Canucks News, Rumours, & Fantasy GM | Part 2

[JohnHodgson]

Given Vancouver’s stated desire to be competitive—the only way a JT Miller trade makes sense is if they are flipping those picks immediately for someone else. Perhaps a younger player who hasn’t quite broken through. Similar to the Dach trade that you mentioned.

My problem with that logic—why doesn’t the hypothetical team that is acquiring Miller go after that young C themselves?

The other issue is what sort of Cs are out there that even fit that flip-framework that would actually be available? It must be someone that the Canucks professional scouting are confident can make that sort of jump—and that the selling team is comfortable jettisoning. Not sure who fits that profile.

All hypotheticals of course but the young C would not be on the same tier as Miller.

For example, if your Pittsburgh and gunning for the cup, would you go after Miller or Kotkaniemi? It's a no brainer that you go after the way better player.

Some players that could make sense:

Sam Bennett (If FLA wants to make Lundell 2C and recoup some picks back from the Chiarot/Giroux deals)
Jesperi Kotkaniemi (if CAR gets knocked out in the first round... there's going to be huge urgency to imrove the team... they have the cap space and assets to do it like KK + 1st for Miller)
Jack Roslovic (not a great option as a 2C but potentially viable)
Shane Pinto (no idea why Ottawa would want to give him up but 2 picks for Pinto could change their minds)
Barrett Hayton (no idea why Arizona would move him but idk lol)
Cody Glass?

Options are extremely limited and most don't make sense.

 

[The Iron Goalie]

If we do sign a euro free agent or two, I'd love to pickup SHL free agent Hardy Haman Aktell (24yr old 6'4 LD). He's really come into his own this season, and has been a dominant two-way force for the top ranked Vaxjo Lakers. Been very impressed with his play in playoff so far.

Regular season - 51GP 9G (2PPG) 27A (12PPA) 36PTS (14PPP) 22PIM 98SOG 33Hits 34BLK +23(+42/-19) in 19:09TOI (15:435v5, 1:58PP, 1:28PK). 59%CF% 60%CCF% 60%FF% 59%CFF%.

 

[ahmon]

If they sign Bear close to $4M another mistake like signing Boeser.

 

[JohnHodgson]

If they sign Bear close to $4M another mistake like signing Boeser.

'There's no universe that Bear is getting that much... at least I hope anyway.

Bear's worth $3M on a short term deal (2-3 yrs) if I have to guess.

If they believe in Bear as a long-term partner for Hughes, I would give him a 3 yrs x 3M per deal.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

'There's no universe that Bear is getting that much... at least I hope anyway.

Bear's worth $3M on a short term deal (2-3 yrs) if I have to guess.

If they believe in Bear as a long-term partner for Hughes, I would give him a 3 yrs x 3M per deal.

I'm not even sold on him at all, at this point..Seems to be so wildly inconsistent...

Seems like a# 4-5 at this point.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

Bear at 3 mil? Bear at 4 mil?

What on earth justifies giving a bottom pairing defenseman that much? Come on guys. I know we witnessed 8-9 years of overpaying meh players, but it doesn't mean we have to continue the tradition.

 

[JohnHodgson]

Bear at 3 mil? Bear at 4 mil?

What on earth justifies giving a bottom pairing defenseman that much? Come on guys. I know we witnessed 8-9 years of overpaying meh players, but it doesn't mean we have to continue the tradition.

Plenty of good bottom pairing guys make 2-3M.

Are you stuck in 2015?

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

Plenty of good bottom pairing guys make 2-3M.

Are you stuck in 2015?

Ethan Bear is an average bottom pairing guy who is average in every aspect to his game but still vulnerable to having mental lapses and turning the puck over. You do not pay these guys term and anything near 3mil- especially when we are in a cap crunch and needing cap to pursue a legitimate option in the top 4.

 

[credulous]

i think bear is gonna get paid. what's the alternative? run out hronek, mcward and johansson on the right side? bring back myers?

in an ideal world they trade bear for some kind of pick but they don't have anyone who can replace him

 

[m9]

I just don't want to pay for Bear's skillset. He's a redundant asset on a team that has puck-movers like Hughes & Hronek and to a lesser extent the depth guys like OEL/Rathbone/Wolanin. This team needs to take that $2-4 million they have ear-marked for him and invest it into a similar level guy who maybe won't put up the points but he can be a stabilizing piece in the defensive zone and on the PK.

If we are to learn one thing from the OEL trade and the failed EP/Miller/Horvat experiment it should be that overpaying for redundant assets is how the sum of the team's parts ends up lower than the talent level. You need to have complementary skillsets and the group can achieve much more than they show on paper. This team has been in "collecting players" mode for a decade instead of trying to build an actual hockey team. Enough.

 

[credulous]

I just don't want to pay for Bear's skillset. He's a redundant asset on a team that has puck-movers like Hughes & Hronek and to a lesser extent the depth guys like OEL/Rathbone/Wolanin. This team needs to take that $2-4 million they have ear-marked for him and invest it into a similar level guy who maybe won't put up the points but he can be a stabilizing piece in the defensive zone and on the PK.

problem is this player doesn't exist in free agency. maybe you sign justin holl for what you were going to pay bear but that's about the only option i see

if you have to trade for the player are you really going to find someone better than bear you can afford to pay for (in assets)?

 

[JohnHodgson]

Ethan Bear is an average bottom pairing guy who is average in every aspect to his game but still vulnerable to having mental lapses and turning the puck over. You do not pay these guys term and anything near 3mil- especially when we are in a cap crunch and needing cap to pursue a legitimate option in the top 4.

I'll paraphrase for you.

Ethan Bear is a pretty good bottom pairing defenseman that can step into a top 4 role and has proven to be an adequate partner for our franchise defenseman Quinn Hughes. He has 16 points in 56 games and a +7 on a bottom ten team.

He's arguably our best RD outside of Hronek.

2-3M for a depth defenseman is nothing these days.

problem is this player doesn't exist in free agency. maybe you sign justin holl for what you were going to pay bear but that's about the only option i see

if you have to trade for the player are you really going to find someone better than bear you can afford to pay for (in assets)?

Can't believe I'm agreeing with you but this is true.

With the amount we save, can we really find an adequate replacement that has "better skillset"?

People think this is NHL 23 and you can just sort players by OVR in free agency and sign better players to improve the roster.

That's now how real life works. Bear is a good stop-gap player that can eat valuable minutes at RD, a position that we desperately lack depth.

 

[m9]

problem is this player doesn't exist in free agency. maybe you sign justin holl for what you were going to pay bear but that's about the only option i see

if you have to trade for the player are you really going to find someone better than bear you can afford to pay for (in assets)?

You don't even need to find someone better than Bear, just a different skillset. Someone who doesn't make poor reads in the neutral/defensive zone like we've seen from Bear. Someone with the size/strength to clear the front of the net.

Maybe it's wishful thinking or maybe they need to hit the trade market, I don't know. I just know Ethan Bear isn't the answer to the question.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

problem is this player doesn't exist in free agency. maybe you sign justin holl for what you were going to pay bear but that's about the only option i see

Stecher at $1M is a better investment than Bear at anything more than $2M IMO.

 

[bossram]

You don't even need to find someone better than Bear, just a different skillset. Someone who doesn't make poor reads in the neutral/defensive zone like we've seen from Bear. Someone with the size/strength to clear the front of the net.

Maybe it's wishful thinking or maybe they need to hit the trade market, I don't know. I just know Ethan Bear isn't the answer to the question.

It is mostly wishful thinking. The Hughes-Bear combo has ran at 52+% xG, with most of their time occurring earlier with Boudreau when the team was performing at a worse overall level. This is pretty solid.

You're basically asking the team to find a better player, with a more coveted defensive skillset, who's also RH, and will come cheaper or at a similar price. This is very unrealistic. Who are the players in UFA that could fill this role? Basically Severson and Holl, that's it. And Severson isn't really the "different" skillet your asking for. Are either of these guys signing for less than $4M?

There's Connor Clifton down the list (who I actually quite like). But is he the guy for your top-pairing? And his UFA cost is probably going to exceed Bear too.

 

[dbaz]

right move is to walk away from bear. take the 3-4mil he wants, invest it towards a better rhd.

 

[rypper]

Bear's QO is 2.2m Offer him that and tell him prove it. He has arbitration rights, and his usage earlier in the season might affect that result but it's tapered off a bit and it's better then committing long term to him yet.

 

[VanillaCoke]

Bear doesn't move the needle and was a healthy scratch for one of the best franchises in the NHL like eight months ago.
He should be signing a cheap team friendly 2 yr deal or Alvin should ignore his agents calls.

 

[rypper]

This is pretty wild, the gap, and the fact that Schenn is still in second place.

 

[credulous]

Bear's QO is 2.2m Offer him that and tell him prove it. He has arbitration rights, and his usage earlier in the season might affect that result but it's tapered off a bit and it's better then committing long term to him yet.

he'll get 3m+ in arb. he gets minutes like a top 4 dman and he'll get paid like a top 4 dman as a result

the canucks have very few good options with bear. either they pay him or trade him and try to replace him. replacing him will be -- in my opinion -- extremely difficult given what's available in free agency and the general scarcity of right side dmen. if they move on from bear they are pretty much locked into bringing myers back unless they want to gamble on johansson or woo or someone taking a big step

 

[canuckking1]

Bear was a healthy scratch before coming here and had a few great games before being injured and having his play decline, and now he's worth 3-4 million? Gross

 

[JohnHodgson]

The stray bullets Ethan Bear is taking here is crazy.

People acting like the Canucks have one of the deepest D core in the league or something.

People don't realize that Bear's our 3rd/4th best defenseman? He's fine for his likely ask (2.5-3M).

Yall should probably get used to it - he's likely signing some sort of an extension.

 

[rypper]

he'll get 3m+ in arb. he gets minutes like a top 4 dman and he'll get paid like a top 4 dman as a result

the canucks have very few good options with bear. either they pay him or trade him and try to replace him. replacing him will be -- in my opinion -- extremely difficult given what's available in free agency and the general scarcity of right side dmen. if they move on from bear they are pretty much locked into bringing myers back unless they want to gamble on johansson or woo or someone taking a big step

Ethan Bear at 3m ish for one year wouldn't be the end of the world. Better then sticking with Myers or shopping in free agency.

 

[JohnHodgson]

Bear doesn't move the needle and was a healthy scratch for one of the best franchises in the NHL like eight months ago.
He should be signing a cheap team friendly 2 yr deal or Alvin should ignore his agents calls.

Most of the team doesn't move the needle.

Guess we should just get rid of everyone then?

Bear was also great for Carolina last year but Ok... weird rationale there.

Ethan Bear at 3m ish for one year wouldn't be the end of the world. Better then sticking with Myers or shopping in free agency.

One of the few reasonable takes here.

Even if we don't sign Bear to 2.5-3M, the money used to sign a replacement through UFA would likely not procure an upgrade.

I rather stick with the young defenseman with room to grow and has shown the ability to play effectively alongside our franchise defenseman in Hughes.

 

[credulous]

Bear was a healthy scratch before coming here and had a few great games before being injured and having his play decline, and now he's worth 3-4 million? Gross

that's just how arbitration works. you don't get to tell the arbitrator 'eye test'. it basically comes down to usage and points. his comparables are gonna be like cernak (5.2m), walman (3.4m), ristolainen (5.1m), anderson (4.125m) and siegenthaler (3.4m). he's not nearly the player any of those names are (well, ristolainen maybe) but it doesn't matter because the arbitrator isn't really allowed to make that judgement