Post-Game Talk: Canucks 1 (Edler) - Nashville 3 | The Sky Is Back To Falling Pt II

[Pip]

Absolutely. Edler has proven to struggle when he's shoehorned into the "toughest minutes" on a team, or when he starts to push that 24 minutes a night threshold. It's all pretty well documented at this point. We had a pretty strong grasp on what Edler is/is not capable of.

But that in no way makes Stanton capable of playing the same minutes Edler does with similar effectiveness. Nor does it make it a good idea to jettison our "high minute man" from an already less than exceptionally deep blueline for a 2015 pick that is a roll of the dice to even make a real NHL impact, much less play the sort of role Edler has settled into.

The first point is what I'm saying. Edler is a known commodity. We are all very aware of his limitations and drawbacks. Stanton, on the other hand, is a young defenseman essentially at the start of his NHL career and while it is not guarantee that he can handle "Edler minutes" I'd say that what we know of him so far would indicate that he should have a shot at playing them. I do feel like Stanton would be capable of playing them but of course we won't know unless we try.

He's only played a handful of games under Willie so it's unfair to really point to his usage thus far. I'm not saying trade Edler and put Stanton in his place right now, but I would test Stanton's ability to play in the top 4. I would also hope that we would acquire at least another decent NHL defenseman (we should anyways) as our depth would be dreadful if we moved Edler without getting a D back.

 

[biturbo19]

Based on what we've seen from Stanton since acquiring him, I have little doubt he'd excel playing 20 minutes/game. And he did last year when given the chance.

I'd take Stanton playing any amount of minutes over 13-14 Edler in a heartbeat. He was that bad. He's been better so far this season (thanks, Tanev) but this game was last years Edler and it was ugly. And is was ugly even before Bieksa's injury. Completely mentally switched off during the first period.

It happened like 4, maybe 5 times if you're generous with the minutes being close, in terms of instances of Stanton playing 20+ minutes. And he was a minus player in that sample. Of playing 20 minutes a night.

Edler played 28 tonight. That's a completely different ballgame. And he has looked good through large parts of his career, including most of this year...playing 23-24 minutes a night. Also a completely different ballpark from what Stanton has shown.

Hell, Sbisa your alleged "non NHL player" played twice as many ~20 minute plus games last season...despite missing half the year due to a long string of injuries and really struggling to get back into the swing of things. You go back to the year prior...Sbisa played a ton of games at ~20 minutes or more...30+, on a division champion Ducks team in the dreaded "Pacific".

I don't want to sound like i'm disparaging Stanton. Because like i said, i think he's a very solid bottom-pairing defenceman, just as Sbisa is. He punches a good solid time card most every game he plays. But to suggest that he's anywhere even in the realm of a "decent" replacement for Edler is just ridiculous. I wouldn't want either guy anywhere near playing Edler's minutes.

 

[biturbo19]

The first point is what I'm saying. Edler is a known commodity. We are all very aware of his limitations and drawbacks. Stanton, on the other hand, is a young defenseman essentially at the start of his NHL career and while it is not guarantee that he can handle "Edler minutes" I'd say that what we know of him so far would indicate that he should have a shot at playing them. I do feel like Stanton would be capable of playing them but of course we won't know unless we try.

He's only played a handful of games under Willie so it's unfair to really point to his usage thus far. I'm not saying trade Edler and put Stanton in his place right now, but I would test Stanton's ability to play in the top 4. I would also hope that we would acquire at least another decent NHL defenseman (we should anyways) as our depth would be dreadful if we moved Edler without getting a D back.

The first part is obviously the easy part to identify. We have a good long record for Edler...we have a pretty good idea what he is.

Maybe Stanton has a wild development curve and becomes a 24 minute a night stud defenceman who can pot some 40-50pts a year in his prime. It could happen. But that doesn't mean it's anything like a certainty or likely development. Based on what Stanton has shown thus far...he looks like a great bottom-pairing defenceman who can move up to the top-4 for stints here and there and maybe there's some upside there to be a more consistent top-4 guy at some point in the future. Maybe.

Edler has been more or less a top-4 defenceman since his first full year in the league. With years where he's been widely viewed as among the best in the league. A guy garnering legitimate Norris candidacy votes.

Stanton could miraculously explode to that level...but nothing we've actually observed thus far in his brief NHL career as salvaged waiver fodder has truly indicated that is likely to this point, nor his track record prior to that in the AHL or WHL.

It's just a very peculiar double standard and a preference for a certain "type" of defenceman that seems to throw Edler under the bus as "addition by subtraction" or "easily replaced by Stanton". It doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[Pip]

I don't think Stanton needs to replicate Edler's offensive contribution to replace him as a top 4 defender.

 

[biturbo19]

I don't think Stanton needs to replicate Edler's offensive contribution to replace him as a top 4 defender.

Because our blueline is already so otherwise stacked with offensive dynamos that we don't need any of that?

 

[Pip]

Because our blueline is already so otherwise stacked with offensive dynamos that we don't need any of that?

I know that it comes off as me sounding like I hate offensive defenseman but I don't. I just think they should be be able to at least hold their own defensively and shouldn't be costing their teams goals and chances like Edler did so often last year and has shown shades of this season. I don't consider Edler as much of an offensive creator, more of a finisher/benefactor. He has a good shot, and does well to jump into the play, but I don't see him as a key part of our offense.

I'd be much more happy with a 35 point guy who is more solid in his own end (I'm not saying Stanton is there, but I believe he can be that guy).

 

[biturbo19]

I know that it comes off as me sounding like I hate offensive defenseman but I don't. I just think they should be be able to at least hold their own defensively and shouldn't be costing their teams goals and chances like Edler did so often last year and has shown shades of this season. I don't consider Edler as much of an offensive creator, more of a finisher/benefactor. He has a good shot, and does well to jump into the play, but I don't see him as a key part of our offense.

I'd be much more happy with a 35 point guy who is more solid in his own end (I'm not saying Stanton is there, but I believe he can be that guy).

It's possible. Things happen. I'm skeptical, but i wouldn't 100% rule it out.

I just find it absurd the certainty some people have that Stanton could just slip right in and replace Edler without incident. I'd call it more of a huge longshot. I mean...maybe if Stanton had produced 35+ points more than once or twice in Jrs, or actually produced significant points in Jrs that NHL point producing defencemen tend to have in their history...i'd have more faith in that notion. I just don't see it though.

Maybe it's that i still remember the years when Edler could do little wrong and was the pride and joy draft steal of the organization. Now he sometimes ends up in over his head...and somehow Stanton, who hasn't demonstrated anything beyond bottom-pairing ability is the "heir apparent" and Edler is a negative presence just by existing in the lineup and playing the minutes he sometimes gets forced into for lack of better options.

 

[kmad]

I know that it comes off as me sounding like I hate offensive defenseman but I don't. I just think they should be be able to at least hold their own defensively and shouldn't be costing their teams goals and chances like Edler did so often last year and has shown shades of this season. I don't consider Edler as much of an offensive creator, more of a finisher/benefactor. He has a good shot, and does well to jump into the play, but I don't see him as a key part of our offense.

Edler has some good offensive tools other than his shot. He has a good pass through the neutral zone, and he can rush the puck pretty well. He just doesn't have the hockey IQ to quarterback a powerplay like you'd want your #1 offensive guy to be able to. He's very similar to Ed Jovanovski was for us. Very talented athlete, but gets a bit lost in complicated situations and tends to guess at the correct play quite a lot.

 

[Caspian]

Edler has a 2cent hockey brain.

Ryan Stanton could EASILY replace him in the top 4 and the team would be better for it. Fact is Stanton makes better hockey decisions and thinks the game better. Unfortunately Ryan Stanton doesn't make 5 million a year (gotta play the big $ player) and people think he's just some depth guy we got off waivers.

If you want to babble about offense, I'm pretty sure Stanton had more even strength points last season over Edler

Throw Stanton on the power play and I'm sure he could pick up some pp points with the Sedins.

 

[Caspian]

Because our blueline is already so otherwise stacked with offensive dynamos that we don't need any of that?

2013-14
Even Strength Points
Ryan Stanton: 16 points
Alex Edler: 10 points



Edler had more points overall (22 points - only 6 more points) due to collecting 12 powerplay points.

Sorry but dumb players don't make for good offensive players either. Moving the puck smartly nets more offense and Edler can't do that.

 

[biturbo19]

2013-14
Even Strength Points
Ryan Stanton: 16 points
Alex Edler: 10 points



Edler had more points overall (22 points - only 6 more points) due to collecting 12 powerplay points.

Sorry but dumb players don't make for good offensive players either. Moving the puck smartly nets more offense and Edler can't do that.

Do you live in a world where last year is the only hockey season that ever happened?

 

[Caspian]

Do you live in a world where last year is the only hockey season that ever happened?

Stanton's been injured most of this season. And before last season Stanton was a Chicago Blackhawk.

Last season is the best head to head comparison you can get.

Also Stanton, as an NHL rookie, managed to not be -39 last year

 

[biturbo19]

Stanton's been injured most of this season. And before last season Stanton was a Chicago Blackhawk.

Last season is the best head to head comparison you can get.

Also Stanton, as an NHL rookie, managed to not be -39 last year

Hockey still existed before last year, regardless of whether Stanton was deemed good enough to play in the NHL or not (he was not).

And Alex Edler played some pretty good hockey in the years prior to Stanton's arrival.

As far as Stanton managing not to be -39 last year goes...he played 530 less minutes. And far softer minutes than Edler last year. That is a significant caveat to what you're suggesting. That's one whole Yannick Weber worth of extra minutes Edler played last year...vs top competition (which was clearly too much for him, but that doesn't at all mean that Stanton is to be assumed capable of handling that by default just because Edler isn't).

It's bizarre projection. Assuming Stanton wouldn't look equally as far in over his head as Edler, playing those sort of minutes...with practically zero basis. And while simultaneously downplaying Edler's offensive contributions and capabilities.

 

[LiveeviL]

Hockey still existed before last year, regardless of whether Stanton was deemed good enough to play in the NHL or not (he was not).

And Alex Edler played some pretty good hockey in the years prior to Stanton's arrival.

As far as Stanton managing not to be -39 last year goes...he played 530 less minutes. And far softer minutes than Edler last year. That is a significant caveat to what you're suggesting. That's one whole Yannick Weber worth of extra minutes Edler played last year...vs top competition (which was clearly too much for him, but that doesn't at all mean that Stanton is to be assumed capable of handling that by default just because Edler isn't).

It's bizarre projection. Assuming Stanton wouldn't look equally as far in over his head as Edler, playing those sort of minutes...with practically zero basis. And while simultaneously downplaying Edler's offensive contributions and capabilities.

Just for the reference Corsi QoC

Edler had a tough year last year, it actually put his "+- QoT" at pair with Stanton. That said, Stanton would not have done well with Edler's Corsi QoC.

 

[kanucks25]

Edler has been very good if not great overall this season. Obviously people are gonna call him out after he got beat to the net twice last night.

Really he's only made a handful of Edler-type bonehead plays this year which is pretty good considering the type of minutes he plays.

It always helps having Tanev as your partner but if you just watch Edler you can tell he's playing much better in pretty much all facets of the game.

He played 28 minutes on a back-to-back, mistakes are going to happen. If he's the sole reason for goals against consistently, then we have a problem. But that hasn't been the case at all so far this season.

 

[BobbyJazzLegs]

So the game pretty much played out how I expected.

Nucks were pretty flat courtesy of the back to back and in-game injuries. Rinne was outstanding and Lack couldn't live up to that.

Sedin line was still threatening but they're not sticking as many passes right now.

Third line was good again. Really need to bury some of those chances.

D-core looks pretty solid these days, especially their stick work (the entire team really). Solid tip in by Hamhuis though

Nashville are a good team. Very similar style to us this year I think. Lots of end to end trading chances which is something you wouldn't expect from these groups much in the last 2 years.

 

[BeardyCanuck03]

Wow... One loss and the crazies come out big time. Edler had an absolutely horrible season last year and while not perfect is still a top 4 dman on ANY team in the NHL, and has played really well this season. Going into the game vs Mtl the Edler/Tanev pair had not been on the ice for a goal against since the 2nd period in Colorado.

 

[Ryp37]

Very annoyed at how quickly the linesmen jumped into that Sbisa Weber fight, it's ridiculous the league has told them to do this and I hope a liney gets an accidental pop in the mouth the next time

Let em fight this isn't recess

 

[BassMason]

Very annoyed at how quickly the linesmen jumped into that Sbisa Weber fight, it's ridiculous the league has told them to do this and I hope a liney gets an accidental pop in the mouth the next time

Let em fight this isn't recess

Pretty sure Sbisa didn't want to go. Linesman saved him.

 

[Balls Mahoney]

Yeah I was fine with the linesman breaking that up. Sbisa clearly didn't want any of Weber.

This team needs to trade Edler ASAP before his value is totally gone. I will ***** about it until the end of the time but this team could be so much better if Gillis pulled the trigger in 2013.

 

[Tinhorn1]

Yeah I was fine with the linesman breaking that up. Sbisa clearly didn't want any of Weber.

This team needs to trade Edler ASAP before his value is totally gone. I will ***** about it until the end of the time but this team could be so much better if Gillis pulled the trigger in 2013.

Edler is 1/2 of the team's top pairing this year, and they've played very well for the most part. What you're pining for is a worse team. Also, the team can't just trade him just because. Why would Edler waive his NTC to leave a team he loves when he's a key cog on said team? Is there another big-minute defenceman who can put up points coming back? Is there even a marginal replacement already in the system? No and no. Edler stays, and it's so obvious I don't know why it even needs to be said.

 

[NoShowWilly]

Kassian really needs to be given a chance on the powerplay. i don't understand how he is being left off it at this point. The guy is just oozing playmaking ability and i'd think ***** would be a trigger man over a playmaker on the pp.

 

[BobbyJazzLegs]

Kassian really needs to be given a chance on the powerplay. i don't understand how he is being left off it at this point. The guy is just oozing playmaking ability and i'd think ***** would be a trigger man over a playmaker on the pp.

Yeah, even I'm starting to get frustrated with this.

 

[Baby Pettersson]

Kassian really needs to be given a chance on the powerplay. i don't understand how he is being left off it at this point. The guy is just oozing playmaking ability and i'd think ***** would be a trigger man over a playmaker on the pp.

If anything just give it a shot at the very least.

 

[polarbearcub]

Kassian is Playing the most consistent hockey of his career. He's bringing it every night now.