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Diamonddog01
Diamond in the rough
Good lord you come across as an ass. We have an owner who potentially didn't fire Boudreau due to a reluctance to pay three coaches at the same time. As a franchise there has been a general avoidance of buyouts and even retention and you honestly believe FAQ will agree to a 20M buyout?
I think the best way to use that cap space is to get someone who has high AVG, but short on term on a cap strapped team. Should be able to get these players for free or future considerations.
Examples:
Alec Martinez (1 y 5.5M)
Marco Scandella (1y 3.275M)
Nikita Zadorov (1 y 3.75M)
Matt Grezelyck (1 y 3.7M)
So in theory, we should be able to improve our defenseman without affecting our long-term cap sheet.
A lot of the OEL discussion here seems to being phrased around buying him out now or not buying him out at all, and not looking at the option of buying him out another year. Looking at a buyout calculator, the longer you can delay buying OEL, the softer the buyout penalty will be. The biggest benefit to buying him out now is the 2023-24 season gives the biggest single season boost, with his cap hit practically disappearing for the year.
Personally I don't like that. Is this a make or break year where it's vital for one season only to have an extra $7M cap hit? That's something you do if you need to go all in, like a Toronto. Or maybe if you can create a 1 year Mats Sundin type situation. The goal for the Canucks is to make the playoffs first which they haven't done yet, and with how weak the West is that should be achievable next season with OEL.
In my opinion, an OEL buyout should be saved for when you absolutely need that cap space to resign an existing player like Pettersson or Kuzmenko. So the thing with a buyout now is if you do it to spend that money you're probably locking yourself into some multi-year contracts, that will now be on the books when the OEL penalty hurts and you need to resign guys. That's a dangerous situation.
Ideally, while we're never going to get value for OEL's actual cap hit, the best situation would be if he can rebound from his injuries and be an Olli Maatta like defensive partner for Hronek. That at least creates some value for the team, and you kick the buyout option down the line until it's absolutely necessary. At the very least with no emergency situation right now you give him the season to show if he can rebound or not.
For the record these are the capfriendly.com calculator numbers:
Personally I don't like that. Is this a make or break year where it's vital for one season only to have an extra $7M cap hit? That's something you do if you need to go all in, like a Toronto. Or maybe if you can create a 1 year Mats Sundin type situation. The goal for the Canucks is to make the playoffs first which they haven't done yet, and with how weak the West is that should be achievable next season with OEL.
In my opinion, an OEL buyout should be saved for when you absolutely need that cap space to resign an existing player like Pettersson or Kuzmenko. So the thing with a buyout now is if you do it to spend that money you're probably locking yourself into some multi-year contracts, that will now be on the books when the OEL penalty hurts and you need to resign guys. That's a dangerous situation.
Ideally, while we're never going to get value for OEL's actual cap hit, the best situation would be if he can rebound from his injuries and be an Olli Maatta like defensive partner for Hronek. That at least creates some value for the team, and you kick the buyout option down the line until it's absolutely necessary. At the very least with no emergency situation right now you give him the season to show if he can rebound or not.
For the record these are the capfriendly.com calculator numbers:
| SEASON | BUYOUT COST | POST-BUYOUT EARNINGS | SAVINGS |
|
| ||
| 2023-24 | $2,416,667 | $2,416,667 | $8,083,333 | $146,667 | $20,000 | ||
| 2024-25 | $2,416,667 | $2,416,667 | $5,583,333 | $2,346,667 | $320,000 | ||
| 2025-26 | $2,416,667 | $2,416,667 | $2,833,333 | $4,766,667 | $650,000 | ||
| 2026-27 | $2,416,667 | $2,416,667 | $2,833,333 | $4,766,667 | $650,000 | ||
| 2027-28 | $2,416,667 | $2,416,667 | -$2,416,667 | $2,126,667 | $290,000 | ||
| 2028-29 | $2,416,667 | $2,416,667 | -$2,416,667 | $2,126,667 | $290,000 | ||
| 2029-30 | $2,416,667 | $2,416,667 | -$2,416,667 | $2,126,667 | $290,000 | ||
| 2030-31 | $2,416,667 | $2,416,667 | -$2,416,667 | $2,126,667 | $290,000 | ||
| 2024-25 | $2,055,556 | $2,055,556 | $5,944,444 | $2,028,889 | $276,667 | ||
| 2025-26 | $2,055,556 | $2,055,556 | $3,194,444 | $4,448,889 | $606,667 | ||
| 2026-27 | $2,055,556 | $2,055,556 | $3,194,444 | $4,448,889 | $606,667 | ||
| 2027-28 | $2,055,556 | $2,055,556 | -$2,055,556 | $1,808,889 | $246,667 | ||
| 2028-29 | $2,055,556 | $2,055,556 | -$2,055,556 | $1,808,889 | $246,667 | ||
| 2029-30 | $2,055,556 | $2,055,556 | -$2,055,556 | $1,808,889 | $246,667 | ||
| 2025-26 | $1,750,000 | $1,750,000 | $3,500,000 | $4,180,000 | $570,000 | ||
| 2026-27 | $1,750,000 | $1,750,000 | $3,500,000 | $4,180,000 | $570,000 | ||
| 2027-28 | $1,750,000 | $1,750,000 | -$1,750,000 | $1,540,000 | $210,000 | ||
| 2028-29 | $1,750,000 | $1,750,000 | -$1,750,000 | $1,540,000 | $210,000 | ||
| 2026-27 | $1,750,000 | $1,750,000 | $3,500,000 | $4,180,000 | $570,000 | ||
| 2027-28 | $1,750,000 | $1,750,000 | -$1,750,000 | $1,540,000 | $210,000 |
We have an owner who potentially didn't fire Boudreau due to a reluctance to pay three coaches at the same time
But he did?
LOL
I don't think I'm more of an ass than somebody who's trying to shut down completely valid and realistic discussions. Saying something isn't even remotely realistic when everyone in the media is talking about it... unless you're working for the Canucks... like how do you know that?
so give up stuff to get meh replacements? (outside Griz.. i like him)
martinez is support, what you get out of martinez for a push is not likely to be any better than what OEL can give you and for me personally doesn't make it worth it versus when the 4.5 dead hits happen
same with scandella
same with zadorov - if zadorov stopped trying to play like freaking andersson and went back to his nasty hitting style ***maybe*** - but he is meh
Diamonddog01
Diamond in the rough
Yeah, because the pressure and media issues reached a breaking point. Why do you think it took so long? I guess you missed the point where I said imo. Perhaps you should look up what that means as your reading comprehension is noticeably poor. So after going on about the Canucks media in derogatory fashion previously now we should take their discussion of remote possibilities realistic? Mkay.
Also something that hasn't been put in consideration, if we have a veteran 3C hole going into the next season that's something that you can fill at the trade deadline when cap doesn't really matter. The team can probably make due giving the guys we have a chance to start the season, and if in February 2024 we're looking like a playoff team and it's still a hole then you make a trade. Nick Bjudstad for example only cost a 3rd round pick. That's a much safer option than try to create cap space and committing to a long term deal in the summer.
I honestly don’t care about the cap semantics of whether it is/isn’t good value to buy OEL out.
What I care about is :
1) from a team-building perspective you have to cut out the cancer on the roster to move forward with the right people and getting this done trumps ‘value’ and ‘asset management’.
2) as a fan, I never want to see this useless lump dress for the team again. He’s a stinky lingering fart from the Benning era which I want to forget ever happened.
Obviously LTIR is better and if they can do that, hallelujah. But otherwise, sign me up for a buyout at the first opportunity.
What I care about is :
1) from a team-building perspective you have to cut out the cancer on the roster to move forward with the right people and getting this done trumps ‘value’ and ‘asset management’.
2) as a fan, I never want to see this useless lump dress for the team again. He’s a stinky lingering fart from the Benning era which I want to forget ever happened.
Obviously LTIR is better and if they can do that, hallelujah. But otherwise, sign me up for a buyout at the first opportunity.
Look Hodgson, it's clear you just don't understand the economic end, but if you can't give an honest assessment of OELs performance, why not just make a thread that says "I'm smarter than you" and you can masturbate in there?
Do you enjoy being talked down to as much as you do it to everyone else? This is an open forum, not an ivy league debate where you need to paint your opposition as intellectually incompetent at the beginning of every post.
Do you enjoy being talked down to as much as you do it to everyone else? This is an open forum, not an ivy league debate where you need to paint your opposition as intellectually incompetent at the beginning of every post.
Interesting - thanks for providing the chart.
2023/2024 is a massive cap difference between retaining OEL and buyout. That's nearly 7M in savings.
If we buyout OEL next year, the difference would be 2M v 2.3M (year 2), 4.5M v 4.8M (years 3 and 4), and then 1.8M v 2.1M (years 5-8). The differences are negligible on a cap sheet.
The thing is... we absolutely need the cap space now unless Allvin can work his magic on Boeser + Garland trade and hope for LTIR for Pearson/OEL.
Honest assessment of OEL's performance?
What are you talking about?
He was trash this year. Absolutely horrendous.
He's being outplayed by Wolanin and Briesbois... guys that are making minimum deals this year.
Where have I not been honest with OEL's performance? Can you please point out where I have been incorrect about OEL's performance? I honestly would like to see where you disagree.
Agreed.
People aren't considering the cancer on the roster factor. That shit is more noise and more baggage for this team.
It's always better to have a clean cut. I think it's a bad bet on the organization to hope and pray OEL returns to "form". Even if he returns to form, he's an overpaid #4 defenseman making 7M.
If we are serious about building a new culture based on meritocracy, OEL needs to be gone next year.
Nucker101
Foundational Poster
- Apr 2, 2013
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krutovsdonut
eeyore
- Sep 25, 2016
- 18,105
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no, we have an owner who uses or withholds money to get his own way and/or punish hockey ops.
Regarding your 1st point, how do you explain Colorado keeping an ageing, regressing, overpaid bottom pair defenseman in Johnson who had been there for one of the worst NHL seasons in history?
Nucker101
Foundational Poster
- Apr 2, 2013
- 22,551
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I don't think EJ has ever had a season as bad as OEL just had. He's closer to an Edler during his last season or two here than he is to OEL.
krutovsdonut
eeyore
- Sep 25, 2016
- 18,105
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i think after the jt miller thing that maybe we need to reconsider our ability to identify cancer on a roster from the outside.
i think you may be confusing ivy league debating with dan ackroyd debating jane curtin.
i think you may be confusing ivy league debating with dan ackroyd debating jane curtin.
Have you seen OEL play this year?
Any defenseman on that list is leaps and bounds better than OEL.
credulous
Registered User
- Nov 18, 2021
- 4,419
- 6,005
i dunno about that. miller was quite literally unplayable at 5v5 early in the season and his body language was atrocious. there's the well known clip of pettersson rolling his eyes on the bench as miller has another tantrum and the other well known clip of pettersson imitating one of miller's tantrums
he's been very good recently but something was definitely off for october/november at the very least
Nucker101
Foundational Poster
- Apr 2, 2013
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Not sure how OEL is a cancer. I don’t think a broken overpaid player fits the cancer label. I’ve always thought of that label being used on guys who can divide a locker room
I like how the dude says I didn't give OEL an honest assessment but then doesn't provide any evidence or detail to support his claim.
It's hard to have valuable hockey discussions these days...
krutovsdonut
eeyore
- Sep 25, 2016
- 18,105
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we have no idea what any of that signified or whether miller was reacting to or initiating the situation. going back to the bubble season, jt miller's impact on team chemistry is a mystery wrapped in an enigma.
sting101
Registered User
- Feb 8, 2012
- 17,807
- 17,322
Have you ever been in a group project where someone who does nothing gets the same grade as you?
It's that sort of thing. It doesn't mean he's a locker room cancer... he's a cancer to the cap sheet and the meritocracy culture that Toch is trying to build.
OEL is fine if he was making $2-3M. Him at $7M might actually be the difference of making/missing the playoffs.
m9
m9
- Jan 23, 2010
- 25,107
- 15,230
Maybe cancer isn't the right term for OEL, but it's certainly not ideal to have one of the highest-paid members of the team provide so little value. From a human standpoint if you are working next to a guy making 6 or 7 times what he should be there's sure to be some resentment in the building.
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