C Shane Wright (2022, 4th, SEA) Part 4

[Sidney the Kidney]

Why would you arbitrarily exclude a sample to make the total smaller?

It's a 33 goal 67 point pace, and he's done it without getting PP1 minutes for the majority of that span (because Florida has been loaded). Their 2nd PP barely gets any legitimate ice time with the man advantage.

So he's proving to be a 60-70 point 2 way center who can hit, fight, skate, and play in all situations. That's pretty much what the scouting reports were expecting (and we both know he was never a serious challenger to go 1st, he was talked about as a potential 1OA in the same way Cutter Gauthier was).

That's a great outcome for a 4th overall pick.

Bennett was never projected to be an elite offensive player. He was billed as more of a complete forward. He even had a solid 19 year old rookie season coming out of the OHL with 18 goals 37 points in his 78 games. He looked to be ready to take the next step.

Then Gulutzan asked him to center 2 of the worst 5v5 players around in Brouwer and Versteeg as a 20 year old. And when that (shockingly) didn't work, Bennett was completely written off and typecast as a 4th line winger. It's pretty clear his struggles in Calgary were because of Calgary, not Kingston.


You said "every single highly touted prospect who came through Kingston" stagnated, which is why I highlighted Robertson. Gratton and Chris Stewart were both pretty highly touted and had pretty good starts to their careers and also came out unscathed.

Seems like almost every top end player that's been drafted out of Kingston is huge...

Gratton 6'3
Kilger 6'4
A Stewart 6'3
C Stewart 6'2
Gudbranson 6'5
Bennett 6'0
Crouse 6'4
Robertson 6'3
Wright 6'1

I'm probably missing a few others. Teams need to stop drafting face punchers / power forwards out of of Kingston. I wonder how much that has to do with their lack of success, especially right off the bat, as big guys tend to take a bit longer.

Bennett has really been the only "great" skater of that group. Wright probably next best, which isn't great.

Like I've said a few times, I don't disagree that their track record is terrible, but 2 of the last 3 top guys have come out okay (and Crouse really never should have been drafted as high as he was, his offensive ceiling was very clearly limited).

I'm not going to continue this after this because honestly you just seem to be arguing for the sake of it at this point -- you even agreed that Kingston's development history is bad -- just so you can say "BUT IT'S NOT IMPOSSIBLE". The only thing I'll say is Gratton as an example of success is questionable given who he was supposed to be comparable to and what he became.

He was supposed to be the next Brendan Shanahan type. Powerforward who did it all - hit, fight, score 40+ goals, etc. Instead, Gratton had one solitary 30 goal season and then never came close to that again, and for the bulk of his career was mainly a defensively sound middle six center who scored 15-20 goals. Again, not an outright bust clearly since he played over 1000 NHL games. But he came nowhere near his pre-draft hype of being that perennial 30-40 goal physically dominant powerforward.

But this is a Shane Wright thread so at this point we're going in circles since you basically agreed with my general point about Kingston's development but for some reason wanted to double down on the "it's not impossible to develop in Kingston" thing.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

i dont think he actually did.

its actually not that uncommon in the NHL
ghost secondary assists, player never touches the puck,
or opponent touches the puck after, but gets secondary
assist nevertheless

They say that they (NHL) review every goal and play after each game..
i highly doubt that.

I have super slomo'd lots of goals in recent years
and seen many goals and assists gone for the wrong players,
ghost redirects, secondary assists, or redirects that have not been noticed

Actually they are just completely incompetent like every NHL department. Probably some 10 year old volunteers. I have had guys in my keeper league get points and the next day the point is gone. The other night Kakko tipped in a goal, celebrated 1st in line, and it took an hour for them to get the bloody stats right. With all the replays now it is highly unlikely a player would take credit for a goal he didn't score.

 

[ICanMotteBelieveIt]

Welcome to the NHL kiddo!

 

[gstommylee]

Wright did go to attempt to get a stick on the puck. He just happened to deflect it by some pure luck right to Tanev. So yes he gets the assist.

 

[Mr Buckles]

More minutes than usual against Colorado?

Still only has 1 shot on goal through 4 games

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

He played 8:42 tonight? He'll be up to 10 minutes per game by the end of the year!

 

[FDBluth]

Welcome to the NHL kiddo!

honestly looked like an amateur player on that play. learning experience for him for sure.

 

[Panthaz89]

I don't get the arguing about sending him down. If he isn't ready for the NHL go back to juniors crashing someone's confidence is immensely worse than a slight progression he wasn't some God in juniors. Sabres sent down Reinhart after 9 back in 2015 he Wright got picked 4th for a reason.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

Welcome to the NHL kiddo!

Another reason why Wright is upset that Montreal didn’t draft. No Xhekaj to protect him. I wonder if Barbashev will be that aggressive against a Montreal player? What do you think?

 

[Seb]

Another reason why Wright is upset that Montreal didn’t draft. No Xhekaj to protect him. I wonder if Barbashev will be that aggressive against a Montreal player? What do you think?

We're not Leafs fans, let's not make everything about us.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Under 6 minutes of ice time today versus Chicago. What are they even doing with him at this point? If they think he's so far away from being NHL ready that they can't even give him normal 4th line minutes (ie. 10-ish minutes per game) then send him down.

6 minutes or less of ice time is like what coaches give enforcers back in the day. It's not the type of ice time you play "regular" players.

 

[Colezuki]

Under 6 minutes of ice time today versus Chicago. What are they even doing with him at this point? If they think he's so far away from being NHL ready that they can't even give him normal 4th line minutes (ie. 10-ish minutes per game) then send him down.

6 minutes or less of ice time is like what coaches give enforcers back in the day. It's not the type of ice time you play "regular" players.

Watched the game, totally confused about usage

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Watched the game, totally confused about usage

He doesn't even seem to get mop up duty on the second PP unit. It's just weird at this point.

 

[Marc the Habs Fan]

I wonder how HF would have reacted to the Bruins' minimal usage of Thornton in the fall of 1997. That's probably the only time I can remember something like this happening with an 18 year old C.

Joe Thornton 1997-98 Game Log | Hockey-Reference.com

Gamelogs for Joe Thornton for 1997-98

www.hockey-reference.com

Took Joe 21 games to pickup a point...yikes!

My guess is Seattle is either buying time until the Canada WJC camp begins in December and he won't exceed 9 GP by then and they will assign him to whatever OHL contending team trades for him after the WJC... or they will send him to Kingston shortly.

 

[wetcoast]

What Shane Wright is, is a guy that should be playing pro hockey. Ideally, in the AHL from which he can be called up on a day’s notice to the NHL. If not in a top men’s league in Europe... I know he would need to go back to the OHL but IMO, it’s not an adapted option for him. He already has the high end skills developed. He needs to get used to playing vs men. He can only learn that in some pro league.

At this point any option, even the OHL is better than him getting 5:51 of ice time in his 4th NHL game out of a possible 7.

just horrible development FULL STOP.

 

[wetcoast]

I wonder how HF would have reacted to the Bruins' minimal usage of Thornton in the fall of 1997. That's probably the only time I can remember something like this happening with an 18 year old C.

Joe Thornton 1997-98 Game Log | Hockey-Reference.com

Gamelogs for Joe Thornton for 1997-98

www.hockey-reference.com

Took Joe 21 games to pickup a point...yikes!

My guess is Seattle is either buying time until the Canada WJC camp begins in December and he won't exceed 9 GP by then and they will assign him to whatever OHL contending team trades for him after the WJC... or they will send him to Kingston shortly.

Thornton was 2nd in OHL scoring the year before and Boston was a legitimate playoff team that year so learning winning habits also would work in Joe's usage that year but IMO a top prospect should be playing 20 minutes per night and learning how to dominate in almost all cases.

Wright should be part of the exception to that rule.

 

[SlafySZN]

Thornton was 2nd in OHL scoring the year before and Boston was a legitimate playoff team that year so learning winning habits also would work in Joe's usage that year but IMO a top prospect should be playing 20 minutes per night and learning how to dominate in almost all cases.

Wright should be part of the exception to that rule.

And in Wright’s case, it’s not like the Kraken are a contending team they should be able to play their young players minutes for them to learn in a year where they won’t make the playoffs, it’s the best time to do it.

If they don’t think he’s ready to take around 13-14 minutes in the NHL then OK you don’t put him in those situation but in that case you send him back to juniors where he could play.

 

[Kennerback]

I wonder how HF would have reacted to the Bruins' minimal usage of Thornton in the fall of 1997. That's probably the only time I can remember something like this happening with an 18 year old C.

Joe Thornton 1997-98 Game Log | Hockey-Reference.com

Gamelogs for Joe Thornton for 1997-98

www.hockey-reference.com

Took Joe 21 games to pickup a point...yikes!

My guess is Seattle is either buying time until the Canada WJC camp begins in December and he won't exceed 9 GP by then and they will assign him to whatever OHL contending team trades for him after the WJC... or they will send him to Kingston shortly.

The story was the Bruins were very open minded to give Thornton minutes. They just believed he looked terrible even during practices. Head office was freaking out. The media knew there was a problem.

What made it worse was that the Bruins had also drafted a few picks after Thornton at 8OA Sergei Samsonov and he looked awesome right off the bat.

And the fact they were giving that ice time to Samsonov defended their position that they were ready to give developing 18 year olds some leeway. For them, Thornton was hurting the team and was just too high risk during games.

 

[Dominance]

This is quite literally the best way to ruin a young player. Once again.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

I wonder how HF would have reacted to the Bruins' minimal usage of Thornton in the fall of 1997. That's probably the only time I can remember something like this happening with an 18 year old C.

Joe Thornton 1997-98 Game Log | Hockey-Reference.com

Gamelogs for Joe Thornton for 1997-98

www.hockey-reference.com

Took Joe 21 games to pickup a point...yikes!

My guess is Seattle is either buying time until the Canada WJC camp begins in December and he won't exceed 9 GP by then and they will assign him to whatever OHL contending team trades for him after the WJC... or they will send him to Kingston shortly.

Thornton had dominated juniors and was not eligible for the AHL. Wright did not dominate the OHL. Keeping him up to barely play him is idiotic.

 

[Deep Blue Metallic]

Thornton finished with 3G his rookie season iirc. Then again, is it meaningful to compare a 1st ballot HHoF lock and arguably best playmaking center of his generation to, well, any 2022/23 rookie?

Play him or send him to Kingston. Seattle is starting to look dysfunctional at this point.

 

[Mr Buckles]

Stats through his first 5 NHL games:

 

[Stephen]

I wonder how HF would have reacted to the Bruins' minimal usage of Thornton in the fall of 1997. That's probably the only time I can remember something like this happening with an 18 year old C.

Joe Thornton 1997-98 Game Log | Hockey-Reference.com

Gamelogs for Joe Thornton for 1997-98

www.hockey-reference.com

Took Joe 21 games to pickup a point...yikes!

My guess is Seattle is either buying time until the Canada WJC camp begins in December and he won't exceed 9 GP by then and they will assign him to whatever OHL contending team trades for him after the WJC... or they will send him to Kingston shortly.

Joe Thornton's rookie season vs the rest of his Hall of Fame career is almost like a once in a century outlier. How he was so bad after he was so hyped and how he caught up after is not really a developmental track you can apply to anybody else. More realistically, I'd think of 90s guys like a Manny Malhotra who were precocious enough at 18 to earn a spot, but to keep the spot they had to play a safe bottom 6 role which inhibited more offensive development.

Re: Wright. It looks like all the missed time during the pandemic has really impacted his development. At this point I would err on the side of more play time to just get the reps in. He doesn't seem like a more finished product than someone like Matty Beniers, who got the extra season in college so why force feed it?

 

[Kennerback]

Joe Thornton's rookie season vs the rest of his Hall of Fame career is almost like a once in a century outlier. How he was so bad after he was so hyped and how he caught up after is not really a developmental track you can apply to anybody else. More realistically, I'd think of 90s guys like a Manny Malhotra who were precocious enough at 18 to earn a spot, but to keep the spot they had to play a safe bottom 6 role which inhibited more offensive development.

Re: Wright. It looks like all the missed time during the pandemic has really impacted his development. At this point I would err on the side of more play time to just get the reps in. He doesn't seem like a more finished product than someone like Matty Beniers, who got the extra season in college so why force feed it?

Good point. And I can’t emphasize enough how much the Bruins coach, GM/president, owner were freaking out and didn’t know what was happening. And Samsonov is essential in that story. They believed maybe a couple of games more and he’ll adjust like Samsonov. And it just went on and on. Thornton couldn’t get out of that rut.

Boston wasn’t doing a prospect development strategy by giving Thornton little ice time. The few minutes we’re not planned, they just happened.

 

[Michoulicious]

Stats through his first 5 NHL games:
View attachment 598125

10 shifts per game, 1 shot (!) in 5 games. Ouch.