Friedman: Canes likely moving on from Necas.

[Habs Halifax]

67% offensive zone starts don't actually mean that much when you break down where the actual shift use is 5x5:

12.6% offensive zone
14.3% neutral zone
5.8% defensive zone
67.3% on the fly

Even Jordan Staal only starts 15.4% of his 5x5 shifts in the defensive zone.

Comparing the offensive zone starts to the defensive zone starts as a ratio is focusing on <20% of the 5x5 shifts.

The 67% offensive zone starts is just one layer of many. But it's proof on how he is utilized. His blocks/hits are low. Do I think he sucks defensively? NO

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

It's my opinion and you can get all twisted all you want with your words of choice. Canes utilized him as a 2nd and 3rd line player over the last few seasons and I don't think he has more development to come. He is what he is at this point.

In the middle 6F group, he is at the higher end of that waive but a notch below the guys who are actually top 6F. Good 2nd line player and well above average 3rd line player.

Do you know what I find ridiculous? Drawing an absolute line between top 6F and bottom 6F. I see many players in this NHL who are middle 6F types. They play both 2nd and 3rd lines depending on team fit and on the 2nd PP unit type thing.

Gang up on me all you want, I can handle it. I stand firm on my statement. A middle 6F but at the higher end of this waive of talent.

The only reason you don't mind being ganged up on is you ignore posts that prove you wrong, like my earlier post.

Also, continuously saying that he was "utilized as a middle 6 forward" despite getting more 5v5 minutes than any other Canes forward makes you look uninformed.

The 67% offensive zone starts is just one layer of many. But it's proof on how he is utilized. His blocks/hits are low. Do I think he sucks defensively? NO

That number has been proven to be inaccurate, it's 60.5%. Which isn't all that high considering how strong the hurricanes' possession game is.

If you're going to double down on your obviously stupid take, at least use actual facts to support it instead of repeatedly posting inaccurate information.

 

[Habs Halifax]

The only reason you don't mind being ganged up on is you ignore posts that prove you wrong, like my earlier post.

Also, continuously saying that he was "utilized as a middle 6 forward" despite getting more 5v5 minutes than any other Canes forward makes you look uninformed.


That number has been proven to be inaccurate, it's 60.5%. Which isn't all that high considering how strong the hurricanes' possession game is.

If you're going to double down on your obviously stupid take, at least use actual facts to support it instead of repeatedly posting inaccurate information.

Not continuing it any further. I explained my angle on my statement. No further discussion required and you won't find anything that changes my mind. Same things will be said over and over at this stage.

 

[Hookslide]

ullmark and zacha?

What about them ?

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Not continuing it any further.

Translation: "I was wrong"

I explained my angle on my statement. No further discussion required and you won't find anything that changes my mind.

Your angle was "since he was deployed like a middle 6F, he must be a middle 6F".

So now that you've been informed that he was actually the Canes leading forward in 5v5 ice time, are deployments no longer relevant?

Just admit you were wrong, it's not that hard. It's okay to be wrong. Dude led the 2nd best team in the league in scoring last season and you refuse to acknowledge him as a legit 2nd line player, you see how much of a donkey take that is, right?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Translation: "I was wrong"

Your angle was "since he was deployed like a middle 6F, he must be a middle 6F".

So now that you've been informed that he was actually the Canes leading forward in 5v5 ice time, are deployments no longer relevant?

Just admit you were wrong, it's not that hard. It's okay to be wrong. Dude led the 2nd best team in the league in scoring last season and you refuse to acknowledge him as a legit 2nd line player, you see how much of a donkey take that is, right?

 

[Stickpucker]

I read this thread and the only nugget of truth i was able to glean out of the posts was that necas is likely done in Carolina and user habs halifax is out to lunch lol

He's more bitter than Tom Dundon.

 

[Stickpucker]

One thing I think is hard to quantify is just how many overtime games Necas can win you on his own.

He can build speed in the dzone loop around the ozone and either score or find another player open once he breaks down the d with his speed.

 

[Volica]

I feel Calgary here would take a look at him.
Canes and Flames have had a good trade history that's benefited both clubs.

Conroy and his staff are clearly targeting guys in this age range, they're also clearly targeting guys they think have another level if elevated. Necas is a really good player, and it's apparent that if Calgary went in on him it'd be to put him down the middle and give him our 'good' wingers.

Kind of wonder what that trade would look like. Clearly a pretty skilled guy with that career year a couple years back, maybe a step back this year a bit... but 25, big, right handed.

 

[Random Forest]

Reminds me a lot of Martin Havlat both in skill and career arc so far. Super skilled, strong top six winger, great open ice threat. Probably not The Guy on a top team though.

 

[Xoggz22]

So he's going to end up in Columbus now right? Play center and be Waddell's first big move?

 

[Eegs]

Reminds me a lot of Martin Havlat both in skill and career arc so far. Super skilled, strong top six winger, great open ice threat. Probably not The Guy on a top team though.

Good comp.

Amazingly skilled player that always leaves you wanting just a bit more.

 

[DaveG]

Reminds me a lot of Martin Havlat both in skill and career arc so far. Super skilled, strong top six winger, great open ice threat. Probably not The Guy on a top team though.

that's actually a pretty good comp, mind you Necas hasn't had the health issues that started for Havlat around the same age. The one thing that has frustrated me with how the Canes have handled Necas is the one guy that he has gelled with very well was Svechnikov, but they rarely play on the same line. It's distinctly possible that they do if they retain all 3 (Guentzel, Jarvis, Necas) this offseason somehow and he has a breakout year, but only chance of that is going to arbitration IMO and the FO would rather get an asset to help at RHD or have Necas as a package for an improvement up front from what I've been able to read.

Hronek would make sense though Hronek isn't an 8M dman IMO, closer to 6-6.5.

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

It's my opinion and you can get all twisted all you want with your words of choice. Canes utilized him as a 2nd and 3rd line player over the last few seasons and I don't think he has more development to come. He is what he is at this point.

In the middle 6F group, he is at the higher end of that waive but a notch below the guys who are actually top 6F. Good 2nd line player and well above average 3rd line player.

Do you know what I find ridiculous? Drawing an absolute line between top 6F and bottom 6F. I see many players in this NHL who are middle 6F types. They play both 2nd and 3rd lines depending on team fit and on the 2nd PP unit type thing.

Gang up on me all you want, I can handle it. I stand firm on my statement. A middle 6F but at the higher end of this waive of talent.

You’re employing the same phrasing and are simply too deep in a silly argument, come on now. You don’t think he’s a first line talent, just say that. Why use more words, fewer good.

 

[Habs Halifax]

You’re employing the same phrasing and are simply too deep in a silly argument, come on now. You don’t think he’s a first line talent, just say that. Why use more words, fewer good.

I would talk more but there are too many nit pickers out there jumping in and continuing it on for days. Not worth it. I'm very comfortable at what I said. Not many fans talk middle 6F and have the top 6/bottom 6 absolute line. I don't see it that way. If you are a NHL GM and paying guys for top 6 rate and then bottom 6 rate, I think you are making a salary cap strategy mistake. There is an in between and I have Necas in it. That's all I will say. Someone else is going to reply but I'm done. Too much repeating

Not an argument with me. It's how I prefer to explain it. I'm also not a fan of the posters who use trigger words... Hilarious, Silly, What are you smoking, etc. It's a culture trap and a "got cha" game. I have no interest in that. Been there, done that, and I grew up and learned from it.

 

[Brookbank]

He's getting almost David Clarkson level hype now.

If he's not good enough for the Hurricanes at his price point , he's not good enough for my team either. Swerve

I'll take someone that nobody's talking about. Like Vancouver did with Hronek

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

He's getting almost David Clarkson level hype now.

If he's not good enough for the Hurricanes at his price point , he's not good enough for my team either. Swerve

I'll take someone that nobody's talking about. Like Vancouver did with Hronek

Lol what a weird take. Teams want Necas because he's a tremendously skilled player who has the ability to be dynamic on the ice. He has elite skating, puck protection, stick handling, and shot. He needs to figure out how to best utilize those abilities rather than go all Maxim Afinagenov all the time.

 

[bleedgreen]

He's getting almost David Clarkson level hype now.

If he's not good enough for the Hurricanes at his price point , he's not good enough for my team either. Swerve

I'll take someone that nobody's talking about. Like Vancouver did with Hronek

Normally I agree but the Canes culture has become RBA. Necas is the opposite of RBA’s style. He’s still been so good that he’s been with us for years because he’s cost managed and he’s the only guy on the team (including Aho) that can create offense on his own with consistency in the regular season. Half the reason why he’s probably gone is his own preference to leave, and that’s not because he’s whiny. He was drafted as a center and wants to play there. He had 70 points a season ago but didn’t play on the first unit this year. He’s halfway through his career and he wants his shot. Lebrun has said we as a team plan on expanding his role if he stays but it feels like that won’t happen. As a group canes fans embrace RBA’s attitude about the guy not being good enough defensively and he shouldn’t play there, but we really don’t have that information. I see him working as hard or harder than many guys back checking, he’s just not intuitively defensive minded and he’s loose with the puck when he attacks. He shows you the puck instead of showing you his back in possession. He may make an excellent center. I’d be fine with him getting a chance with us next season, I think he’s awesome. I don’t believe you can’t win with him, you just can’t be counting on him for so much offense. He needs to be another cog in the wheel vs the guy everyone gets frustrated gets shut down in the post season. The first line leaves the ice and the only guy we have left is Necas, of course the other team shuts him down in the playoffs.

Sorry I used your post to vent, but short story long he’s worth the price. The Canes are at the point where the cap game rules everything and sometimes a good player leaves. Other teams should be all over this, we’ll miss him when he’s gone and I’m not saying that because I’m trying to drive up his trade value on a message board with other hockey nerds.

 

[Derailed75]

. If this was true, there would be no talk of trade and the Canes fans would tell you he is going nowhere. They would consider letting Guentzel walk. His usage this past season with the Canes was middle 6F with 67% of offensive zone starts.

I dont disagree with most of your assessment but I dont think this part is true. Marty wants to play center and be used with higher-end linemates than he is getting the chances to in Rod's system. I also think he wants to play in a more free-wheeling offense and doesnt really want to stay in Carolina. With all that being said I feel like the FO is fine letting him go. No ill will from either side just time to move on.

 

[Derailed75]

You’re employing the same phrasing and are simply too deep in a silly argument, come on now. You don’t think he’s a first line talent, just say that. Why use more words, fewer good.

I believe you meant "fewer gooder"

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

He's getting almost David Clarkson level hype now.

If he's not good enough for the Hurricanes at his price point , he's not good enough for my team either. Swerve

I'll take someone that nobody's talking about. Like Vancouver did with Hronek

Speaking of over hyping players, aren't you the guy who said Bedard was better than McDavid?

Oooooooof.

 

[Brookbank]

Speaking of over hyping players, aren't you the guy who said Bedard was better than McDavid?

Oooooooof.

oooof what ? Bedard got injured in his rookie year. Just like McDavid did. In the games he played, he was tracking Mcdavids rookie campaign in PPG on a way worse team.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

oooof what ? Bedard got injured in his rookie year. Just like McDavid did. In the games he played, he was tracking Mcdavids rookie campaign in PPG on a way worse team.

He's nowhere remotely near McDavid. McDavid finished the season 3rd in the entire league PPG during his rookie season, which is where Mackinnon finished this year. Did Bedard have a Mackinnon like season? Not even remotely close.

Bedard was 58th PPG. Yeah, he was on a garbage team, but he was also cheating for offense constantly. He was arguably the biggest defensive liability in the league last year, with the worst +/- per game; he was on pace to be -53 over a full season. Obviously +/- is a team stat, but he was even bad relative to his own teammates. There's a reason they tried him at wing near the end of the season, and its the same reason he slowly lost his role as top 6 player on team Canada, eventually being relegated to the 12th/13th forward, behind guys like Jack McBain...

Also, Bedard was actually more productive after returning from injury. He had only 33 points in 39gp before getting injured, which was 62nd in the NHL in PPG at the time. He was 47th in PPG from his return until the end of the season. At no point did he come close to approaching McDavid's offensive dominance. And his all around game lagged behind even more. And it's not like the Oilers were that good of a team. They were better than the Hawks, but they were still 2nd last in the league, just like Chicago.

 

[Brookbank]

He's nowhere remotely near McDavid. McDavid finished the season 3rd in the entire league PPG during his rookie season, which is where Mackinnon finished this year. Did Bedard have a Mackinnon like season? Not even remotely close.

Bedard was 58th PPG. Yeah, he was on a garbage team, but he was also cheating for offense constantly. He was arguably the biggest defensive liability in the league last year, with the worst +/- per game; he was on pace to be -53 over a full season. Obviously +/- is a team stat, but he was even bad relative to his own teammates. There's a reason they tried him at wing near the end of the season, and its the same reason he slowly lost his role as top 6 player on team Canada, eventually being relegated to the 12th/13th forward, behind guys like Jack McBain...

Also, Bedard was actually more productive after returning from injury. He had only 33 points in 39gp before getting injured, which was 62nd in the NHL in PPG at the time. He was 47th in PPG from his return until the end of the season. At no point did he come close to approaching McDavid's offensive dominance. And his all around game lagged behind even more. And it's not like the Oilers were that good of a team. They were better than the Hawks, but they were still 2nd last in the league, just like Chicago.

Ah so Bedard bust watch is on eh. Ha!

With the injuries Chicago had , it was one of the worst teams in recent memory. They actually paid a 5th round pick to get Bouvillier. Then he got injured. Then Perry left.

It was a total cluster f*** for him and the team. He got no momentum going and the season was just a write off But even with that , he showed what he could do. He was making NHL goalies and dmen look like chumps all on his own. And using his teammates to make space and get goals. He will be back. And the comparison between him and Mcdavid is far from decided

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Ah so Bedard bust watch is on eh. Ha!

Saying he's nowhere near McDavid is not the same thing as calling him a bust.

With the injuries Chicago had , it was one of the worst teams in recent memory. They actually paid a 5th round pick to get Bouvillier. Then he got injured. Then Perry left.

Yeah, if only we got to see how he looks with good teammates, like on the Canadian national team. Oh wait, we did. And he was arguably worse than he was with Chicago. Good thing he piled up points against the weakest team in the tournament before getting demoted.

It was a total cluster f*** for him and the team. He got no momentum going and the season was just a write off But even with that , he showed what he could do. He was making NHL goalies and dmen look like chumps all on his own. And using his teammates to make space and get goals. He will be back. And the comparison between him and Mcdavid is far from decided

Look at all the excuses you're making for him. Generational talents don't need excuses.