Weekes: Caps, Pens, CBJ have inquired into Hoglander, CBJ AGM scouting Canucks in person

[Rowlet]

Does Vancouver think they need a replacement forward in the return or would they be content with a organizational depth player as a fill in?

No, just a defenseman

 

[seafoam]

I don’t understand the obsession with this guy. He’s a 25-35 point player who potted 24 goals last year while shooting 8% above his career average.

He’s filler.

 

[Lawzy]

I don’t understand the obsession with this guy. He’s a 25-35 point player who potted 24 goals last year while shooting 8% above his career average.

He’s filler.

Likely because all 24 of those goals (and all his points) were at even strength which places him among the best even strength goal scorers last year. They probably have (incorrectly) made the leap in logic that if the kid gets PP1 time he'll explode. Spoiler alert: Hoglander is terrible on the PP.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I don’t understand the obsession with this guy. He’s a 25-35 point player who potted 24 goals last year while shooting 8% above his career average.

He’s filler.

He's 23 and has only played 3ish full seasons. Wouldn't necessarily call him a finished product.

 

[StreetHawk]

Surprised Allvin extended him with all of the ups and downs Hoglander has had with being able to play within Tocchet's system. If they can use him to land a Dman, they'd pull the trigger on that.

 

[RussianRifle27]

He needs to be on a team that doesn’t have a shit coach, so Pittsburgh wouldn’t be a good landing spot for him.

 

[Turin]

Surprised Allvin extended him with all of the ups and downs Hoglander has had with being able to play within Tocchet's system. If they can use him to land a Dman, they'd pull the trigger on that.

Ryan Graves for you

 

[nergish]

I don’t understand the obsession with this guy. He’s a 25-35 point player who potted 24 goals last year while shooting 8% above his career average.

He’s filler.

The guy is very skilled, and a fierce competitor. Would be quite dominant offensively if he weren't undersized. Sometimes plays a bit dirty to get the edge physically, which he might not have to do if he were bigger.

He shows elements of a Brad Marchand-lite, but just hasn't shown enough of the upside to fully make up for some of the boneheaded plays and defensive lapses.

 

[biturbo19]

I agree that Hoglander is worth more than a 3rd and some bullshit like Nieto.

That being said, Petts is our last real trade piece, and I'd be really pissed off if we didn't at least get a late 1st for him. I think the problem is Pettersson and Hoglander are a little far apart in terms of trade value and I don't see a scenario here where Pens extract full value for Petts. Much less under Dubas, who is a complete dipshit.

Me personally I'm much more interested in Lekkerimaki.

This is the real trick. I don't think Hoglander alone lands you one of the top few "rental defencemen" on the market. There's obviously an "add" from Vancouver's side. The question is...what is it? And it's complicated by the fact that i'm not convinced Dubas has a mandate to basically just blow up the team for the final years of Crosby, Malkin, Letang. So i'd think there's a strong likelihood the "return" on Pettersson is seen as "compromised" by wanting back a young, but "right now" player in the deal.

As far as Lekkerimaki, everyone would be much more interested. But i don't know if that's a piece they'd do in a "rental" deal at this point, given what he's shown...and how important he might be as a cheap Boeser replacement contingency, and just the team's cap situation in general.

I'm not personally that high on Lekky, but i think the more likely option would be just...a 1st and some smaller addition, plus some cap to balance.


But Dubas and whatever his mandate is, could play a big role in this. Especially if he's poking around on Hoglander in the first place. And he's very much a "Dubas type acquisition".

Likely because all 24 of those goals (and all his points) were at even strength which places him among the best even strength goal scorers last year. They probably have (incorrectly) made the leap in logic that if the kid gets PP1 time he'll explode. Spoiler alert: Hoglander is terrible on the PP.

This is the real kicker.

He just doesn't see the ice well enough, doesn't read the play well enough, and isn't a good enough passer to be a good PP guy. And he's too small to be a true "Net Front Presence" either, even though he's absolutely at his best around the crease area at even strength.

But there's still clear value in a guy who can generate some significant, if streaky/sporadic offense from the Bottom-6 at Even Strength.

Ryan Graves for you

I'll once again be yelled at by fellow Canucks fans for it, but it's said it before, and i'll say it again...i think Graves is exactly the sort of "buy low" player who has found real success with this particular Canucks coaching staff with Tocchet and Foote.

That contract is terrible...but, it's also cheaper than Zadorov, and i think is a similar sort of player to Zaddy and Myers et al. Guys who play a really "aggressive" game and need to just keep it simple and calm things down a bit. They've worked wonders with a bunch of these guys, as well as plenty of lesser versions of that style.


I doubt it happens, because that contract is just too long...but hey, everyone's focusing on the obvious with Marcus Pettersson and that's probably fair. I'd be curious what a Graves for Hoglander trade would actually look like though. Particularly if the Canucks brass do have a little bit of instant buyers remorse on that extension. Same length of contract term, the money isn't that far off that it couldn't be tweaked somehow.

I'd think the big sticking point is...if Canucks are taking on that Graves deal, the Penguins are adding at least some sort of "plus". Which might be a really tough sell for a team in Pittsburgh's situation. Unless there's some prospect in the system that Rutherford loves still, or something.

 

[Turin]

This is the real trick. I don't think Hoglander alone lands you one of the top few "rental defencemen" on the market. There's obviously an "add" from Vancouver's side. The question is...what is it? And it's complicated by the fact that i'm not convinced Dubas has a mandate to basically just blow up the team for the final years of Crosby, Malkin, Letang. So i'd think there's a strong likelihood the "return" on Pettersson is seen as "compromised" by wanting back a young, but "right now" player in the deal.

As far as Lekkerimaki, everyone would be much more interested. But i don't know if that's a piece they'd do in a "rental" deal at this point, given what he's shown...and how important he might be as a cheap Boeser replacement contingency, and just the team's cap situation in general.

I'm not personally that high on Lekky, but i think the more likely option would be just...a 1st and some smaller addition, plus some cap to balance.


But Dubas and whatever his mandate is, could play a big role in this. Especially if he's poking around on Hoglander in the first place. And he's very much a "Dubas type acquisition".



This is the real kicker.

He just doesn't see the ice well enough, doesn't read the play well enough, and isn't a good enough passer to be a good PP guy. And he's too small to be a true "Net Front Presence" either, even though he's absolutely at his best around the crease area at even strength.

But there's still clear value in a guy who can generate some significant, if streaky/sporadic offense from the Bottom-6 at Even Strength.



I'll once again be yelled at by fellow Canucks fans for it, but it's said it before, and i'll say it again...i think Graves is exactly the sort of "buy low" player who has found real success with this particular Canucks coaching staff with Tocchet and Foote.

That contract is terrible...but, it's also cheaper than Zadorov, and i think is a similar sort of player to Zaddy and Myers et al. Guys who play a really "aggressive" game and need to just keep it simple and calm things down a bit. They've worked wonders with a bunch of these guys, as well as plenty of lesser versions of that style.


I doubt it happens, because that contract is just too long...but hey, everyone's focusing on the obvious with Marcus Pettersson and that's probably fair. I'd be curious what a Graves for Hoglander trade would actually look like though. Particularly if the Canucks brass do have a little bit of instant buyers remorse on that extension. Same length of contract term, the money isn't that far off that it couldn't be tweaked somehow.

I'd think the big sticking point is...if Canucks are taking on that Graves deal, the Penguins are adding at least some sort of "plus". Which might be a really tough sell for a team in Pittsburgh's situation. Unless there's some prospect in the system that Rutherford loves still, or something.

I don’t think it’s unbelievable that Graves could do better elsewhere. He was pretty good in Jersey in the right situation. But it’s absolutely not a fit in Pittsburgh and I would love to stop watching him get paired with Letang or Karlsson ever which is just oil and water.

I’d do Graves and a 2nd for Hog pretty easily.

 

[biturbo19]

I don’t think it’s unbelievable that Graves could do better elsewhere. He was pretty good in Jersey in the right situation. But it’s absolutely not a fit in Pittsburgh and I would love to stop watching him get paired with Letang or Karlsson ever which is just oil and water.

I’d do Graves and a 2nd for Hog pretty easily.

To me, this is the biggest thing with the Graves "disaster". It feels like the Penguins signed him to be this "big, physical, steady, stay-at-home defenceman" to partner with one of Letang/Karlsson. And that's just...not at all what he's ever been. I still think that in a better fit, he could get back to that sort of Top-4D role he grew into with NJD. Especially in the right sort of system. At worst, i think he's still on par or better with Soucy and maybe even Myers, in the sort of collection of #4/5D.


I don't even really mind something like that as the basis of a deal, personally. Even if it's risky as heck. Pens 2nd would be a good trade chip to make further moves toward the deadline.

Problems would be...i think there'd probably also have to be some additional salary dumped the other way, even if the Canucks can operate into LTIR for this year. He's also a very "partner sensitive" defenceman, and i'm not confident the match is there in Vancouver without additional moves. Also, i think at this point, they'd prefer a RHD in the short term. Though in the long-term, LHD probably makes more sense, with Willander coming.

Also just...no way of gauging what Ruthervin think of Graves and if they're nearly as much of a believer as i still am.

 

[Duffy13]

Ehhh...i think Hoglander is a little bit of a different flavour from those guys. People like to call him a "middle-6 forward" but he's really more like...an offensive Bottom-6 Winger with some agitator traits. Most of those guys, especially Beauvillier, can't generate squat on their own. That's where Hoglander is different. He's not really a "tweener" per se.

He's a guy who actually belongs in the bottom-6 and kind of thrives there. He's done some of his best work with guys like...Sam Lafferty, and keeping his game simple. I'd actually argue...Hoggy is kind of the opposite of Beauvillier in that sense. He'll score his goals even if he is on the "4th line". Whereas Beauvillier is just an empty jersey skating around out there, unless he's in absolutely prime minutes in the Top-6 with linemates who can carry him (and even then he kinda sucks and regularly disappears anyway). So there's some potential value in that, even amongst a see of other "filler". He'll stand out in that mix. Just...doesn't play a game that meshes all that well with more skilled and creative linemates.

Ok, thanks, that's a different take on it.

I definitely don't hate the idea of taking on Hoglander, I would not be impressed if he was the centerpiece of a Petersson deal. I am not sure on the prospects per se... however if something like a Petersson retained, a 3rd, and a prospect goes to Vancouver for Hoglander and a 1st... I would be happy with that.

 

[Random schmoe]

I can't see a deal for Hoglander that makes easy sense for the Caps (and Nucks). Given Vancouver fans have stated they would need a RHD and/or young center with top 6 potential [in the JT Miller trade thread]... The Caps shouldn't be trading from their daily lineup of defensemen, and the difference between Hoglander and the guy(s) he'd replace in the lineup - Vrana and/or Sonny Milano [LTIR] - isn't large enough in-season to justify a high value. (Another Caps LW is Mangiapane, but he's playing pretty well and I can't see them wanting to remove him from the lineup.)

I suppose it could be part of a much larger deal, where Vancouver added to get Hendrix Lapierre or Vincent Iorio, but that would have to be a significant add. (The Caps also are at 48/50 contracts currently, and would likely want to keep one or two available in case they have an opporunity to sign Ryan Leonard or Ryan Chesley before July 1.)

(Also, recognizing that Vancouver doesn't have a ton of cap space, they likely couldn't take on much salary. And I'm assuming there would be no interest in getting Ethan Bear back.)

May be a guy like Chase Priskie? He's an excellent AHL defenseman, puckmoving RHD, but he's 28 and isn't likely to ever be very successful in the NHL.

 

[Xoggz22]

And I'll keep saying...we have those players in the system or can find them...you like him, fine...i will continue to say it's not worth giving an asset for...

I would offer that given he has NHL experience and is significantly younger, I would think CBJ would be interested in him depending on cost. While I understand he's "more of the same", he skates better than both Labanc and JVR and with the extra year, give a guy like Brindley even more development time or Hogs could shift in the lineup for another year and be another chip at next year's deadline (2026). Again, this is all predicated on what the ask is. We have more than enough assets and still lack NHL depth in my opinion. If he's a hound on the puck, skates well and has some skill...that's a big time fit in the system we're implementing. Worth kicking the tires in my opinion.

 

[SEALBound]

I can't see a deal for Hoglander that makes easy sense for the Caps (and Nucks). Given Vancouver fans have stated they would need a RHD and/or young center with top 6 potential [in the JT Miller trade thread]... The Caps shouldn't be trading from their daily lineup of defensemen, and the difference between Hoglander and the guy(s) he'd replace in the lineup - Vrana and/or Sonny Milano [LTIR] - isn't large enough in-season to justify a high value. (Another Caps LW is Mangiapane, but he's playing pretty well and I can't see them wanting to remove him from the lineup.)

I suppose it could be part of a much larger deal, where Vancouver added to get Hendrix Lapierre or Vincent Iorio, but that would have to be a significant add. (The Caps also are at 48/50 contracts currently, and would likely want to keep one or two available in case they have an opporunity to sign Ryan Leonard or Ryan Chesley before July 1.)

(Also, recognizing that Vancouver doesn't have a ton of cap space, they likely couldn't take on much salary. And I'm assuming there would be no interest in getting Ethan Bear back.)

May be a guy like Chase Priskie? He's an excellent AHL defenseman, puckmoving RHD, but he's 28 and isn't likely to ever be very successful in the NHL.

I don't think the Canucks are getting a young center with top 6 upside for Hoglander though. I do like the guy but I wouldn't be giving that up. Return might depend on what the situation with Miller really is.

If Washington thinks that Hoglander is a better fit for the team, they could offer Eller to them? Honestly, I wish the Pens still had him. Eller and Pettersson to the Canucks seems like the perfect match for a Hoglander+1st return.

 

[Random schmoe]

I don't think the Canucks are getting a young center with top 6 upside for Hoglander though. I do like the guy but I wouldn't be giving that up. Return might depend on what the situation with Miller really is.

If Washington thinks that Hoglander is a better fit for the team, they could offer Eller to them? Honestly, I wish the Pens still had him. Eller and Pettersson to the Canucks seems like the perfect match for a Hoglander+1st return.

I completely agree. That was why I suggested something else of significance would have to come back to the Caps with Hoglander to pull that off.

I personally don't feel like Hoglander would help the Caps enough to even consider weakening their current team. And, obviously, it takes two to tango, so Vancouver wouldn't accept a junk offer.

 

[Rowlet]

CBJ Assistant GM was at the Canucks game

 

[VanillaCoke]

Hopefully for Olivier and not Provorov but I'm not holding my breath

 

[Indy18]

Hopefully for Olivier and not Provorov but I'm not holding my breath

We are in contract talks with Olivier and he wants to be here. I don't think he's going to be on the block.