Calling out Ovi

[ZeroPucksGiven]

I don't see how it makes sense to rate a single game performance based on someones previously underwhelming playoff career.

You're confirming that you've made your mind up and 'he didn't do the little things' is your go-to answer no matter what actually happened in that game.

From your post:
"Sound like an unquantifiable argument that can be made anytime any player's team loses no matter how he actually played."

I just cited a specific game with specific examples that are quantifiable. He dogged it on both the goals against

Your supposition is that Ovi comes to play every playoff game. That is my evidence to counter that

 

[Rodgerwilco]

I don't see how it makes sense to rate a single game performance based on someones previously underwhelming playoff career.

You're confirming that you've made your mind up and 'he didn't do the little things' is your go-to answer no matter what actually happened in that game.

I never said I'm rating a single game performance based on his previous career? I said I've watched him over the course of a decade and I have come to the conclusion that is one of the biggest problems. It's an issue of his, and that's why, in my opinion, he'll not win until he's a supporting player and not the #1 guy.

The point here is that stat-watching isn't a substitute for seeing a player's effort in context.


Also, you don't know me. That's not my "go-to" answer whatsoever. You shouldn't assume things about people.

 

[unknown33]

I just cited a specific game with specific examples that are quantifiable. He dogged it on both the goals against

I'm talking about the CBJ vs Pits game where some posters said 'even though he scored twice he didn't do those little things' or something like that.
Are there examples from that game?

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Ovechkin has produced in almost every playoffs he has been in. I'd call out a lot of other players that disappear from Wash than him and also for sure the coach.

Trotz has been such a success in reg season but such and utter disaster in the playoffs.

The thing is that I really wanted Trotz for the Pens, badly wanted him, when he became available. The game has passed him by though. The new game is speed and forgoing checking lines for scoring up and down the lineup. I still keep hearing defense wins championships, and when the Pens face (San Jose, Nashville, fill in the blank with some other greatest defense ever) THEN they will learn that what they are doing can not work when it counts. True, the Pens have players to make it work, but it is not like the Caps have not, and do not, have players of that kind of skill, speed, etc.

Trotz is part of the problem, and the coaches that they had prior were much the same.

 

[unknown33]

I never said I'm rating a single game performance based on his previous career? I said I've watched him over the course of a decade and I have come to the conclusion that is one of the biggest problems. It's an issue of his, and that's why, in my opinion, he'll not win until he's a supporting player and not the #1 guy.

The point here is that stat-watching isn't a substitute for seeing a player's effort in context.

I agree with that in general and it was true in game 1. Can't see how this is valid criticism for game 2.

 

[Rodgerwilco]

I agree with that in general and it was true in game 1. Can't see how this is valid criticism for game 2.

I didn't say it was valid for every single game. I was just piggy-backing on the idea that watching stats can be misleading without context of watching a player.

A young friend of mine did an in-depth analysis of (seemingly) every advanced statistic, offensive, defensive metrics you can think of comparing Crosby and McDavid, and came to the conclusion that McDavid has "surpassed" Crosby based on nothing but numbers... He then he admits openly that he only watches Crosby play about 3-4 regular season games a year. He simply cannot understand that hockey is so much more than stat-watching.

 

[Habs 4 Life]

Says the guy whose team's Captain is Patches lmao.

And is on the block and will most probably be traded.
No worries, Pacioretty is not any better when in comes time to post season, you won't get a Habs fans saying otherwise.

 

[bur and 666 others]

That was a definitive Alexander Ovechkin playoff game. He got his cookies - 2 one-timers on the powerplay to score. Then when opportunity presented itself to actually win the game, he disappeared. Add another OT loss in his belt. The stat crunchers will look back on this series and say - we'll he did score so you can't call him a choker. But stat counting and watching the effort on the ice are different things.

Ovechkin has been playing the same brand of hockey for the last 10+ years. He isn't changing. The results aren't changing either. If hes ever getting past the second round it will be on the back of better players.

I'm a caps fan and it's painful to admit, but you are right. Jesus, Ovie, start scoring overtime goals for a change. There are overtimes and the caps do nothing, I just knew they would score a thing and just wait to be scored on. My friend from Russia, who saw the first time the caps playoffs hockey last night, was telling me that the caps looked so much like team Russia (hockey, soccer and etc) that is allergic to score in overtimes.

 

[Fantomas]

If Grubauer knew how to stop a beach ball, this wouldn't be a thread.

This.

 

[Anisimovs AK]

Ovechkin was the best player on the ice besides Bobrovsky in game 2.

I even said in the main board GDT, he's too good and too proud a player to have another dud performance like he did in game 1.

2 goals, 12 shots and 6 hits later, and we are still blaming him for the Caps loss? Shake my head.

The Blue Jackets as a team had 27 shots on goal. He, himself, had 12. Also, he was great at pressuring the puck and forcing turnovers, made a mini breakaway out of nothing late in the 3rd period doing just that.

As a CBJ fan, he is not the problem. Wilson's dumb penalties and Trotz choosing Grubuaer over Holtby (who leads active goalies in save percentage btw) are why the Caps are down in the series.

 

[Sentinel]

Why don't people call out Oshie, Backstrom, Kuznetsov, and Burakovsky? All I see is "Ovy, Ovy, Ovy" with a dose of Grubauer.

 

[daver]

Why don't people call out Oshie, Backstrom, Kuznetsov, and Burakovsky? All I see is "Ovy, Ovy, Ovy" with a dose of Grubauer.

When a player is touted as a GOAT one expects to see playoff performances that compliments that claim. He is going to be under the most scrutiny as he has the highest expectations.

 

[DitchMarner]

I didn't say it was valid for every single game. I was just piggy-backing on the idea that watching stats can be misleading without context of watching a player.

A young friend of mine did an in-depth analysis of (seemingly) every advanced statistic, offensive, defensive metrics you can think of comparing Crosby and McDavid, and came to the conclusion that McDavid has "surpassed" Crosby based on nothing but numbers... He then he admits openly that he only watches Crosby play about 3-4 regular season games a year. He simply cannot understand that hockey is so much more than stat-watching.

I think that as a hockey talent, McDavid is superior to Crosby at this point (and not just offensively). However, as a veteran, Crosby has some intangibles and experience the he lacks. So far Crosby has been good in the playoffs, but he will have to keep it up to prove McDavid hasn't surpassed him after the regular season both had.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Why don't people call out Oshie, Backstrom, Kuznetsov, and Burakovsky? All I see is "Ovy, Ovy, Ovy" with a dose of Grubauer.

It's not entirely right that he gets the brunt of the blame, but being the face of the franchise (wearing the C as well) and generational talent puts him the crosshairs, fair or not. And quite frankly, he hasn't been better than average in the postseason in years now. 2 goals yesterday but both came on the PP. He simply doesn't impact the game enough at ES anymore. Plain reality.

The Caps are a dumpster fire right now. Trotz is overrated and always has been. Ovechkin floats to much. The secondary talent is hit or miss (largely the latter). They can't get key saves in the biggest moments.

 

[ChiefWiggum]

The game two loss wasn't Ovi's fault. Hisd role is to score goals and he did that. Giving up a multi-goal lead in two games is not Ovechkin's fault.

 

[daver]

McDavid is a better hockey player than Crosby. Crosby is a veteran on a team that has guys who have won and has depth.

Based on what? He certainly isn't in the playoffs.

 

[Haj]

All of the following is Ovechkin's fault:

Trotz playing a sub optimal line up:
- Tom Wilson in a scoring role
- Brooks Orpik failing to clear the crease against unstoppable physical force Thomas Vanek
- Grubauer in net for two games, where he played like a back up
Undisciplined penalties that lead to Columbus's comeback in both games.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I think that as a hockey talent, McDavid is superior to Crosby at this point (and not just offensively). However, as a veteran, Crosby has some intangibles and experience the he lacks. So far Crosby has been good in the playoffs, but he will have to keep it up to prove McDavid hasn't surpassed him after the regular season both had.

At this point in their careers one has something to prove and the other has been there, done that and is focused on the right kind of trophies.

It is beyond obvious that the Pens, especially their stars, coasted the regular season as many of us predicted and said multiple times. Meanwhile Ovechkin was still trying to add goals in the last game.

For THAT you can call Ovi out perhaps. But overall everything but Ovechkin has been the real issue of why the Caps have not sniffed the third round in this era.

 

[DitchMarner]

Based on what? He certainly isn't in the playoffs.

Consider context. Game one of this year's Pens/Flyers series: Crosby scores a natural hattrick after his team has already broken the opponent. In game two, was he really any better than Ovechkin was in game one against CLB He had a big goal and assist in game three, but his team as a whole is rolling and it's not as he is carrying PIT to success. Even Brian f'n Dumolin has five points already, with a +5 rating. Crosby will always get the benefit of the doubt, but to me he really wasn't close to McDavid during the RS and Connor wasn't the only player who outperformed him.

 

[daver]

Consider context. Game one of this year's Pens/Flyers series: Crosby scores a natural hattrick after his team has already broken the opponent. In game two, was he really any better than Ovechkin was in game one against CLB He had a big goal and assist in game three, but his team as a whole is rolling and it's not as he is carrying PIT to success. Even Brian f'n Dumolin has five points already, with a +5 rating. Crosby will always get the benefit of the doubt, but to me he really wasn't close to McDavid during the RS and Connor wasn't the only player who outperformed him.

And what has McDavid done to show he can meet Crosby's level in the playoffs? Score a ton of points after his team is done for the year?

Noone gives a shit that Crosby had an off year production-wise because they know it's all about the Cup.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

The Ovechkin criticism is reaching ridiculous levels. Next thing we'll hear is that it's Ovechkin's fault if Grubauer couldn't make a glove save in the series. It's also Ovechkin's fault if the PK has allowed a goal 50% of the time. It's Ovechkin's fault if Brooks Orpik plays 20 minutes per game. It's Ovechkin's fault if Burakovsky and Wilson take stupid offensive zone penalties when protecting a one goal lead late in the game.

I got it, it's all his fault.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

The Ovechkin criticism is reaching ridiculous levels. Next thing we'll hear is that it's Ovechkin's fault if Grubauer couldn't make a glove save in the series. It's also Ovechkin's fault if the PK has allowed a goal 50% of the time. It's Ovechkin's fault if Brooks Orpik plays 20 minutes per game. It's Ovechkin's fault if Burakovsky and Wilson take stupid offensive zone penalties when protecting a one goal lead late in the game.

I got it, it's all his fault.

Most reasonable fans, including the majority of we Crosby Lovers , agree with you.

 

[chethejet]

Ovi is one of the greatest shooters and offensive forces in Hockey history. But he is only that in a sense. It takes so many things coming together to win a cup. And you have to beat everyone. Caps in a salary cap league are subject to losing players and keeping the core and replacing players. Hard to do. Hawks are sliding and will not see a cup maybe in years. Some day the Pens will be in a rebuild mode. But the caps have to allow young players to develop and not go year to year exclusively.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Most reasonable fans, including the majority of we Crosby Lovers , agree with you.

It's cool, but you know what, I don't even care about Ovi winning the Cup anymore. It's not going to happen, at least not in Washington.

I just wish he got the respect that he deserves for all the good things he has done. Let's be honest now. Without Ovi, the Caps would be as relevant as the Florida Panthers (no offense to Cats fans).

 

[Hal 9000]

Ovechkin is similar to Vince Carter, Alan Iverson, Brett Hull, Eric Lindros, Terrell Owens etc etc. Great individual players who can't win...mainly because of attitude and polarization. Until Ovie becomes a supporting player like Hull did, he won't win in the playoffs. He's not a leader of men - like Crosby, Messier, Sakic or Yzerman, he's a sniper and needs a change in scenery. He be great in Boston or Nashville.
Ovechkin is more comparable to Kessel or Stamkos, than he is with Crosby.