I dont know if this is a bit or legit but Id wager Carlsson is easily a PPG+ center you can match up against anyone. Id take a big 2 way monster in the Barkov/Kopitar mold over a skilled point produced who for the sake of my point Ill generously say is in the Hughes mold
C Will Smith - San Jose Sharks , NHL(2023, 4th, SJS)
- Thread starter GermanSpitfire
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That was quite the quick change of heart. Good to see you’re back in reality and hold Carlsson in higher regard.
You think Smith is the center and Carlsson the winger?
rt
Clean Hits on Substack
I don’t know which position each will play in the NHL but Smith has played almost exclusively center over the last two seasons while Carlsson has played almost exclusively on the wing, right? I’ve on out ever seen Smith play center. And outside of the WC, it seems like Carlsson has been a winger during league play the vast majority of the time, hasn’t he?
Smith takes the draw then typically plays the winger role. Which is fine, that's the NTDP and they have their own way of doing things. So he's not really a center in the same context. And it's frankly hard to imagine an NHL coach on a winning team putting Smith at center. He's not alive until the puck is on his stick.
Carlsson was eased into the SHL on the wing, in the same way Elias Pettersson and every other forward was when they were 17 or 18 years old. The remarkable thing was when Carlsson was selected to play center on the Men's World Championship team, that is really rare.
rt
Clean Hits on Substack
Postulates
Registered User
- Jun 7, 2022
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he was reverted back to wing when the real play started in the elimination games
TheGreenTBer
JAMES DOES IT NEED A WASHER YES OR NO
- Apr 30, 2021
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It's too bad for shitposters everywhere that his stock has risen, because if he were drafted by Philadelphia I would have absolutely lost my shit.
Juxtaposer
Outro: Divina Comedia
The problem with saying the bolded is that there are plenty of natural NHL centers you could say that about. Leon Draisaitl, who is the most dominant playoff scorer in the world, comes to mind. Joe Thornton was the same way until he was in his 30’s. Evgeni Malkin is possibly the worst defensive 1st line center out there. There are plenty of guys who made it as NHL centers without being high motor defenders, because being a center is more than positioning in the defensive zone.
How much is Smith's success a result of his line mates? or is he driving their play? I honestly don't know much about him other than the 'best line outside the NHL' comments being thrown around. Are they just clicking as a unit or are each pretty good?
WeThreeKings
Demidov is a HAB
Some of those Carlsson takes are beyond brutal.
He's a superior prospect to Smith and it isn't particularly close.
He's a superior prospect to Smith and it isn't particularly close.
- Apr 27, 2005
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I would agree, Carlsson is very clearly ahead of Smith.
As someone who has several times noted some flaws in Carlssons game, so much this.
Carlsson would be #1 pick in some years, I'm sure. Everyone has flaws. But you take Carlsson ahead of Smith any day of the week, IMO. And Smith is pretty good.
DatDude44
Hmmmm?
- Feb 23, 2012
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Without Ryan Leonard, Smith's opportunities to create offense with the puck on his stick would be cut in half almost...yes i'm exaggerating a bit but that's how much dirty work leonard did shift in and shift out to win pucks and get the puck to his playmakers(smith and perreault) in my viewings.
OKR
Registered User
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He is clearly the better prospect in my mind, but majority of these Carlsson takes have been beyond brutal from both sides tbh.
It’s quite rare to see a prospect whose fans and haters both seem to lack all objectivity.
From what little I've seen and read about Smith this tends to be where the red flags show up and why people put Carlsson above Smith. He never goes to work in the dirty areas, he's not great down low and plays a terrible off puck game.
Sure he might be able to do it, but if he's not doing it against his peers(even if it's because of the system he's in) what makes people believe he can do it against grown professionals?
When you're picking someone to be the go to guy, they can't be one dimensional like that.
DatDude44
Hmmmm?
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Correct, he's a great talent, but needs alot of time to develop and round out his game. Also needs to be willing to do it. This is where knowing his character makes a massive difference for a team taking him with a top 10 pick or not and part of the draft process that we as fans don't have the resources to know.
In order of talent and impact, this is how i have it:
Bedard slightly ahead of Michkov
Fantilli
Carlsson / Smith (tied)
The gap between Fantilli and Carlsson/Smith is not huge IMO.
If Michkov drops to 5, the Habs grab him and thank their lucky stars.
Bedard slightly ahead of Michkov
Fantilli
Carlsson / Smith (tied)
The gap between Fantilli and Carlsson/Smith is not huge IMO.
If Michkov drops to 5, the Habs grab him and thank their lucky stars.
Rabid Ranger
2 is better than one
This is overblown. He plays on a stacked line on a stacked team and has carte blanche to do what he wants. He has shown a willingness to adapt as needed and will continue to do so in a year or so of college before he plays in the NHL. Also, let's watch the use of the word "character." He has no character concerns. You can like Carlsson or whoever more but there's a lot of digging deep here. What's next? Wide turns ala Jack Hughes?
Juxtaposer
Outro: Divina Comedia
The offensive parts? Smith strikes me as a pure center in the offensive (and neutral) zone. I suppose I don’t have any hard-hitting analysis to back that up, but everything in the offensive zone runs through Smith.
He doesn't look like a center in the neutral zone. Smith tends to take a pass when he's already in the neutral zone or at his blueline and then do a zone entry on the wing, kind of like Panarin or Kane. A center would be helping on the zone exit. Even lax defenders like Malkin and Draisaitl will still play that center role on zone exits where they come up the middle with speed.
In the offensive zone these days it's F1, F2, F3, so it doesn't really tell you anything. If the play runs through him inside the zone that's great and valuable but that's not a center or wing thing. Like someone forgot to tell Matthews and Marner they were doing it backwards.
You can't really compare shooting between prospects without including the fact that one of the prospects just doesn't like to shoot very much. Both Will and Leo are playmakers and always will be, but Will Smith has at least as good of a shot as Leo, and will actually use it.
I don't think the ''playing against men'' is a good counterargument in this case either. Most prospects look like trash in the SHL, they can barely keep up. Leo is the most comfortable forward that I've ever watched at that level. He gets loads of opportunities to shoot, and often prefers a forced pass to a clean look.
I prefer Carlsson to Smith, by the way, but I thought the shooting assessment was off.
I don't think the ''playing against men'' is a good counterargument in this case either. Most prospects look like trash in the SHL, they can barely keep up. Leo is the most comfortable forward that I've ever watched at that level. He gets loads of opportunities to shoot, and often prefers a forced pass to a clean look.
I prefer Carlsson to Smith, by the way, but I thought the shooting assessment was off.
Marc the Habs Fan
Moderator
In the end, if you are drafting Will Smith top 5, you have a top 5 pick in part because you have a team that is in dire need of a huge skill infusion. And Smith will bring that to your franchise.
Worrying about his 2-way game is fine and all but you are missing the point of what makes him a hell of a player.
Worrying about his 2-way game is fine and all but you are missing the point of what makes him a hell of a player.
