Proposal: Canucks Buy out option vs retention Option (Discussion/Proposal requests)

[zcaptain]

Good Day Ladies, Gents and others.

As you are aware, the Vancouver Canucks are in Cap trouble

I would ask you to help with which way to go and any offers would be gratefully appreciated.

I have simplified the cap, just to shorten it................but IMO, within a acceptable variance.

Option #1.............Buyouts cost per year

Boeser...........................Annual Salary: $6,650,000...................Cap Savings $4,433,333 Cap Hit $2,216,667
Garland.........................Annual Salary: $4,950,000...................Cap Savings: $3,111,111 Cap Hit: $1,838,889
Beauvillier....................Annual Salary: $4,150,000...................Cap Savings $2,766,666 Cap Hit: $1,383,334

Option #2...............Trade with Retention

Boeser.................Annual Salary: $6,650,000 Minus buyout as Retention number ($2,216,667) = New salary of $4,433,333
Garland...............Annual Salary: $4,950,000 Minus buyout as Retention number ($1,838.889) = New salary of $3,111,111
Beauvillier..........Annual Salary: $4,150,000 minus buyout as Retention number ($1,383,334) = New salary of $2,766,666

Now, it would seem very clear that the Canucks should attempt to trade any one of this trio (maybe 2) using a number close to the retention Cap Hit and that with new numbers to the trading team all 3 players should be able to receive decent return values.

Boeser is 26 and had 55 points this year....comparables:
Garland is 27 and has averaged approx. a .63 points game scoring rate
Beauvillier is 25 and has averaged approx. a .50 points per game scoring rate

So who are the comparables, and what are their values in trade? According to NHL.COM

Boeser's comparables are: Blake Wheeler, Evgeny Kuznetsov, and Johnathon Huberdeau all at 55 points
Garland's comparables are: Sam Bennett, TJ Oshie, and Anders Lee, all who scored at an approx. .60 points per game
Beauvillier's Comparables are : Andrew Mangiapane, Anthony Cerilli, Johnathon Drouin, and Pavel Dorofeyev at .50 PPP

So, ok........this is important. I am not saying Boeser, garland, and beauvillier are as good as their comparables. I picked and chose, where I could. But even if they were close to some in production. Compare their salaries, and you will find that with their new adjusted salaries, they all have good salaries in comparison.

I suggest, that with retention as suggested, all have value, and should be close to their piers in value............whatever that may be.

My question is....does this adjustment give them value in your opinion, at the new rate?

I would suggest, with the new rates at their current production, Boeser should be valued as a late 1st round pick, and garland and Beauvillier, mid 2nd round picks...........again, that is with the retentions!

Guys! This is for my knowledge, and not a flaming exercise! But go ahead if you must!

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[Hoglander]

The common misconception here, is that these guys are bad players that nobody wants, and that Van would have to retain just so someone would take them for free. The reality is that the Canucks aren't giving them away, and are looking to get value back for them - but will have to retain a bit if they want to get that value.

They won't be buying them out, and I don't think they are stupid enough to pay someone to take them when they could just retain a relatively small amount and get assets. So yes, I think I'm answering your question by saying that by retaining a certain amount (probably like %25), they would get assets back.

 

[kmwtrucks]

in garlands case retaining for 3 years tends to be something most teams do not want to do. I could see retaining on boeser possible

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Boeser and Garland should have some value but not a ton. Beauviller will be the easiest to move seeing that he only has 1 year left.

Post bonus, you can probably find good team to take on Myers if y’all retain some and get Zona to retain 50%

 

[RandV]

The common misconception here, is that these guys are bad players that nobody wants, and that Van would have to retain just so someone would take them for free. The reality is that the Canucks aren't giving them away, and are looking to get value back for them - but will have to retain a bit if they want to get that value.

They won't be buying them out, and I don't think they are stupid enough to pay someone to take them when they could just retain a relatively small amount and get assets. So yes, I think I'm answering your question by saying that by retaining a certain amount (probably like %25), they would get assets back.

I would add to this that they have a full roster already under contract going into next season with the most significant player to resign being Ethan Bear. I don't recall exactly how the rule works but they should be well within the margins that you're allowed to go over the cap prior to the start of the season.

Basically it's hard to say what specifically they will do but they pretty much have till the start of October to sort things out. Buyouts and trading 2023 draft picks (which a lot of Canuck fans are freaking out about) have to be done at the very start of the off season in late June. You just have to look at last season, the Canucks went right till the very deadline then dropped a next years 2nd to dump Jason Dickinson to get cap compliant.

That said I feel like a trade with salary retention is the most likely outcome here, and the best time for that will be after July 1st after teams have struck out in the poor UFA market.

 

[bernmeister]

quick read of OP appears to have done all the homework for a passing ++ grade

As relates to nyr
no fit.
We are tied until bread waives + agrees to trade

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

If they buy out anyone it should be OEL. All of the other can still be moved for positive value

 

[Random schmoe]

Boeser + something small for Mantha + something small. You can then buyout Mantha (one year remaining at AAV of $5.7M , base salary of $6.5M with no bonuses) for cap hits of $1,366,667 in 23-24 and $2,166,667 in 24-25.

Caps get a better winger signed to a bad but not horrible contract, Nucks get to cut their cap obligations. (They can also of course choose to retain on Mantha and flip him elsewhere.)

I feel like the something small going to Washington should be better than the something going to Vancouver, but I'm a Caps fan so likely biased. Vancouver takes on virtually no risk with this deal, but maybe compromises on 'max value' that Boeser could be worth.

 

[RebuildinVan]

You put alot of effort into that OP...its alot to process over my Saturday morning coffee

 

[WingsToPick4th]

Boeser (no retention) + 11OA for 17 OA

 

[Killer Orcas]

Boeser (no retention) + 11OA for 17 OA

No thanks unless ASP and Reinbacher gone by 11 then I do it probably.

 

[WingsToPick4th]

No thanks unless ASP and Reinbacher gone by 11 then I do it probably.

you guys want huges, hronek and ASP on the same D core??? not ideal, reinbacher will be long gone by 11

 

[Killer Orcas]

you guys want huges, hronek and ASP on the same D core??? not ideal, reinbacher will be long gone by 11

ASP would probably not be ready for 2 years anyway. We need to get BPA really though and ASP probably is in that area.

 

[McJedi]

Good Day Ladies, Gents and others.

As you are aware, the Vancouver Canucks are in Cap trouble

I would ask you to help with which way to go and any offers would be gratefully appreciated.

I have simplified the cap, just to shorten it................but IMO, within a acceptable variance.

Option #1.............Buyouts cost per year

Boeser...........................Annual Salary: $6,650,000...................Cap Savings $4,433,333 Cap Hit $2,216,667
Garland.........................Annual Salary: $4,950,000...................Cap Savings: $3,111,111 Cap Hit: $1,838,889
Beauvillier....................Annual Salary: $4,150,000...................Cap Savings $2,766,666 Cap Hit: $1,383,334

Option #2...............Trade with Retention

Boeser.................Annual Salary: $6,650,000 Minus buyout as Retention number ($2,216,667) = New salary of $4,433,333
Garland...............Annual Salary: $4,950,000 Minus buyout as Retention number ($1,838.889) = New salary of $3,111,111
Beauvillier..........Annual Salary: $4,150,000 minus buyout as Retention number ($1,383,334) = New salary of $2,766,666

Now, it would seem very clear that the Canucks should attempt to trade any one of this trio (maybe 2) using a number close to the retention Cap Hit and that with new numbers to the trading team all 3 players should be able to receive decent return values.

Boeser is 26 and had 55 points this year....comparables:
Garland is 27 and has averaged approx. a .63 points game scoring rate
Beauvillier is 25 and has averaged approx. a .50 points per game scoring rate

So who are the comparables, and what are their values in trade? According to NHL.COM

Boeser's comparables are: Blake Wheeler, Evgeny Kuznetsov, and Johnathon Huberdeau all at 55 points
Garland's comparables are: Sam Bennett, TJ Oshie, and Anders Lee, all who scored at an approx. .60 points per game
Beauvillier's Comparables are : Andrew Mangiapane, Anthony Cerilli, Johnathon Drouin, and Pavel Dorofeyev at .50 PPP

So, ok........this is important. I am not saying Boeser, garland, and beauvillier are as good as their comparables. I picked and chose, where I could. But even if they were close to some in production. Compare their salaries, and you will find that with their new adjusted salaries, they all have good salaries in comparison.

I suggest, that with retention as suggested, all have value, and should be close to their piers in value............whatever that may be.

My question is....does this adjustment give them value in your opinion, at the new rate?

I would suggest, with the new rates at their current production, Boeser should be valued as a late 1st round pick, and garland and Beauvillier, mid 2nd round picks...........again, that is with the retentions!

Guys! This is for my knowledge, and not a flaming exercise! But go ahead if you must!

This will sound crazy from me but I’d trade the Avs 2023 1st for Boeser at $4.25mm AAV. That’s enough retention to part with an asset like that. Get him on the PP in the bumper spot with that shot and he’d finally score 30+ goals. Good value for 2 years at that AAV.

 

[nucksflailtogether]

This will sound crazy from me but I’d trade the Avs 2023 1st for Boeser at $4.25mm AAV. That’s enough retention to part with an asset like that. Get him on the PP in the bumper spot with that shot and he’d finally score 30+ goals. Good value for 2 years at that AAV.

Any Canucks fan would do that, not sure our a-hole owner would approve of the retention.

 

[oceanchild]

Boeser (no retention) + 11OA for 17 OA

See this is in where we run into problems, the team wants to add via trade for Boeser such as Boeser and the 11OA of say the 10OA and not the other way around.

you guys want huges, hronek and ASP on the same D core??? not ideal, reinbacher will be long gone by 11

More ideal then the blue line now

 

[WingsToPick4th]

See this is in where we run into problems, the team wants to add via trade for Boeser such as Boeser and the 11OA of say the 10OA and not the other way around.


More ideal then the blue line now

Boeser is a neutral/negative asset given his cap hit/contract and production.... & Vancouver desperately needs cap space.
Not saying hes a bad player, hes overpaid. He makes over 6 million for a few more years, dumping him would likely cost VAN assets in this cap climate, trading down only 6 spots wouldn't be the worst for VAN.

 

[Three On Zero]

Cap situation looks bleak, but management has a ton of options. This is the time for Allvin to prove he can be a GM.

OEL is the only real anchor contract that the Canucks have. Myers, Boeser and Garland aren’t world beaters but they shouldn’t be too hard to

 

[RandV]

Boeser is a neutral/negative asset given his cap hit/contract and production.... & Vancouver desperately needs cap space.
Not saying hes a bad player, hes overpaid. He makes over 6 million for a few more years, dumping him would likely cost VAN assets in this cap climate, trading down only 6 spots wouldn't be the worst for VAN.

That's why there's retention. Can't really say what's going to happen or what the plan is (I'm guessing the Canucks plan to keep Boeser) but with a weak UFA deal Boeser at say a $5M cap hit for 2 years could be a valued asset.

 

[McJedi]

Any Canucks fan would do that, not sure our a-hole owner would approve of the retention.

Probably not. That’s $5mm-ish over two seasons.

 

[nucksflailtogether]

Probably not. That’s $5mm-ish over two seasons.

5 million for a 1st and cap space to help his team win and potentially make playoff revenue that he so desires? Nah…

 

[zcaptain]

Boeser is a neutral/negative asset given his cap hit/contract and production.... & Vancouver desperately needs cap space.
Not saying hes a bad player, hes overpaid. He makes over 6 million for a few more years, dumping him would likely cost VAN assets in this cap climate, trading down only 6 spots wouldn't be the worst for VAN.

And this is why 2.2 Million in retention works so well......it reduces Boesers contract to being a low contract for what he brings......Aka moving 4.4 million of Boesers salary in trade, gives them 4.4 million cap space, and that possible Colorado 2023-1st, McJedi is talking about, or similar.

This leaves them with their 2013-11th not being traded and acquiring Colorado's 1st, 2023-27th, pick. This is the best thing Vancouver could do, and 4.4 million in Cap space.

 

[Habsrule]

Beauvillier has been linked to Montreal for a few years now according to the press. Now that could just be French journalists liking French players.

What about something like Anthony Beauvillier for Jake Evans?

Beauvillier is an upcoming UFA making 4.15 million. Evans is signed for two more years at 1.7 million.

 

[Jannik Hansen]

Beauvillier has been linked to Montreal for a few years now according to the press. Now that could just be French journalists liking French players.

What about something like Anthony Beauvillier for Jake Evans?

Beauvillier is an upcoming UFA making 4.15 million. Evans is signed for two more years at 1.7 million.

Deal.

 

[elitepete]

Boeser (no retention) + 11OA for 17 OA

No thanks.

Beauvillier has been linked to Montreal for a few years now according to the press. Now that could just be French journalists liking French players.

What about something like Anthony Beauvillier for Jake Evans?

Beauvillier is an upcoming UFA making 4.15 million. Evans is signed for two more years at 1.7 million.

How about a 3rd+prospect for Beauvillier.