Carey Price place in Montreal History

[Sergei Bure]

I think that we can all agree that Carey Price is the greatest player that the Montreal Canadiens have produced in the 21 century, and i don't think that it is even a debate. But overall in the history of the franchise, is Carey Price even without rings a top 10 player in Montreal Canadiens history? And a top 3 goalie? And please don't come with the Stanley Cup wins of others, this guy never played in a team that was close to be a contender, so it's not a disgrace if he retires without winning one for Montreal, because the Canadiens never gave him conditions to win one...

 

[Michael Farkas]

I think framing it against Montreal Canadiens instead of other goalies in the league makes him seem worse...but that's the nature of the thread and I don't intend to change it...

 

[The Panther]

He's been their best player since Patrick Roy, I guess, but... top 10? I dunno, that's a tall mountain to climb.

I guess the question is: Which one of the following could we rank Price higher than?
- H. Morenz
- M. Richard
- D. Harvey
- J. Beliveau
- J. Plante
- G. Lafleur
- P. Roy

So, those 7 are sort-of untouchables, right? With only one 1st-team All Star season (and yeah, no Cups), he can't possibly touch those guys. Then, in addition:

- H. Richard
- L. Robinson
- K. Dryden

That makes 10 historical Canadiens in total, and I can't see Price being higher than any of them. Okay, so then:

- E. Lach
- S. Savard
- B. Geoffrion
- C. Chelios
- Y. Cournoyer

With these 5 (and Chelios had only six-and-a-bit seasons in Montreal), we're now into approachable territory. Price likely ranks somewhere in there, maybe...? But then, I haven't even mentioned...
- G. Vezina
- A. Joliat
- B. Gainey
- G. Carbonneau

So, I don't know, but I'd say Price, at highest, is somewhere in that #11-14 range of Canadiens. Probably somewhere in there, but even that puts him into some pretty elite territory.

Always easier to see these things in hindsight. After he retires, we'll have a better sense of it.

 

[gotyournose]

Definitely not a top 10 player in Canadians history, top 3 goaltender in Canadians history? I would say no. Price is the best player Montreal had since Roy. Without him the past number of years Montreal is a train wreck, no ifs ands or buts

 

[MXD]

I can't picture him in the Top-15.

...okay, maybe 15th. Between him, Cournoyer, Lapointe.

See @Michael Farkas list (did forget Moore).

Other edit : If Andrei Markov would've had the career he should've had, and played his whole career with the Habs, he may have been the best 21st century Habs

 

[Big Phil]

He played for the wrong franchise for this sort of argument. I mean, top 10? Man, that's tough in Montreal. Dickie Moore, maybe even Boom Boom aren't top 10.

 

[tinyzombies]

You have to dig deeper to measure a goalie's worth these days. Save percentage is an outdated stat. This gives a bit more of a glimpse of Price's value out from under the terrible teams that have been in front of him.

Legacies are measured against one's own era, but the current crop of goalies is the next level up in the evolution of the position and Price is arguably at the head of that class. You can take the underlying numbers and project what they would have been on a better team. They are already stellar when he's healthy, and even in down years if you dig deep with advanced stats he still comes out elite in most years. So...

Carey Price Had an Amazing Season with the Montreal Canadiens

Carey Price received a lot of criticism for his 2019-20 season but, in reality, his performance was as elite as the rest of his career has been.

lastwordonsports.com

 

[bobholly39]

He's been their best player since Patrick Roy, I guess, but... top 10? I dunno, that's a tall mountain to climb.

I guess the question is: Which one of the following could we rank Price higher than?
- H. Morenz
- M. Richard
- D. Harvey
- J. Beliveau
- J. Plante
- G. Lafleur
- P. Roy

So, those 7 are sort-of untouchables, right? With only one 1st-team All Star season (and yeah, no Cups), he can't possibly touch those guys. Then, in addition:

- H. Richard
- L. Robinson
- K. Dryden

That makes 10 historical Canadiens in total, and I can't see Price being higher than any of them. Okay, so then:

- E. Lach
- S. Savard
- B. Geoffrion
- C. Chelios
- Y. Cournoyer

With these 5 (and Chelios had only six-and-a-bit seasons in Montreal), we're now into approachable territory. Price likely ranks somewhere in there, maybe...? But then, I haven't even mentioned...
- G. Vezina
- A. Joliat
- B. Gainey
- G. Carbonneau

So, I don't know, but I'd say Price, at highest, is somewhere in that #11-14 range of Canadiens. Probably somewhere in there, but even that puts him into some pretty elite territory.

Always easier to see these things in hindsight. After he retires, we'll have a better sense of it.

I have a higher opinion than most on Price, but:

Your tier 1 guys are untouchable, I agree. I do wonder about Roy vs Price though as a Hab - since Roy only has half his career in Montreal. Still, multiple vezinas, 2 cups/smythes - Roy is probably ahead, but I think it's at least worth looking at more closely because of the length.

So - that places him 8th at most.

Beyond that - I don't know that anyone else listed touches him if we're measuring who had the best playing career as a Hab. Carey Price is more elite than almost any of the others listed. Did some of them have "greater" careers by virtue of all the playoff success and cups? Sure, maybe.

I'd probably slot both Henri Richard and Dryden above Price too in that sense - but I'd slot Price above Larry Robinson, making him 10th all time for the Habs.

So unless we're missing anyone, I think I'd rank Carey Price as the 10th best Hab player to ever play. If some want to give a lot more value to cup wins/playoff success in ranking of "greatness", I'm sure you can knock him down a bit more

 

[bobholly39]

I can't picture him in the Top-15.

...okay, maybe 15th. Between him, Cournoyer, Lapointe.

See @Michael Farkas list (did forget Moore).

Other edit : If Andrei Markov would've had the career he should've had, and played his whole career with the Habs, he may have been the best 21st century Habs

I don't get Markov > Price whatsoever.

If anything, you can probably also say "If Price had had the career he should've had...." and he benefits even more than Markov does. Injuries/bad team management didn't help his career.

Markov was good - and probably could have finished top 5 in Norris a couple of times without injuries - but he was never going to win, and probably not even finish top 3. Price peaked higher, simply higher caliber player imo

 

[JianYang]

I don't get Markov > Price whatsoever.

If anything, you can probably also say "If Price had had the career he should've had...." and he benefits even more than Markov does. Injuries/bad team management didn't help his career.

Markov was good - and probably could have finished top 5 in Norris a couple of times without injuries - but he was never going to win, and probably not even finish top 3. Price peaked higher, simply higher caliber player imo

The sad thing about markov is that he went through a 3 year stretch in his prime where he only played about 64 games in total.

He was coming off a 58 point season, then a 64 point season, and he was just starting to get some noise as an elite dman (despite his understated style) , and then it was a sliced achilees here, a ripped up knee there, followed by getting Matt cooked.... And boom, we lost 3.5 years of his best hockey.

He came back after the lockout... At this point he's around 33 years old, and the fact that he was still pretty darn good is a credit to how smart he was, despite losing some physical attributes.

 

[Boxscore]

Best Hab since Roy but not a Top-10 Canadien. As for goalies, I take Roy, Plante and Dryden over him immediately. Likely Bill Durnan as well. Great player though, Carey Price. And, the Habs stinking for most of his career did him no favors. For example, if the Habs were the Pens over the last 15 years, Price would be perceived a lot differently imho.

 

[Nerowoy nora tolad]

Id feel comfortable ranking him on the same level as Roy. Roys Montreal accomplishments get blown all out of shape & proportion to an extent Ive never seen with any other player

 

[JianYang]

Id feel comfortable ranking him on the same level as Roy. Roys Montreal accomplishments get blown all out of shape & proportion to an extent Ive never seen with any other player

He's not quite roy level, but Patrick certainly had a better environment for success. The habs were good for almost his entire tenure there, and he came at a time that they still had Gainey, and Robinson on the team along with future hall of famers like Chelios and carbo.

Price came in an era where they were only good for 08-09, and the better part of 13-17.... But even those teams were not quite complete enough to be serious contenders, and that lineage of leadership and winning was long disconnected... Ie) no Gainey/Robinson type.

 

[Sergei Bure]

Id feel comfortable ranking him on the same level as Roy. Roys Montreal accomplishments get blown all out of shape & proportion to an extent Ive never seen with any other player

I agree with the second statement, but i give a slight edge to Roy over Price in Montreal...

 

[Boxscore]

i give a slight edge to Roy over Price in Montreal...

Slight edge? Really? In many circles, Roy is considered the greatest goaltender in hockey history. If not, certainly top-3. Price doesn't come close to touching that IMO.

 

[Sergei Bure]

Slight edge? Really? In many circles, Roy is considered the greatest goaltender in hockey history. If not, certainly top-3. Price doesn't come close to touching that IMO.

In terms of entire carrer i agree, but Carey has played his entire career in Montreal and Roy played about half (a little bit more), and although Roy won 2 Stanley Cups and went to the finals 3 times, Carey took to the finals a very mediocre team playing in a habs era very far from the competent franchises that they were until the mid 90's...

 

[Albatros]

Price's 2020/21 season remains less than impressive despite the cup run, not something that would give him an edge over Patrick Roy.

 

[double5son10]

As a Habs fan as much as I admire Price, as far as the pantheon goes I do not see him as a Top-Ten player nor a Top-Three goaltender. All of Plante, Dryden, Roy and Durnan have better resumes. No criticism of Price in that, I think next to Lundquist he's maybe the best goalie of the last 20 yrs. and he's certainly the best Hab of the 21st century, but that's some thin gruel. 2014-15 was an outrageously good season but only one other Vezina finalist spot and no other post-season All-Stars isn't much to hang one's hat on. Is he even a HoFer? I'm not sure about that. Obviously the organization was a mess and that impacts voting but the legacy seems weak now and it'll likely look worse in 20 yrs. Injuries certainly robbed him of some of his peak and they look like they may end his career prematurely, but the overall sum of his work seems kinda empty, to be frank.

 

[Hobnobs]

Roy beats Price without question. Even with "just" the Montreal portion of his career.

However I'm not sure even Roy is in Habs top-10... That franchise is just too deep. And with Price not being on that level he's well out of the top-10.

Richard
Beliveau
Harvey
Plante
Robinson
Mahovlich
Lafleur
Morenz
Dickie Moore
Dryden
H. Richard
Lalonde
Geoffrion
Joliat

Are most likely above them both with Roy having the biggest argument to slot above some of these players.

While there would be an argument if Price is even a top-5 goalie in Habs history with Vezina, Durnan and Hainsworth also being great goalies.

 

[Buffalowing1988]

Roy beats Price without question. Even with "just" the Montreal portion of his career.

However I'm not sure even Roy is in Habs top-10... That franchise is just too deep. And with Price not being on that level he's well out of the top-10.

Richard
Beliveau
Harvey
Plante
Robinson
Mahovlich
Lafleur
Morenz
Dickie Moore
Dryden
H. Richard
Lalonde
Geoffrion
Joliat

Are most likely above them both with Roy having the biggest argument to slot above some of these players.

While there would be an argument if Price is even a top-5 goalie in Habs history with Vezina, Durnan and Hainsworth also being great goalies.

You gotta find room for Lach on that list. That man is criminally underrated. He's in my top 10 (right at the bottom).

And we have gotta quit downplaying the role of late 80s Chelios. Dude was a key part of a Cup-winning team and had an ALL-TIME postseason in 89.

Lach and Chelios go above Price in my book. I would love to delve into why I think Henri Richard is overrated to an extent but he's a folk hero in MTL, I get it. I'd just take Lach 10/10 times over H. Richard.

 

[CzarDemidov]

I think Price was given very few opportunities to succeed in Montreal because of the weaknesses of the team ahead of him. That said, the point is to play well and win and Price didn't win a single Cup. Is he a better goaltender for his era than Dryden was for his era? Possibly, I wouldn't know. Is he a better Habs goaltender than Dryden was, in Habs history? Absolutely not. In Price's era were other fantastic goaltenders that Habs fans conveniently forget to mention: Luongo (tougher career), Lundqvist (longer Prime), Thomas (higher peak than Price), Vasilevsky (higher achievements), etc.

Price isn't top20. Furthermore, I suspect that as soon as the Habs do win a Cup or act like a serious hockey club with serious ambitions and high standards (a tall ask...) those players will inevitably overshadow the players of the dark ages (1995-Present). The best Habs players in my 20+ years of obsessing over the Habs have been Price, Markov, Subban, and Kovalev. Not sure what that means but it doesn't mean anything good for their place in Habs history.

 

[Hobnobs]

You gotta find room for Lach on that list. That man is criminally underrated. He's in my top 10 (right at the bottom).

And we have gotta quit downplaying the role of late 80s Chelios. Dude was a key part of a Cup-winning team and had an ALL-TIME postseason in 89.

Lach and Chelios go above Price in my book. I would love to delve into why I think Henri Richard is overrated to an extent but he's a folk hero in MTL, I get it. I'd just take Lach 10/10 times over H. Richard.

Sure, I agree Lach is underrated. Does this change my point about Price?

 

[Eco]

He's one of the best that just played during the driest spells in Habs history.

But he's also not top 10 all time for the Habs. I'd put Roy down at the best goalie in Habs history, followed by Plante, although that's based on stats and impact on the game.

My Top 10 Habs (not in order), is probably-

Beliveau
Lafleur
Plante
Rocket
Harvey
Morenz
Robinson
Moore
H. Richard
Lach

 

[Buffalowing1988]

Sure, I agree Lach is underrated. Does this change my point about Price?

Nope, and that's fair. I appreciate your opinion. I just have a different one.

 

[Hobnobs]

Nope, and that's fair. I appreciate your opinion. I just have a different one.

I agree with your opinion.

I think the real question is. Is Price above Koivu? Those two seem to be better comparables. Great players both playing for shitty teams. Though in Koivus case Id argue Montreal was even more of a dump than during Prices.