Weekes: Caps, Pens, CBJ have inquired into Hoglander

[Rowlet]

Does Vancouver think they need a replacement forward in the return or would they be content with a organizational depth player as a fill in?

No, just a defenseman

 

[seafoam]

I don’t understand the obsession with this guy. He’s a 25-35 point player who potted 24 goals last year while shooting 8% above his career average.

He’s filler.

 

[Lawzy]

I don’t understand the obsession with this guy. He’s a 25-35 point player who potted 24 goals last year while shooting 8% above his career average.

He’s filler.

Likely because all 24 of those goals (and all his points) were at even strength which places him among the best even strength goal scorers last year. They probably have (incorrectly) made the leap in logic that if the kid gets PP1 time he'll explode. Spoiler alert: Hoglander is terrible on the PP.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I don’t understand the obsession with this guy. He’s a 25-35 point player who potted 24 goals last year while shooting 8% above his career average.

He’s filler.

He's 23 and has only played 3ish full seasons. Wouldn't necessarily call him a finished product.

 

[StreetHawk]

Surprised Allvin extended him with all of the ups and downs Hoglander has had with being able to play within Tocchet's system. If they can use him to land a Dman, they'd pull the trigger on that.

 

[RussianRifle27]

He needs to be on a team that doesn’t have a shit coach, so Pittsburgh wouldn’t be a good landing spot for him.

 

[Turin]

Surprised Allvin extended him with all of the ups and downs Hoglander has had with being able to play within Tocchet's system. If they can use him to land a Dman, they'd pull the trigger on that.

Ryan Graves for you

 

[nergish]

I don’t understand the obsession with this guy. He’s a 25-35 point player who potted 24 goals last year while shooting 8% above his career average.

He’s filler.

The guy is very skilled, and a fierce competitor. Would be quite dominant offensively if he weren't undersized. Sometimes plays a bit dirty to get the edge physically, which he might not have to do if he were bigger.

He shows elements of a Brad Marchand-lite, but just hasn't shown enough of the upside to fully make up for some of the boneheaded plays and defensive lapses.

 

[biturbo19]

I agree that Hoglander is worth more than a 3rd and some bullshit like Nieto.

That being said, Petts is our last real trade piece, and I'd be really pissed off if we didn't at least get a late 1st for him. I think the problem is Pettersson and Hoglander are a little far apart in terms of trade value and I don't see a scenario here where Pens extract full value for Petts. Much less under Dubas, who is a complete dipshit.

Me personally I'm much more interested in Lekkerimaki.

This is the real trick. I don't think Hoglander alone lands you one of the top few "rental defencemen" on the market. There's obviously an "add" from Vancouver's side. The question is...what is it? And it's complicated by the fact that i'm not convinced Dubas has a mandate to basically just blow up the team for the final years of Crosby, Malkin, Letang. So i'd think there's a strong likelihood the "return" on Pettersson is seen as "compromised" by wanting back a young, but "right now" player in the deal.

As far as Lekkerimaki, everyone would be much more interested. But i don't know if that's a piece they'd do in a "rental" deal at this point, given what he's shown...and how important he might be as a cheap Boeser replacement contingency, and just the team's cap situation in general.

I'm not personally that high on Lekky, but i think the more likely option would be just...a 1st and some smaller addition, plus some cap to balance.


But Dubas and whatever his mandate is, could play a big role in this. Especially if he's poking around on Hoglander in the first place. And he's very much a "Dubas type acquisition".

Likely because all 24 of those goals (and all his points) were at even strength which places him among the best even strength goal scorers last year. They probably have (incorrectly) made the leap in logic that if the kid gets PP1 time he'll explode. Spoiler alert: Hoglander is terrible on the PP.

This is the real kicker.

He just doesn't see the ice well enough, doesn't read the play well enough, and isn't a good enough passer to be a good PP guy. And he's too small to be a true "Net Front Presence" either, even though he's absolutely at his best around the crease area at even strength.

But there's still clear value in a guy who can generate some significant, if streaky/sporadic offense from the Bottom-6 at Even Strength.

Ryan Graves for you

I'll once again be yelled at by fellow Canucks fans for it, but it's said it before, and i'll say it again...i think Graves is exactly the sort of "buy low" player who has found real success with this particular Canucks coaching staff with Tocchet and Foote.

That contract is terrible...but, it's also cheaper than Zadorov, and i think is a similar sort of player to Zaddy and Myers et al. Guys who play a really "aggressive" game and need to just keep it simple and calm things down a bit. They've worked wonders with a bunch of these guys, as well as plenty of lesser versions of that style.


I doubt it happens, because that contract is just too long...but hey, everyone's focusing on the obvious with Marcus Pettersson and that's probably fair. I'd be curious what a Graves for Hoglander trade would actually look like though. Particularly if the Canucks brass do have a little bit of instant buyers remorse on that extension. Same length of contract term, the money isn't that far off that it couldn't be tweaked somehow.

I'd think the big sticking point is...if Canucks are taking on that Graves deal, the Penguins are adding at least some sort of "plus". Which might be a really tough sell for a team in Pittsburgh's situation. Unless there's some prospect in the system that Rutherford loves still, or something.

 

[Turin]

This is the real trick. I don't think Hoglander alone lands you one of the top few "rental defencemen" on the market. There's obviously an "add" from Vancouver's side. The question is...what is it? And it's complicated by the fact that i'm not convinced Dubas has a mandate to basically just blow up the team for the final years of Crosby, Malkin, Letang. So i'd think there's a strong likelihood the "return" on Pettersson is seen as "compromised" by wanting back a young, but "right now" player in the deal.

As far as Lekkerimaki, everyone would be much more interested. But i don't know if that's a piece they'd do in a "rental" deal at this point, given what he's shown...and how important he might be as a cheap Boeser replacement contingency, and just the team's cap situation in general.

I'm not personally that high on Lekky, but i think the more likely option would be just...a 1st and some smaller addition, plus some cap to balance.


But Dubas and whatever his mandate is, could play a big role in this. Especially if he's poking around on Hoglander in the first place. And he's very much a "Dubas type acquisition".



This is the real kicker.

He just doesn't see the ice well enough, doesn't read the play well enough, and isn't a good enough passer to be a good PP guy. And he's too small to be a true "Net Front Presence" either, even though he's absolutely at his best around the crease area at even strength.

But there's still clear value in a guy who can generate some significant, if streaky/sporadic offense from the Bottom-6 at Even Strength.



I'll once again be yelled at by fellow Canucks fans for it, but it's said it before, and i'll say it again...i think Graves is exactly the sort of "buy low" player who has found real success with this particular Canucks coaching staff with Tocchet and Foote.

That contract is terrible...but, it's also cheaper than Zadorov, and i think is a similar sort of player to Zaddy and Myers et al. Guys who play a really "aggressive" game and need to just keep it simple and calm things down a bit. They've worked wonders with a bunch of these guys, as well as plenty of lesser versions of that style.


I doubt it happens, because that contract is just too long...but hey, everyone's focusing on the obvious with Marcus Pettersson and that's probably fair. I'd be curious what a Graves for Hoglander trade would actually look like though. Particularly if the Canucks brass do have a little bit of instant buyers remorse on that extension. Same length of contract term, the money isn't that far off that it couldn't be tweaked somehow.

I'd think the big sticking point is...if Canucks are taking on that Graves deal, the Penguins are adding at least some sort of "plus". Which might be a really tough sell for a team in Pittsburgh's situation. Unless there's some prospect in the system that Rutherford loves still, or something.

I don’t think it’s unbelievable that Graves could do better elsewhere. He was pretty good in Jersey in the right situation. But it’s absolutely not a fit in Pittsburgh and I would love to stop watching him get paired with Letang or Karlsson ever which is just oil and water.

I’d do Graves and a 2nd for Hog pretty easily.

 

[biturbo19]

I don’t think it’s unbelievable that Graves could do better elsewhere. He was pretty good in Jersey in the right situation. But it’s absolutely not a fit in Pittsburgh and I would love to stop watching him get paired with Letang or Karlsson ever which is just oil and water.

I’d do Graves and a 2nd for Hog pretty easily.

To me, this is the biggest thing with the Graves "disaster". It feels like the Penguins signed him to be this "big, physical, steady, stay-at-home defenceman" to partner with one of Letang/Karlsson. And that's just...not at all what he's ever been. I still think that in a better fit, he could get back to that sort of Top-4D role he grew into with NJD. Especially in the right sort of system. At worst, i think he's still on par or better with Soucy and maybe even Myers, in the sort of collection of #4/5D.


I don't even really mind something like that as the basis of a deal, personally. Even if it's risky as heck. Pens 2nd would be a good trade chip to make further moves toward the deadline.

Problems would be...i think there'd probably also have to be some additional salary dumped the other way, even if the Canucks can operate into LTIR for this year. He's also a very "partner sensitive" defenceman, and i'm not confident the match is there in Vancouver without additional moves. Also, i think at this point, they'd prefer a RHD in the short term. Though in the long-term, LHD probably makes more sense, with Willander coming.

Also just...no way of gauging what Ruthervin think of Graves and if they're nearly as much of a believer as i still am.