Canucks & NHL News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | Hold up, let Chef Allvin cook.

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Last one was over 1,000. Continue here. Use this thread to discuss league-wide trade and free agent rumours. The Around the League thread is for coaching changes, league news, SCF chat, etc.

Vector's NHL Transaction Tracker.

Some Important Off-Season Dates

Buyout Period: June 27th, evening; players without NMCs must be placed on unconditional waivers 24 hours prior (another buyout period opens if a team has a player file for arbitration). This buyout period ends June 30th. 8:00pm.
Team-Elected Arbitration: June 26th, evening
NHL Awards: June 27th
Draft Day 01: June 28th
Draft Day 02: June 29th
Qualifying Offer Date: June 30th
Free Agency Opens: July 1st, 9am PST
Summer Development Camp: July 1st-4th
Player-Elected Arbitration: July 5th
Young Stars Classic Tournament: Sep. 13th-16th

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[MS]

Guentzel and Toffoli are pure scorers. Guentzel is just better at it. What you're applying to one should apply to the other, just to a lesser degree.

One is a pure scorer who moves the needle and is an impact player. Changes our team dynamic.

The other is a pure scorer who doesn't move the needle and is almost guaranteed to be a cap travesty.

Mikheyev lacked top6 talent before he blew out his knee.

He looked just fine on Pettersson's line last year despite playing on 1 leg. 25 ESP in 46 games. 0

You're not getting Joshua on a cheapish contract.

$3-ish million for him would be cheap for what he brought last year.

When you bring up a top upside unicorn like Burrows as a comparable for Joshua, it is far fetched.

Joshua was one of our best players from November onward last year. You are totally failing to grasp how good he was and the impact he made. No, he almost certainly isn't Burrows. But there are lots of other examples of players who took a step up and then sustained that level.

Just curious, was Toffoli trending upward last year? How was Boeser trending last year, remember?

Toffoli is 31. Boeser was 26.

Toffoli hit a wall last year. His skating which was never good looked noticeably worse. His production took a nosedive.

Like, we know what happens to these 30-32 year old 50-60 point scorers when they get term as a UFA. It turns out terribly basically every single time with Mats Zuccarello as the exception that proves the rule.

If you removed the players from the argument, I would be less comfortable spending big on a recent trend than I would a consistent trend line over many years. Your mileage clearly varies, from myself and the team (apparently).

If you're talking about two guys who are the same age, yes.

When you're talking about a guy who is 31 and started showing big red flags last year, no.

 

[Hodgy]

1st for a Kuzmenko dump

it was a first for Lindholm.

 

[BimJenning]

Anyone who is upset about losing a 2nd in this deal is insane.

I just wasn't a fan of the signing to begin with, so it seems like poor pro scouting to lose a second on. I didn't think we needed another middle 6 winger at $4.5M with a NTC. Then again, he probably bounces back to score 40 points and PK and looks a hell of a lot better next year

 

[Szechwan]

Dominooooos.

What do y'all think happens next? I assume this will facilitate either Zadorov or Joshua

 

[SelltheTeamFrancesco]

Guentzel:
-Canucks have penciled him in as their dream acquisition
-Canucks won't go to 10m AAV
-thinks 7y/9.5m

Mikheyev:
-Jake Walman trade will be an outlier
-a bunch of teams were surprised that was the cost
-teams knew or had an inkling Walman was available but there was no bidding war for him
-everyone was surprised by the trade
-Mikheyev will require a similar sweetener as Walman
-enough teams are moderately intrigued by him that there's a deal to be had

Plan B Targets:
-might circle back to the Martin Necas conversation
-doesn't think they are on the list of last 3-5 trade partners

Silovs:
-Canucks trying to preserve every little bit of capspace
-had suggested a team might offer-sheet him
-would be in the 3rd pick offer-sheet range
-thinks part of the problem is order of operations: Guentzel, Zadorov, then Silovs

Zadorov:
-interest in there
-calls this a giant game of chicken
-doesn't think most NHL teams few him as a top-pair defenceman
-thinks he gets probably a 6y/4.75m contract

Dillon/Edmondson:
-can see Dillon
-can see the Canucks being in this market and range

What team does? I like Zadorov but top pair come on. Also I would do $4.75*6 years.

 

[Soups On]

What idiot team does. I like Zadorov but top pair come on. Also I would do $4.75*6 years.

He showed us he's a legit top 4 guy and he can skate the puck very well. 4.75x6 years is an easy yes.

 

[Regress2TheMeme]

Mikheyev has to go down as a miss for this management group, but I give them half a point back for not doubling down. Dickenson worked out really well for Chicago so it makes sense that theyre down to roll the dice for another 2nd rounder. Mikheyev will probably be much better next season after a full summer of training.

 

[StickShift]

If they aren’t going to re-sign Lindholm, and if they decide to move on from Zadorov or Joshua too—it would be nice to see them try and recoup some late draft picks for their signing rights.

 

[Vector]

All it takes is Dan Milstein, a bottle of vodka, and a not-so-subtle threat that it would be a shame if something happened to his other knee and Mikheyev will waive.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

All it takes is Dan Milstein, a bottle of vodka, and a not-so-subtle threat that it would be a shame if something happened to his other knee and Mikheyev will waive.

Send Tonya Harding to do the other knee.

 

[StickShift]

Wonder too if they would consider or if there is even a market to move another roster player to recoup draft capital.

Garland, Hoglander, etc.

 

[Bleach Clean]

One is a pure scorer who moves the needle and is an impact player. Changes our team dynamic.

The other is a pure scorer who doesn't move the needle and is almost guaranteed to be a cap travesty.

He looked just fine on Pettersson's line last year despite playing on 1 leg. 25 ESP in 46 games. 0

$3-ish million for him would be cheap for what he brought last year.

Joshua was one of our best players from November onward last year. You are totally failing to grasp how good he was and the impact he made. No, he almost certainly isn't Burrows. But there are lots of other examples of players who took a step up and then sustained that level.

Toffoli is 31. Boeser was 26.

Toffoli hit a wall last year. His skating which was never good looked noticeably worse. His production took a nosedive.

Like, we know what happens to these 30-32 year old 50-60 point scorers when they get term as a UFA. It turns out terribly basically every single time with Mats Zuccarello as the exception that proves the rule.

If you're talking about two guys who are the same age, yes.

When you're talking about a guy who is 31 and started showing big red flags last year, no.

Boeser is soft skill, just like Toffoli and Guentzel. This 'moving the needle' colloquialism doesn't change that mode for each player. The fact that Guentzel does the same thing better shouldn't have you change your tune in such a drastic fashion.

Joshua is getting $4m+ in FA and that is beyond the scope of what I would want the Canucks to pay for a 3rd line talent. Even one that scores at a top6 ES rate for 1 year.

Of course there is risk with Toffoli dropping off in his mid 30s, it happens with every player, but the height at which he has to drop off from, and who he is likely able to play with, mitigate a lot of that on a 3 year deal. If he gets 4 years, it gets dicey.

All told, there is a distinct difference in the type of player you think is a top6 solution, to what actually is a top6 solution. Toffoli isn't perfect, but he's a good plan B for what is available. That doesn't change with supposition like red flags, walls, needle moving or any other saying brought to bear.

But let's hope the better version in Guentzel is secured and this is all for not.

 

[ziploc]

Wonder too if they would consider or if there is even a market to move another roster player to recoup draft capital.

Garland, Hoglander, etc.

I think we are trying to compete, not rebuild.

 

[credulous]

not a bad price to dump mikheyev but i hate it if this is just to facilitate a zadorov signing. i haven't forgotten his 10 seasons of being a bottom pairing defender

 

[Hodgy]

it was a first for Lindholm.

@Bleach Clean , you realize the irony of you laughing at my intentional mischaracterization of the trade in response to your obvious initial mischaracterization of the trade? I was of course being facetious.

 

[Donuts]

Hope he finds his game again and stay healthy mik

 

[StickShift]

I think we are trying to compete, not rebuild.

Unless they think they can replace one of those players with a better player on the UFA market.

 

[SelltheTeamFrancesco]

I like the trade don’t get me wrong but we are never drafting in the second round again are we ?

 

[ForecheckBackcheck]

Would you do 4 years x $3M for Joshua?

Would he?

 

[alternate]

Would you do 4 years x $3M for Joshua?

Would he?

We would.

He would not.

 

[Nuckles]

Ok I'm bored again. Do something else

 

[olafsson]

Waive, damnit

 

[Nuckles]

Waive, damnit

He did

https://x.com/i/web/status/1806144284032459083

 

[TruGr1t]

Approx. $20M give or take in cap space, so you can do Zadorov at $4.5M and Guentzel at $9.5M for $14M and have $5M to sign Silovs and do some other stuff. That does only leave you kind of limited to address the right-side defense though.

 

[bossram]

Boeser is soft skill, just like Toffoli and Guentzel. This 'moving the needle' colloquialism doesn't change that mode for each player. The fact that Guentzel does the same thing better shouldn't have you change your tune in such a drastic fashion.

Joshua is getting $4m+ in FA and that is beyond the scope of what I would want the Canucks to pay for a 3rd line talent. Even one that scores at a top6 ES rate for 1 year.

Of course there is risk with Toffoli dropping off in his mid 30s, it happens with every player, but the height at which he has to drop off from, and who he is likely able to play with, mitigate a lot of that on a 3 year deal. If he gets 4 years, it gets dicey.

All told, there is a distinct difference in the type of player you think is a top6 solution, to what actually is a top6 solution. Toffoli isn't perfect, but he's a good plan B for what is available. That doesn't change with supposition like red flags, walls, needle moving or any other saying brought to bear.

But let's hope the better version in Guentzel is secured and this is all for not.

Boeser isn't "soft" skill. He's one of the more effective forecheckers and wall battlers on the team. This is a fundamental misunderstanding of how he plays.

Guentzel is clearly in a different category than Toffoli. He's a legitimate top-of-the-lineup player. A star player. Toffoli is not. Guentzel is also a proven playoff performer. Toffoli is older and getting even slower. He already showed a big decline throughout this season. His skating looks worse than it did with VAN, and a large chunk of his production came in the first ~20 games with NJ when they had an unsustainably hot PP, after which his production dropped off a cliff. They're not comparable at all.