Can someone explain to me How the ECHL works?

[pagegallagher15]

Or atleast give me an understanding

I was convinced when the Leafs got their new affiliate in Newfoundland, all the players they we had the right too would come up from Orlando.

But everywhere i look it seems the Growlers are just made up for Newfoundlanders and random players at the moment. What happened to the players on Orlando.

i was under the impression the ECHL worked just like the AHL to the NHL, call up players when they are needed and stuff. but doesnt seem like the case.

Can someone shed some light a little here?

 

[210]

Only players under contract to the Leafs or Marlies would make the move from Orlando to the Growlers...any player whose contract rights were held by Orlando would stay in Orlando, subject to the qualifying offer rules.

 

[cynicalcitizen]

Very few ECHL players belong to the NHL team by contract. The majority of those players are on ECHL contracts having nothing to do with the affiliate club.

 

[LadyStanley]

Depends on the organization. (NHL Sharks) AHL Barracuda currently have 2 AHL TOs and 26 players on the roster in camp. Expect another 4-5 players when the NHL squad makes their final cuts. So that's perhaps 6+ players they plan to find a place to play in the ECHL. Without an official affiliate, they'll be scattering those guys around the league. Unless there are a lot of NHL and/or AHL injuries/trades, probably won't need to recall any ECHL guys on TOs to play in AHL (they'll recall one of their guys under contract, either NHL ELS or AHL).

In many years, it seems than only a small handful of players actually not under contract get called up to their AHL affiliate.

YMMV

 

[BruinsFan37]

Varies by team, but with a max of 50 contracts... You figure 23-24 on the NHL team (20 dressed + spares), if all/most of the AHL team is under contract with the parent team that leaves very few contracts to assign to the ECHL team.

Most common application of the ECHL team is a place to put your goalie prospects so they can get some starts. i.e. it's better to be the ECHL starter than the AHL backup and riding the pine for most games.

So most players in the ECHL are under contract with the ECHL team only. Usually made of up players that haven't quite given up on the dream yet. That's why the average age in the ECHL is actually a little older than the AHL.

Playoffs in the ECHL can be screwy. Players signed to the ECHL team only can called up by any AHL team, so you'll frequently see a lot of callups from the ECHL to the AHL when players on the AHL team get called up to the parent club for the playoffs. Which can sometimes play havoc with a playoff teams chances.

 

[LadyStanley]

@BruinsFan37 NHL roster max is 23 (until TDL). So if you're saying max is 24, that's a guy on LTIR/IR.

20-23 on NHL. 20ish NHL + 5 or so AHL contracts in AHL (no contract limit in AHL; but practically... 2G + 8D + 15F is probably max, excluding injuries). Any extras would be in ECHL (or assigned to other AHL teams).

 

[royals119]

I would add that some organizations make use of AHL contracts more than others. Since the Maple Leafs own the Marlies and they are in the same city, they tend to do that more than most. Typical AHL contracts are for one or two years, so there is still a lot of turnover with those players too. This is where a lot of your Growlers will come from - players signed to AHL contracts by the Marlies.

The number of ECHL contracted players who get a try out in the AHL varies due to a lot of factors. In some past years the entire Reading Royals roster had try outs during a season. Part of that was geography. Reading was the closest ECHL team to about half of the AHL at the time. Part of it was AHL philosophy. AHL teams at the time only carried enough players for their active roster. Any injury or callup meant they needed another body, and they would grab an ECHL player to fill the hole. Now most teams carry some extra players, and have a few AHL contracts assigned to the ECHL, so the opportunities for try outs are fewer.

 

[Growler]

@royals119 is correct. The Toronto/Growlers situation is relatively unique because of Dubas' and the Big Club's philosophy. The Growlers are going to be stocked by AHL contracts from the Marlies and relatively few players contracted to the Growlers themselves. The ECHL has a strict salary cap, as such, an ECHL contracted player at most makes ~$30,000 per year (paid weekly) plus per diem and living expenses. When an AHL contracted player is sent to the ECHL affiliate the ECHL team pays the the AHL team his ECHL salary limit and the AHL team pays the rest. So, in theory, you could have a player making $1 million playing in the ECHL, but that ECHL team only pays the ~$30,000 cap amount.

So, what Dubas is doing is finding a bunch of players who the organization thinks have potential, sign them to AHL contracts (where there is no salary cap) and develop them with the Growlers if they cannot make the Marlies.

So, the players that you noticed the Growlers sign are indeed local Newfoundland boys for marketing purposes, who are good enough to play in the ECHL (or potentially higher), but want to play at home, and the Marlies do not quite have them high enough on their radar to offer AHL contracts (at least not yet).

Last year, Dubas sent 12 players to the Solar Bears over the year who were under Marlie AHL contracts. This was a lot. The next closest were the Islanders system who sent 8 AHL players and 1 NHL player (who Ironically Dubas traded for in the Martin trade and will be on the Growlers this year - McAdam) to the ECHL Railers. However, this year, expect that 12 number to increase with the Growlers. I expect as many as 16-18 players under AHL/NHL contracts to play on the Rock at some point this year.

It's the development philosophy of the Leafs at work. Not too many franchises leverage their ECHL affiliate as much as the Leafs do. Some clubs don't have ECHL affiliates and will send their guys wherever. Most other clubs will send only a few to the ECHL; they simply don't have the budget the Marlies have to over-sign, as such don't have a lot of extra players. These clubs will call-up ECHL players from all sorts of clubs for PTOs whenever they need help filling out the roster. The Marlies must lose a lot of money every year -- a loss leader at the cost of developing players and trying to find hidden talents.

 

[Growler]

I just found this article published yesterday which basically validates what I posted above:

"...But with the expansion Growlers, the new ECHL affiliate of the Toronto Maple Leafs, Snowden figures he’s going to be in for something different.
“The way (Maple Leafs general manager) Kyle Dubas and (Toronto team president) Brendan Shanahan are projecting how they want their minor-league system, I think they are away of ahead of everyone else,” said Snowden. “They’re actually determined to use (the ECHL) as a developmental league more than anyone has ever done before.
“When I played in league, you might get — in my personal opinion — one or two guys who might have been at the tail end of entry-level deals and weren’t really in plans of the NHL team.
“That’s changed … it’s still changing, but with the Maple Leafs, it seems like they’re taking it to another level.
“They see it as a starting point for developing players. They want to get them up to the (AHL’s Toronto) Marlies and from there, they want to see players eventually progress onto the National Hockey League.”
...
“And again, I couldn’t believe in the Maple Leafs’ (minor-league) process any more than I did. I think it’s genius … ahead of its time.
“There are other organizations that are doing some of the same sort of thing. You look at Pittsburgh and the way the use Wilkes-Barre (the Penguins’ AHL farm team) and Wheeling (Nailers, the team’s ECHL affiliate). And Toronto put a lot of stock into Orlando. They’d have anywhere from 10 to 13 players there.
“But I think it’s going to be even moreso here. I can’t tell you the numbers, but there will be a lot of players (from the Leafs/Marlies), players they have plans for...."


BRENDAN McCARTHY: New Growlers assistant likes the Leafs’ vision | The Telegram

 

[210]

The key with skaters on AHL/ECHL contracts is they have to play in 5 AHL games or they are ineligible for the ECHL playoffs (a team can exempt two players from that requirement). Players on NHL deals, AHL one-way deals, and goaltenders are also exempt.

 

[Growler]

The key with skaters on AHL/ECHL contracts is they have to play in 5 AHL games or they are ineligible for the ECHL playoffs (a team can exempt two players from that requirement). Players on NHL deals, AHL one-way deals, and goaltenders are also exempt.

That's interesting. AHL player on one way deals but who otherwise played the entire season in the ECHL are eligible for the playoffs, but players on 2 way AHL/ECHL deal MUST play in at least 5 AHL games. So, I read that as an arrangement to ensure players who get paid less on their ECHL stay are given a legitimate opportunity in the AHL, and not just promised a false claim for a shot and more money.

 

[Kshahdoo]

Is there any age requirements for the league? I mean, must player be 18 or older? Or can he be U18 to play in the ECHL?

 

[210]

Is there any age requirements for the league? I mean, must player be 18 or older? Or can he be U18 to play in the ECHL?

Must be 18 by September 15th to play in the ECHL for that season (same rule as the AHL)

 

[royals119]

Except that an NHL signed player aged 18 or 19 who was claimed from a CHL club and is not playing for the NHL club, must be assigned to the CHL junior club whom he last played for or owes a contractual obligation to. Players signed by NHL teams who played college or European hockey can be assigned to the AHL or ECHL at 18 or 19. Players can sign AHL or ECHL contracts at 18 or 19.

From a practical standpoint I can't remember a player younger than 20 playing for the Royals, and even 20 year olds are uncommon.

 

[Growler]

Except that an NHL signed player aged 18 or 19 who was claimed from a CHL club and is not playing for the NHL club, must be assigned to the CHL junior club whom he last played for or owes a contractual obligation to. Players signed by NHL teams who played college or European hockey can be assigned to the AHL or ECHL at 18 or 19. Players can sign AHL or ECHL contracts at 18 or 19.

From a practical standpoint I can't remember a player younger than 20 playing for the Royals, and even 20 year olds are uncommon.

The Growlers have a couple 20 year olds. I think it is part of how Dubas is changing the league. He is going to sign more Europeans out of the CHL (and Europe) who are 20 or younger. Another way he is changing it is essentially making it somewhat into an AHL club. For example, 16 AHL (Marlie) and 1 NHL (Leaf) contracted players have, or are, playing for the Growlers. That is a record, no doubt. And they're usually the youngest team in the league plus or minus an EBUG or injury loan here or there.

 

[royals119]

The Growlers have a couple 20 year olds. I think it is part of how Dubas is changing the league. He is going to sign more Europeans out of the CHL (and Europe) who are 20 or younger. Another way he is changing it is essentially making it somewhat into an AHL club. For example, 16 AHL (Marlie) and 1 NHL (Leaf) contracted players have, or are, playing for the Growlers. That is a record, no doubt. And they're usually the youngest team in the league plus or minus an EBUG or injury loan here or there.

When I first started watching the league, 18 years ago, there used to be a lot more major junior players coming to the ECHL. Either guys who were never drafted, or drafted by never signed. Over the last several years it has shifted toward mostly NCAA college graduates. There were a couple years where it was more difficult for teams to get visas for Canadian players, which probably drove some of that change, but I think that issue was resolved a while back.

 

[Growler]

When I first started watching the league, 18 years ago, there used to be a lot more major junior players coming to the ECHL. Either guys who were never drafted, or drafted by never signed. Over the last several years it has shifted toward mostly NCAA college graduates. There were a couple years where it was more difficult for teams to get visas for Canadian players, which probably drove some of that change, but I think that issue was resolved a while back.

The CHL 20 year old rule protected the CHL's interests. Going forward, the 20 year old rule does not apply to Europeans and Dubas has begun to exploit.

I think the ECHL was also a goon league in the past but the game has completely changed there which should make it more welcoming to younger players. GMs more willing to put their assets there.

I think Dubas is also looking to make the team (league) more friendly to Europeans willing to cross the pond. This has always been an issue.

I think some people are down on the ECHL, but I think it is going to get a lot stronger as NHL teams leverage it more, and because AHL teams are all moving close to their NHL affiliate which will open up lots of good hockey towns for the ECHL to backfill (e.g. Norfolk, St. Johns etc.)

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

I think some people are down on the ECHL, but I think it is going to get a lot stronger as NHL teams leverage it more, and because AHL teams are all moving close to their NHL affiliate which will open up lots of good hockey towns for the ECHL to backfill (e.g. Norfolk, St. Johns etc.)

Some cities like the league and some don't. It's good for markets that want to see a bit more physical hockey with guys trying a bit harder despite a lower skill level than the prospects focused on developing skill that the AHL has now become. Some ECHL markets like Fort Wayne have a history going back decades of preferring the lower skill level but players with more motivation. It honestly depends on the market.

Manchester won the Calder Cup in their last season and went from 5,500 people/game and have lost on average 1,000/game each year since. Can't be team performance since the EC Narchs have had good playoff runs each season and the old AHL team only missed the post-season once in 15 or so years. Norfolk had a similar attendance dip but ownership improved and it bounced back this year. It's a bit early into the Maine experiment to see how Portland will fare, but Newfoundland has a ton of Newfoundland natives on the team and sold out their first game with around 4,000 butts in seats each game last time I checked.

 

[210]

There were a couple years where it was more difficult for teams to get visas for Canadian players, which probably drove some of that change, but I think that issue was resolved a while back.

It's still a major PITA...

 

[210]

Some cities like the league and some don't. It's good for markets that want to see a bit more physical hockey with guys trying a bit harder despite a lower skill level than the prospects focused on developing skill that the AHL has now become. Some ECHL markets like Fort Wayne have a history going back decades of preferring the lower skill level but players with more motivation. It honestly depends on the market.

Manchester won the Calder Cup in their last season and went from 5,500 people/game and have lost on average 1,000/game each year since. Can't be team performance since the EC Narchs have had good playoff runs each season and the old AHL team only missed the post-season once in 15 or so years. Norfolk had a similar attendance dip but ownership improved and it bounced back this year. It's a bit early into the Maine experiment to see how Portland will fare, but Newfoundland has a ton of Newfoundland natives on the team and sold out their first game with around 4,000 butts in seats each game last time I checked.

The problem in Manchester is the local front office killed that team...I think they need a rebrand (hmmm, Manchester Bruins, maybe) to wash away the stink of past business failures.

 

[PCSPounder]

Most of what's written above squares with my understanding. Most ECHL teams only have a few NHL-invested players under contract, and goalies are the prominent players NHL teams want kept.

I know from my time in Boise that the Steelheads wanted maximum input in personnel decisions, they're in it to win.

BTW... transition from WCHL to ECHL was pretty much night and day in terms of goon hockey versus development-minded players... and that was about 15 years ago.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

The problem in Manchester is the local front office killed that team...I think they need a rebrand (hmmm, Manchester Bruins, maybe) to wash away the stink of past business failures.

Don't know much about the ownership group in Manchester. Bruins affiliation would be nice (but they're with Atlanta until 2019), since NH is slowly turning into Boston suburbs. There is a mold for success. Local owner(s), good branding, community involvement, and local guys on the team. Fresh branding did work very well for the Railers, and the Yard Goats in Hartford.

Have you been to any Railers games this season? It sounds like the owner is emotionally and financially invested in the city, which locals have received positively and probably played a hand in getting the PawSox choosing to join him. I've played a few games at their new practice rink and it looks pretty packed for ice time. At least 2 men's NCAA teams, a couple local high schools and prep schools, what looked like a women's semi-pro team, full complement of youth hockey. It looks like they're doing a decent job and is something other former AHL markets now with EC teams should follow.

 

[Growler]

Most of what's written above squares with my understanding. Most ECHL teams only have a few NHL-invested players under contract, and goalies are the prominent players NHL teams want kept.

I have been tracking it. The trend is increasing. Last year, the average was ~3 AHL/NHL contracted players on an ECHL roster. This year, the average is ~4. The bigger ones: Newfoundland - 17, Cincinnati - 12, Utah - 8, Toledo -8, Tulsa - 7. No coincidence, those are the top teams in the league.
My point is that I believe this is a trend. I think more NHL teams will pump more resources into the ECHL. I also believe it will create a haves and have-nots situation with the clubs. I think the ECHL will get stronger, but maybe smaller too. Not sure.

 

[210]

Don't know much about the ownership group in Manchester. Bruins affiliation would be nice (but they're with Atlanta until 2019), since NH is slowly turning into Boston suburbs. There is a mold for success. Local owner(s), good branding, community involvement, and local guys on the team. Fresh branding did work very well for the Railers, and the Yard Goats in Hartford.

Have you been to any Railers games this season? It sounds like the owner is emotionally and financially invested in the city, which locals have received positively and probably played a hand in getting the PawSox choosing to join him. I've played a few games at their new practice rink and it looks pretty packed for ice time. At least 2 men's NCAA teams, a couple local high schools and prep schools, what looked like a women's semi-pro team, full complement of youth hockey. It looks like they're doing a decent job and is something other former AHL markets now with EC teams should follow.

All the home games. That women's team is the CWHL Worcester Blades.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

Don't know much about the ownership group in Manchester. Bruins affiliation would be nice (but they're with Atlanta until 2019), since NH is slowly turning into Boston suburbs. There is a mold for success. Local owner(s), good branding, community involvement, and local guys on the team. Fresh branding did work very well for the Railers, and the Yard Goats in Hartford.

Have you been to any Railers games this season? It sounds like the owner is emotionally and financially invested in the city, which locals have received positively and probably played a hand in getting the PawSox choosing to join him. I've played a few games at their new practice rink and it looks pretty packed for ice time. At least 2 men's NCAA teams, a couple local high schools and prep schools, what looked like a women's semi-pro team, full complement of youth hockey. It looks like they're doing a decent job and is something other former AHL markets now with EC teams should follow.

The Manchester owners have been selling the echl team to the locals like the ahl team is still there its been a big Mistake