cities like LA and Chicago have how many cups in the last decade? They aren't exactly located in tax friendly states (especially LA).
Not all cities in Canada are as bad as Montreal (tax wise).
this won't be addressed. the nhl can't control taxes.
and everything that you don't like isn't a loop hole
and everything that you don't like isn't a loop hole
I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn. The purpose of the cap is to make sure the owners get their share of the revenues.
Hunter Gathers
The Crown
That's only true to an extent. I can tell you for a fact that numerous teams would spend above it if allowed. Our team included. The luxury tax would limit the amount spent over it, but teams would absolutely do it.
Gardner McKay
RIP, Jimmy.
This is the real problem. There are always going to be advantages in certain markets that you can't fix in a CBA. People are only pissed because Tampa has a bunch of our former players and are en route to a cup, even those some of the states with the highest tax rates in the US have been recent cup winners.
