Canadiens-Nordiques rivalry

voyageur

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Jul 10, 2011
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Of all the rivalries in the 1980s, was this the best one?

These 2 teams met 4 times in the Adams division playoffs between 1982 and 1987, each winning two series a piece. All but the 1984 series, which ended with the Good Friday massacre changing the tide in the Canadiens favour in game 6 of that series, ended in an elimination game. 1984, 1985 and 1987 were for the Adams division title. The Nordiques won in game 5 in 1982, and in game 7 in 1985, with OT winners by Dale Hunter and Peter Stastny. The Canadiens won game 7 in 1987 with a 2nd period onslaught, led by Ryan Walter.

But these were close and bitter rivals. Each team had their share of tough guys that battled throughout the rivalry. Peter Stastny and Guy Carbonneau had fierce and sometimes dirty confrontations. There's the Hunter brothers on each side. Michel Goulet usurped Guy Lafleur as the star of the province, and perhaps those playoffs led to Lafleur's early retirement. The goalies included Rick Wamsley, Steve Penney, Patrick Roy, who was pulled in favour of Brian Hayward after giving up 7 goals in game 1 of the 1987 series. For the Nordiques Daniel Bouchard and Mario Gosselin were the goalies who went to battle. Michel Bergeron was the coach of the Nordiques thoughout this rivalry, while the Canadiens went through Bob Berry, Jacques Lemaire, and Jean Perron in those 4 series.

I know the Battle of Alberta was fiercely contended, and the teams that won that matchup would represent the Campbell Conference in Stanley Cup. But the battle of Quebec was quite the rivalry, pitting an upstart WHA franchise against the NHL's most storied franchise, a battle between two major breweries, Molson's and O'Keefes, and the distinction of being Quebec's team, transcending political rivalries of the era.

After 1987, the Nordiques would miss the playoffs for 5 consecutive seasons, and disappear from the landscape. The final battle in 1993 featured none of the players who had been a part of the fierce and violent rivalry, except Carbonneau, Roy, Steven Finn and Mike Hough. And though it was contentious, as the Canadiens had once again become a French Canadien team under Sarge Savard, whereas the the Noridques had developed talent from outside the province, I don't think it was as bitter and fierce as the rivalry of the 80s. It did cement Patrick Roy's legacy, who had come back from two games down, and the risk of being pulled, to being a hero from the province.

But I'd like to hear more about what fans of this era thought of this rivalry. Was there anything like it? Was it more fierce than the Bruins-Canadiens rivalry of the 70s? I just remember that these 2 teams hated each other, more than any other teams at that time.
 
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I think the Oilers/Flames was just as nasty as this one. Both had a lot of hate and animosity. It made for great hockey.
 
I would say the Nordiques / Canadiens' rivalry was tops in the mid-1980s, while the Flames / Oilers' one was tops more towards the later-1980s.

The OP noted the long and close series between the Quebec clubs. The Alberta teams were similar in that it went:
1984: 7-game series (down to third period of game 7)
1986: 7-game series (down to third period of game 7)
1988: 4-game sweep (won by the probable underdog)
1991: 7-game series (in overtime)

For long-time and season-ticket holding-type Oilers' fans, there were two seasons in particular -- 1986-87 and 1987-88 -- where nobody cared if the Oilers won a regular season game at all... they only cared if they beat the Flames!
 
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More brawls in the Nords-Habs contests than the Oilers-Flames rivalry, that I recall.
 
Say what you will, but you all know the fierce and sometimes dirty confrontations between Guy and the baby is why he’s a Hall of Famer.

Shutting down that Gretzky guy in the 1993 Cup didn't hurt either. Carbonneau was the best penalty killer I ever saw.

As for Stastny I would hardly call him a baby. He learned to play the game the Canadian way. I am convinced if Mario Tremblay hadn't scrapped with him in the Good Friday massacre of 1984, and if he hadn't been ejected, the Nordiques would have won that series.

Edit: thanks for the correction.
 
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Just an aside, but the whole "Carbonneau-shut-down-Gretzky" angle gets, I think, a bit over-stated by Habs' enthusiasts on here. Gretzky was quite effective in all of the first four games of the 1993 Finals, and, you know, seven points in four games in the Finals isn't too shabby. Game two is the one game (of the first four) when Carbonneau definitely succeeded vs. Gretzky, but even then Montreal only won because of McSorley's stick. Anyway, I'm off topic...
 
Just an aside, but the whole "Carbonneau-shut-down-Gretzky" angle gets, I think, a bit over-stated by Habs' enthusiasts on here. Gretzky was quite effective in all of the first four games of the 1993 Finals, and, you know, seven points in four games in the Finals isn't too shabby. Game two is the one game (of the first four) when Carbonneau definitely succeeded vs. Gretzky, but even then Montreal only won because of McSorley's stick. Anyway, I'm off topic...

Gretzky had 4 of those points in game 1. So it would be 3 points in 4 games after that. Carbonneau could play against Gretzky. That was always Carbo's job, to match up against the best.

And it took a lot of luck for the Habs to win that Cup in 93. Buffalo defeated Boston, and made the road easier, NY Isles knocked off Pens, 2 time defending champs, making the road easier. Game 2 was the turning point, but it wasn't as though the Habs didn't come back from 2 down losing at home against Quebec to win that series. Patrick Roy is the main reason they won.
 
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Whenever I think of the playoff matchups between the Montreal Canadiens and the Quebec Nordiques, my first recollection is of the very first game - game one of the 1981-82 playoff series. During the first period, Pierre Mondou performs surgery on Peter Stastny, and the Nordiques are without their best offensive player, and the key to their top line (the Stastny brothers trio). Besides taking out Stastny, Mondou led the Habs that series with seven points in five games (it was a best-of-five series). When Peter was injured, I thought for sure Quebec would be bounced. Nope the remaining Stastny brothers led the Nords in points that first series. No doubt the Boston Bruins were thrilled to see Peter back for their second round series with Quebec. He had 12 points in seven games. He had five points in four games against the New York Islanders, who were on their way to another Stanley Cup Championship.

Ever wonder how a Nordiques vs Canucks Final might have played out?
 
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1982 was when I first noticed Gallivan may be losing something off his fastball. He botched the Hunter OT winner (though it was a confusing net mouth pile up) he was like "Do they keep it out....OUT. That puck stayed out it's no goa..."

Then his partner goes "Danny that puck is in the net!!!"

1982 was probably such a shock to the Habs system. To lose an NHL playoff series in OT, at the Forum to the upstart WHA Nordiques. The Nords were a decent 82 point team...the Habs a 109 point powerhouse though one with some troublesome issues in net. They were only 3-3-2 vs Quebec that regular season so you knew the Nords were going to go in this series truly believing they could topple them. They also had a regular season game vs Montreal where the Habs totally blitzed them early and had a 4-1 lead going into the 1st intermission, and Quebec rallied to win 5-4. Did a lot for their confidence

1987 was a fun series with massive momentum swings. Habs are down 2-0, battle back to take a 3-2 series lead (with game 4 being a huge OT win to prevent Quebec going up 3-1) And now have their boot on the Nords throat with a 2-0 lead going into the 2nd intermission at the Colisee. But Quebec wakes up and scores 3 huge goals and shocks Montreal to force a game 7. Nords actually lead game 7 after 1 at the Forum before Mario Gosselin melts down. The two goals he allowed to Walter were horrific
 
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Just an aside, but the whole "Carbonneau-shut-down-Gretzky" angle gets, I think, a bit over-stated by Habs' enthusiasts on here. Gretzky was quite effective in all of the first four games of the 1993 Finals, and, you know, seven points in four games in the Finals isn't too shabby. Game two is the one game (of the first four) when Carbonneau definitely succeeded vs. Gretzky, but even then Montreal only won because of McSorley's stick. Anyway, I'm off topic...

Gretzky was also injured. But Guy was a stud.
 
I would say the Nordiques / Canadiens' rivalry was tops in the mid-1980s, while the Flames / Oilers' one was tops more towards the later-1980s.

The OP noted the long and close series between the Quebec clubs. The Alberta teams were similar in that it went:
1984: 7-game series (down to third period of game 7)
1986: 7-game series (down to third period of game 7)
1988: 4-game sweep (won by the probable underdog)
1991: 7-game series (in overtime)

For long-time and season-ticket holding-type Oilers' fans, there were two seasons in particular -- 1986-87 and 1987-88 -- where nobody cared if the Oilers won a regular season game at all... they only cared if they beat the Flames!

Habs-Bruins played each other every year from 1977-1994 with the exception of 80-83 and 1993. Boston won 5 of those after finally breaking through in 1988 (Habs won 8 - 4 of those being Cups, and they sandwiched another Cup in 1993 for good measure). Boston won 5 out of 6 at one point 1988-1994, but Habs won that 93 Cup. That rivalry, as we all know, was basically a gigantic crime spree that went unpunished by the police.

The one that hurt that most was probably 1988, but nobody was beating the Oilers anyway. Surprisingly, only 4 of the series went past game 5 though.
 
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1987 was a fun series with massive momentum swings. Habs are down 2-0, battle back to take a 3-2 series lead (with game 4 being a huge OT win to prevent Quebec going up 3-1) And now have their boot on the Nords throat with a 2-0 lead going into the 2nd intermission at the Colisee. But Quebec wakes up and scores 3 huge goals and shocks Montreal to force a game 7. Nords actually lead game 7 after 1 at the Forum before Mario Gosselin melts down. The two goals he allowed to Walter were horrific
Just a few short weeks later, the Nords traded Clint Malarchuk and Dale Hunter to the Washington Capitals for their 1st round draft pick in 1987 (Joe Sakic), Gaetan Duchesne and Alan Haworth. Gosselin became the Number One goaltender. Quebec missed the playoffs the next five seasons.
 
1982 was when I first noticed Gallivan may be losing something off his fastball. He botched the Hunter OT winner (though it was a confusing net mouth pile up) he was like "Do they keep it out....OUT. That puck stayed out it's no goa..."

Then his partner goes "Danny that puck is in the net!!!"

1982 was probably such a shock to the Habs system. To lose an NHL playoff series in OT, at the Forum to the upstart WHA Nordiques. The Nords were a decent 82 point team...the Habs a 109 point powerhouse though one with some troublesome issues in net. They were only 3-3-2 vs Quebec that regular season so you knew the Nords were going to go in this series truly believing they could topple them. They also had a regular season game vs Montreal where the Habs totally blitzed them early and had a 4-1 lead going into the 1st intermission, and Quebec rallied to win 5-4. Did a lot for their confidence

1987 was a fun series with massive momentum swings. Habs are down 2-0, battle back to take a 3-2 series lead (with game 4 being a huge OT win to prevent Quebec going up 3-1) And now have their boot on the Nords throat with a 2-0 lead going into the 2nd intermission at the Colisee. But Quebec wakes up and scores 3 huge goals and shocks Montreal to force a game 7. Nords actually lead game 7 after 1 at the Forum before Mario Gosselin melts down. The two goals he allowed to Walter were horrific

I think Montreal's confidence was shaky going into the 1982 series. They had been ousted in the playoffs in consecutive years by upstarts (North Stars and Oilers), and were now on their 3rd goalie in 3 years. The team was still strong, especially with their big 3 of Robinson, Langway, and Engblom on defense, and the emergence of Acton (who had a career year) and Napier. Lafleur had a good regular season, but was not much of a factor in the playoffs, scoring only 2 PP goals.

This Nordiques team had given the Flyers a good run in 1981. Even with Peter Stastny out they got good mileage out of the other 2 brothers, former WHA stars Cloutier and Tardif, and Wilf Paiement, acquired from Toronto. Goulet-Hunter-Cloutier was a strong line that eventually won the series.

Canadiens routed the Nordiques in both games they won. However Nordiques had a way of winning close games against the Canadiens. That would repeat itself in 1985, winning 3 in OT.

Daniel Bouchard was the difference, in my opinion. He faced 59 more shots over the series, and in game 2 and game 5 had 33 save performances while Wamsley allowed 3 goals in under 20 shots (17 and 19).
 
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Whenever I think of the playoff matchups between the Montreal Canadiens and the Quebec Nordiques, my first recollection is of the very first game - game one of the 1981-82 playoff series. During the first period, Pierre Mondou performs surgery on Peter Stastny, and the Nordiques are without their best offensive player, and the key to their top line (the Stastny brothers trio). Besides taking out Stastny, Mondou led the Habs that series with seven points in five games (it was a best-of-five series). When Peter was injured, I thought for sure Quebec would be bounced. Nope the remaining Stastny brothers led the Nords in points that first series. No doubt the Boston Bruins were thrilled to see Peter back for their second round series with Quebec. He had 12 points in seven games. He had five points in four games against the New York Islanders, who were on their way to another Stanley Cup Championship.

Ever wonder how a Nordiques vs Canucks Final might have played out?

The Nordiques were not even close to the Isles in 1982. The Nordiques for one had no Denis Potvin/Tomas Jonsson on the defense. Vancouver was lucky that the Kings pulled off the miracle on Manchester, and a game 5 upset to knock off the Oil, really it should have been 3 straight years of an Isles-Oilers Stanley Cup. The Isles for what it is worth, came down from 2 goals down in the 3rd to beat an upstart Penguins team in OT in the decisive game 5. Some John Tonelli magic. In a crazy hockey year.

Nordiques might have taken down Philly in 1985 with a little luck, to face the Oilers. They did give the Flyers a good battle, and held a 3rd period lead going into the pivotal game 5 of that series.

The 1986 season the Nordiques won the Adams division, finished 4th overall, but were swept by Hartford, that might have been their best chance to go all the way, with the Flames upset of the Oilers.
 
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Yeah, early parts of the '80s....Battle of Quebec, and later parts of the '80s.....Battle of Alberta.

But they were both great at the same time too, in the middle parts of the decade.
 
Gretzky was also injured. But Guy was a stud.
Gretzky and Carbonneau were both well past their best in 1993, though both were still good players.

Both were at their best at roughly the same time period, mid-'80s.

Carbonneau was at his best about '84 to '87.....and everybody knows when Gretzky was.
 
Gretzky had 4 of those points in game 1. So it would be 3 points in 4 games after that. Carbonneau could play against Gretzky. That was always Carbo's job, to match up against the best.

And it took a lot of luck for the Habs to win that Cup in 93. Buffalo defeated Boston, and made the road easier, NY Isles knocked off Pens, 2 time defending champs, making the road easier. Game 2 was the turning point, but it wasn't as though the Habs didn't come back from 2 down losing at home against Quebec to win that series. Patrick Roy is the main reason they won.

Yeah, Demers said after game 1 that Gretzky toyed with the habs.

If I remember correctly, muller had the assignment in game 1, and then it was carbonneau the rest of the way.

As someone mentioned earlier though, Wayne was injured and not the same player anymore, although still very good at his craft. The same can be said about carbo in that time period as well.
 

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