Can The Canucks Realistically Re-Sign the Sedins Without Delaying the Youth Movement?

[Blade Paradigm]

Now that the 2017-18 season is near its end and the team's late-season acquisitions have all made their case to be considerations for next season's roster, it may be reasonable now to evaluate where everyone might fit on the team in 2018-19. With players such as Brendan Leipsic and Tyler Motte signed next season -- and having shown their worth through a handful of games late this year -- we have less room than we might have previously anticipated. Additionally, rookies next year may include Adam Gaudette, Elias Pettersson, and even Jonathan Dahlen. With so many new players joining the team, as well as previously-signed veterans returning from injury, the roster will be clogged with competition.

The Sedin twins have apparently been given the option to make the final call as to whether or not they wish to return. If the team had no desire for them to return, I doubt that they would task them with the difficult and emotional process of deciding their own fate next season. The Sedins seem to have the final word as to what they would like to do.

Looking at the team's roster situation for next season, however, it is clear that there is no room for these two players to return unless other players are expected to be moved off of the roster. Even if we only were to expect one of our pending RFAs to return -- Jake Virtanen --, there would not be two spots available for the Sedins. If we are to sign additional RFAs, this provides even less room to accommodate the Sedins.

To bring the Sedins back would not only force the team to make moves to create space for their final stretch with the team, but also perhaps disrupt the current opportunities that young players would have to take their place on the team.

Furthermore, if this team drafts second or third overall and selects a forward -- namely, Svechnikov or Zadina --, that forward might need to be sent back to the CHL next season. I did not factor that into the forward group below, but that would be an additional factor if the scenario comes to fruition. If the team selects one of those two and keeps them in the NHL, I would expect one of the other young players, probably Dahlen, to be moved down to the AHL.

The two spots being vacated by the Sedins would go to Gaudette and Pettersson. Eriksson will return next season. One would reasonably anticipate Baertschi's return. Those two spots vacated by the Sedins would be taken by Gaudette and Pettersson; if Baertschi does not return, there may be an additional space for Dahlen.

Leipsic-Horvat-Boeser
Baertschi-XXXX-Goldobin
Eriksson-Gagner-XXXX
Motte-Sutter-Virtanen​

In other words:

Boeser-Horvat-Leipsic
Dahlen/Baertschi(RFA)-Gaudette-Goldobin
Eriksson(NTC)-Gagner-Pettersson
Motte-Sutter(NTC)-Virtanen(RFA)

Archibald (UFA)
Granlund (RFA)
Gaunce (RFA)
Boucher (RFA)
​

The purpose of having the Sedins on the roster next season would be to help mentor the young players, but the team might ironically have to leave its young players off of the roster to make room for them. The veterans are unmovable, plus there are RFAs to either re-sign or release; the most flexible place on the depth chart is among the young players (i.e., Dahlen, Pettersson, Gaudette).

I think that Leipsic could be a reasonable piece to explore long-term due to his playmaking talent, and Motte or Archibald provide at least one necessary player on a roster that lacks grit. Motte is 22 years old; he played 18:03 last night in a checking role against Connor McDavid and was fairly successful when on the ice with him. Overall, Motte's defensive game and mobility make him a noteworthy candidate for that gritty shutdown role that nobody else on the roster plays. We learned in the interval between Derek Dorsett's retirement and the signing of Darren Archibald that the team needs at least one forward of that kind. There is potential for him to develop into the type of checker that a successful team needs.

To sacrifice the development of two prospects for one year of the Sedins seems like a short-sighted move. To keep them on the team next year is an opportunity for them both to improve at the NHL level, and for the team to know what we have in those two players.

Goldobin's elevated play late this season makes him a likely opening lineup player next season, and this appears to be his final opportunity to remain with the Canucks. Virtanen, meanwhile, is at the point where his development should be at the NHL level.

The team would be delaying its youth transition, especially if some of those aforementioned young players are ready to play in the NHL and must instead wait due to the Sedins' return. Would it really make sense to bring the Sedins back next season?

Even if the only RFAs we retain are Baertschi and Virtanen, there will hardly be enough room for Dahlen and Pettersson. Baertschi would probably make Gaudette more likely to be sent down, and the Sedins would take Dahlen and Petterson's spots.

Boeser-Horvat-Leipsic
Sedin-Sedin-Goldobin
Baertschi-Gagner-Eriksson(NTC) (or Eriksson-Gaudette-Gagner)
Motte-Sutter(NTC)-Virtanen
​

The 2018-19 forward group would more than likely be very similar to the 2017-18 group if additional spots are not made. Is this what you would look forward to next season?

Click to read more...

 

[Verviticus]

yeah

 

[PG Canuck]

Sedins literally aren't stopping any prospect from making this team.

 

[StreetHawk]

The eriksson contract keeps him on the roster. Gagner, Canucks shave toneither eat that contract or take another one like his back and hope it works out better. Contractual obligations need to be resolved first before they even want to bring the t ins back IMO.

 

[iFan]

1 year deal for the Sedins is fine, anything longer than that and I say bye bye, enjoy retirement.

 

[Nuckles]

The only thing blocking the youth from coming in would be the never-ending acquisition of mediocre, easily replaceable depth players that are gifted spots on this roster and signed to embarrassing contracts.

 

[Eddy Punch Clock]

Isn't this like the 12th Sedin thread started since New Years?

It can only be asked or stated so many different ways.

Sharp asking Sedin for his stick after their game a week ago did get my attention tho...

 

[StreetHawk]

Isn't this like the 12th Sedin thread started since New Years?

It can only be asked or stated so many different ways.

Sharp asking Sedin for his stick after their game a week ago did get my attention tho...

Not mine. Sharp is old too. He’s playing on a 1 year $800k deal. He’s basically at the end of his career too. Maybe he’s been asking for sticks from other teams in the late stages of this season?

 

[ziploc]

Not mine. Sharp is old too. He’s playing on a 1 year $800k deal. He’s basically at the end of his career too. Maybe he’s been asking for sticks from other teams in the late stages of this season?

Step 1: Acquire all the sticks
Step 2: ??????
Step 3: Profit

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Not mine. Sharp is old too. He’s playing on a 1 year $800k deal. He’s basically at the end of his career too. Maybe he’s been asking for sticks from other teams in the late stages of this season?

or maybe he's sitting at home right now fuming that neither of the sedins asked him for his autographed stick in return?

 

[VanJack]

Sedins the low men on the totem pole for ice time in the Jackets game.....sill effective on the pp, and occasionally five-on-five when they get starts in the offensive zone.....but in the d-zone with Gagner as their winger it's not even mediocre, but a downright disaster......I guess if they come back for one last season it'll all come down to the contract numbers......but just not sure they can play the skating, pressure game Green wants to play....so their decision and the Canucks offer will be a watershed moment in Canucks history.

 

[Jevo]

The problem with the Sedins isn't that they aren't effective offensively, or won't be next year. The problem is that they are a huge liability defensively, so they are getting the most offensive zone starts on the team and are playing easy minutes. That's zone starts and minutes that you'd hope the young guys could get, so they can get eased into to the league. In the Canucks situation, you want veterans who can eat tough minutes, and the Sedins aren't those veterans. For that reason I hope they don't come back.

 

[F A N]

The problem with the Sedins isn't that they aren't effective offensively, or won't be next year. The problem is that they are a huge liability defensively, so they are getting the most offensive zone starts on the team and are playing easy minutes. That's zone starts and minutes that you'd hope the young guys could get, so they can get eased into to the league. In the Canucks situation, you want veterans who can eat tough minutes, and the Sedins aren't those veterans. For that reason I hope they don't come back.

The Sedins didn't stop Boeser from having high offensive zone deployment and it's not like he was a frequent linemate.

The Sedins, if productive offensively, will continue to draw prime defensive assignments. During the Cup run, AV was applauded for the way he utilized the Sedins. You think it's about giving the Sedins easy minutes?

In reality, if you look at the way that young players have been deployed here, their strategy hasn't been to give young players sheltered minutes. They want them to learn the defensive part of the game as well. Unless a player say Pettersson produces offensively like Boeser right off the bat, I don't think they will give him 16+ minutes with Boeser type offensive zone deployment. More likely, they are going to limit his minutes until he learns the defensive part of the game.

 

[me2]

Sedins staying or going won't matter. If more prospects spend a year in the AHL it won't harm much, the youth movement won't hit full power until the prospects are peaking.

 

[JuniorNelson]

Canucks have sucked since Sedins were extended. Canucks best forward demanded a trade as a result. He said, in his departure speech the team wouldn't be competitive for four more years. How did he know? Well, he knew the team's culture was an epic fail. It hasn't improved as the twins deteriorate. How is this not a leadership issue?

Do the Sedins block development? Yup, because guys won't come here and the team cannot evolve. So, without any support, the team is force fitting guys into roles they do not want. This team has lost two guys to Russia in the past year. WTH? Benning has gained a reputation as a fool because he agreed to rebuild around the Sedins. Imagine trying to sell a player on the Canucks. Hahaha!

Sedins are mentors? Are they mentoring Eriksson? Gagner? Most players skate away from the Sedins and have to hold the puck, waiting. What does that teach? Too slow to play but full of good advice describes a coach on most teams.

They are still productive. Is it because the team cannot attract a useful free agent? Since there is nobody else, the Sedins get key minutes. How are they at even strength? Have they chased down the puck this season? They lose possession a lot, now that they have slowed. Do other iconic leaders lose the puck and just glide over for a change? I know the Sedins can hustle, it's the other eighty games I'm talking about.

Will they accept third line salaries? Of course not! They are going to want the same money. Don't pretend it's about anything else, that is naïve. You might as well claim they want to go on a Cup run.

Let the Sedins explore free agency. They know there is no market for them because nobody has asked for them in a trade for years. Many years! When this is demonstrated again, they will go to Europe or retire.

As a side note, of course Linden and Benning want them back! If Sedins retired they would become unemployed. What impact would that have on the Presidency and General Manager positions? Benning and Linden aren't going to outsmart anybody, especially smart hockey men like the Sedins. They know this. Henrik could announce he will be the new GM and only face questions about where Daniel fits. Nobody would miss Benning or Linden.

 

[MS]

The problem with the Sedins isn't that they aren't effective offensively, or won't be next year. The problem is that they are a huge liability defensively, so they are getting the most offensive zone starts on the team and are playing easy minutes. That's zone starts and minutes that you'd hope the young guys could get, so they can get eased into to the league. In the Canucks situation, you want veterans who can eat tough minutes, and the Sedins aren't those veterans. For that reason I hope they don't come back.

Yup. Having a rebuilding team needing to develop young forwards and instead giving 75% o-zone starts to a pair of 38 y/o defensive liabilities is insane.

 

[Cupless44]

Canucks have sucked since Sedins were extended. Canucks best forward demanded a trade as a result. He said, in his departure speech the team wouldn't be competitive for four more years. How did he know? Well, he knew the team's culture was an epic fail. It hasn't improved as the twins deteriorate. How is this not a leadership issue?

Do the Sedins block development? Yup, because guys won't come here and the team cannot evolve. So, without any support, the team is force fitting guys into roles they do not want. This team has lost two guys to Russia in the past year. WTH? Benning has gained a reputation as a fool because he agreed to rebuild around the Sedins. Imagine trying to sell a player on the Canucks. Hahaha!

Sedins are mentors? Are they mentoring Eriksson? Gagner? Most players skate away from the Sedins and have to hold the puck, waiting. What does that teach? Too slow to play but full of good advice describes a coach on most teams.

They are still productive. Is it because the team cannot attract a useful free agent? Since there is nobody else, the Sedins get key minutes. How are they at even strength? Have they chased down the puck this season? They lose possession a lot, now that they have slowed. Do other iconic leaders lose the puck and just glide over for a change? I know the Sedins can hustle, it's the other eighty games I'm talking about.

Will they accept third line salaries? Of course not! They are going to want the same money. Don't pretend it's about anything else, that is naïve. You might as well claim they want to go on a Cup run.

Let the Sedins explore free agency. They know there is no market for them because nobody has asked for them in a trade for years. Many years! When this is demonstrated again, they will go to Europe or retire.

As a side note, of course Linden and Benning want them back! If Sedins retired they would become unemployed. What impact would that have on the Presidency and General Manager positions? Benning and Linden aren't going to outsmart anybody, especially smart hockey men like the Sedins. They know this. Henrik could announce he will be the new GM and only face questions about where Daniel fits. Nobody would miss Benning or Linden.

I really have to agree.

Let me first say I appreciate and respect their careers as Canucks. We all do. But after 17-18 years of this act it really is time to turn the page for a fresh new era for this team.

And while I understand they deserve a certain amount of respect to decide what they want, the Sedins are not bigger than the team. Not sure about others, but I am sick already of waiting to hear what the Sedins want, what the Sedins decide. This rebuild needs to get moving. The days of catering to what the Sedins want is over.

They still have some good moments but I am bored out of my mind of the make up of this team. This team has been mentored to the bottom of the NHL for a few years now. Enough also of watching them plod along out there in a fast, young league. When I get interested in a Canuck shift is when Horvat and Boeser hit the ice...or the potential of Gaudette and Virtanen flying around out there....or to see if a Pettersson or Lind can make an impact next year.

Other teams throw young players into the line up and into the fire unhesitatingly. But for some reason in Vancouver we have to ride stale veterans into the ground. I could almost understand this old traditional thought process of veteran mentorship if this team didn’t have the worst record in the NHL over the past 3 years.

Please, for the good of the future and some bloody entertainment value just move on.

 

[Hollywood Burrows]

Bring them back next year and reduce their OZ starts, make them play tougher minutes. Why exactly would it be bad if they get caved in? Does anyone here actually think the team should be trying to win games next season?

 

[RandV]

Technically we have a lot of guys coming in from Europe or college, so it really isn't going to 'delay' anything if you sign the Sedin's to 1 year deals and a few more kids get some AHL time.

A bigger youth delaying move would be using the freed up cash to sign another Loui Eriksson.

 

[M2Beezy]

yeah

Baertchi Horvat Boeser
Dahlen Gaudette PBP
Goldy Sutter Lipesic
Clamato Gaunce Virtanen
Eriksson Gagner

 

[Nucker101]

The Sedins greatest value to this team on the ice nowadays is as playmakers on the PP. Their 5v5 play is mediocre at best considering the zone starts they get and how they still manage to get lit up for goals against despite soft serve minutes.

If they’re okay with being used as basically a 4th line at 5v5 + PP1 time then it makes sense to me. They did help Boeser and Horvat score goals on the PP this season. The 2nd unit even with Horvat on it, struggles to control the puck in the offensive zone due to lack of skill/patience.

If I’m Green/Benning, I tell them they’ll be used sparingly at 5v5 and as PP specialists. Show them the 5v5 data to back up your stance. If they’re okay with that then sure bring them back. Their off ice work ethic sets a great example for the young guys.

If they say that they believe they deserve a bigger role than that, then I’d would make the tough call and let them enter free agency or retire.

As for roster space, I don’t see it as a huge problem. If they agreed to the conditions above and re-sign, you have 9 forwards who are pretty much locked in as sure things next year.

Henrik, Daniel, Eriksson, Horvat, Boeser, Baertschi, Sutter, Gagner, Virtanen(waiver eligible). The rest of the fringe players and prospects should be battling for the final 4 roster spots up front(13 forwards). Anyone who can’t beat out fringe players and prospects in camp to earn 1 of 4 spots shouldn’t be a player that you lose sleep over if you have to waive them and/or send to the AHL.

Even if Benning signs a UFA forward, that still leaves 3 spots up for grabs. And there would be plenty of mins available at 5v5 since the Sedins would agree to a lesser role in this scenario.


TLDR:
• Offer Sedins 1 year deals in lesser role(4th line + PP1)
• Still leaves 3-4 roster spots up for grabs
• No need to stress over waiving fringe players who can’t win jobs in camp
• More 5v5 mins/opportunities available for players with reduced mins for Sedins

 

[cc]

it wouldn't be bad if the Sedins resigned at a much lower cap hit. the worst that i see happening is some kids start out in Utica and called up for the inevitable injuries and Canucks are crappy for another year. It would be good long term if the Canucks had a talented farm club to bring up prospects that are deserving of being rewarded with a call up.

 

[Cupless44]

The Sedins greatest value to this team on the ice nowadays is as playmakers on the PP. Their 5v5 play is mediocre at best considering the zone starts they get and how they still manage to get lit up for goals against despite soft serve minutes.

If they’re okay with being used as basically a 4th line at 5v5 + PP1 time then it makes sense to me. They did help Boeser and Horvat score goals on the PP this season. The 2nd unit even with Horvat on it, struggles to control the puck in the offensive zone due to lack of skill/patience.

If I’m Green/Benning, I tell them they’ll be used sparingly at 5v5 and as PP specialists. Show them the 5v5 data to back up your stance. If they’re okay with that then sure bring them back. Their off ice work ethic sets a great example for the young guys.

If they say that they believe they deserve a bigger role than that, then I’d would make the tough call and let them enter free agency or retire.

As for roster space, I don’t see it as a huge problem. If they agreed to the conditions above and re-sign, you have 9 forwards who are pretty much locked in as sure things next year.

Henrik, Daniel, Eriksson, Horvat, Boeser, Baertschi, Sutter, Gagner, Virtanen(waiver eligible). The rest of the fringe players and prospects should be battling for the final 4 roster spots up front(13 forwards). Anyone who can’t beat out fringe players and prospects in camp to earn 1 of 4 spots shouldn’t be a player that you lose sleep over if you have to waive them and/or send to the AHL.

Even if Benning signs a UFA forward, that still leaves 3 spots up for grabs. And there would be plenty of mins available at 5v5 since the Sedins would agree to a lesser role in this scenario.


TLDR:
• Offer Sedins 1 year deals in lesser role(4th line + PP1)
• Still leaves 3-4 roster spots up for grabs
• No need to stress over waiving fringe players who can’t win jobs in camp
• More 5v5 mins/opportunities available for players with reduced mins for Sedins

With that forward group you list, how do you bring back the same group next year? How do you even sell that? What would possibly be different from this season?

 

[Snatcher Demko]

Yes, I think they would delay the youth movement at this stage, and that's simply because we have too many young forwards on the team. They can't really be relegated to 3rd or 4th line role or minutes either. Players like Gaunce and Leipsic need to learn how to PK and play good defensive minutes too. Petterson, Gaudette, Baertschi, Goldobin and even Virtanen need more PP time.

Generally here's the forward group (not accounting for RW/LW fits)

Petterson-Horvat-Boeser
Baertschi-Gaudette-Virtanen
Granlund-Sutter-Eriksson
Goldy-Gaunce-Leipsic

Archibald
Dowd
Gagner

I really don't see where you can fit the Sedins in that group without stunting development and/or giving away good assets. Obviously you'd want to get rid of Eriksson, but it isn't bloody likely, and fact is he's still a good two-way winger who can skate and could be a good fit on any line with our rookies or 2nd year players.


And frankly, I see this team improving offensively next year without the Sedins. The Canucks can focus on increasing their team speed and play a style that is more geared towards success in today's league. You give the kids more room to grow and as history has shown over and over again, the kids will indeed grow.

 

[Nucker101]

With that forward group you list, how do you bring back the same group next year? How do you even sell that? What would possibly be different from this season?

I’m not interested in “selling”, do what’s best for the team even if it hurts fan interest in the short term. If you can find a bargain bin UFA who could be flipped at the TDL along with MDZ then sign one.

No more 3+ year UFA contracts until this team is showing real signs of rising. 1-2 years max terms.

If a kid like Gaudette/EP/Dahlen has a great camp, don’t be afraid to waive a waiver eligible player or 2 who got outplayed(Granlund, Archibald, Motte, Leipsic, etc.).

Trying to sell tickets is what got us Eriksson allmg with trading away picks/prospects for role players and AHL/NHL tweeners who aren’t real difference makers.

Also, I’m perfectly fine with letting the Sedins walk/retire as well. I don’t think bringing them back for 1 more year is crucial to this team’s long term success, if anything it would potentially improve 5v5 play.