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Player Discussion Brendan Lemieux

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jas said:
Like a proud papa, you are. I was most impressed by his skating. There’s an opportunity for him here, and hopefully he takes it and flourishes.
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His shot looked good as well. If he could put up goal totals in the mid-high teens, maybe even break 20, while bringing the pain/energy... I like
 
NernieBichols said:
Actually I’ve been reading on and wanting pepe’s Son for awhile yes. Read years ago the kid was like a mirror image of his dad but faster and since Winnipeg became a possible destination for some of our player last years yeah the kid has been on my radar. Potential Marchand/Gallagher-lite. And obviously you didn’t watch the game bc he had the puck a lot and was playing net front on the 2nd PP unit. Ever occur to you the amateur hour comment was about Ottawa and what was going down? Dude your just sore bc one of the rangers brass actually mentioned you on a video and kinda took a shot at you. Your not getting your agenda past me, I’m a hawk
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Nice. I’d love to see that video. Is it on the team website?
 
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He has the potential to change the complexion of how the team competes. I felt he drove the LAB line. I've not seen Lias and Buch play with that level of spirit previously. It was contagious. Buch fighting for possession and moving his feet like never before. Lemieux also clears space for them.
 
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Steve Kournianos said:
He had the lowest upside of any of Winnipeg's top 10 or so prospects, so naturally, Gorton accepts him in the trade. What a shock.

Take away his draft position from four or five years ago, and he'd be just another grinder. I keep track of all rookie iCF/iSCF/iHDSCF and Lemieux ranked near the bottom of the 140+ rookies for three months until Appleton showed up. Now he's somewhere in the 100s.

He's a decent player at best. Definitely serviceable. But what I want to knows is, what were Rangers pro scouts seeing? His two-week hot streak? In all seriousness, I'd love to know who within the organization championed the requirement to add Lemieux over a draft pick -- any draft pick, once Chevy balked at the trading the top prospects within his organization

I watch a lot of the Jets because I love Dennis Beyak, and never once did I comes away impressed with Lemieux outside of him "jam" while on a contender's fourth line.

I have as much faith in Gorton in trades as I have with Clark and the draft. He either loses them or gets the expected return. I get that he's still young in GM years and earned his way up, but I fully believe that the Sather-Gorton-Clark troika will never get this team past mediocrity unless a HOF goalie in his prime is backstopping them.
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I totally get this take here so i don't mean to be argumentative in countering here, because realistically there's a probability you're right and this kid ends up becoming nothing more than a nhl/ahl tweener.
however, while fully acknowledging this could be a fail, i like what we targeted here. to me this is more about what we're adding to our locker room. he's the kind of piece that could be really influential on our young core and in the same age bracket. i'm envisioning a guy like shaw in chicago here...sure offensively he's almost certainly not going to become a gamebreaker..but if he can become that locker room glue/personality that guys rally around w/ his effort on the ice and presence in the room - that's invaluable. while that's getting a bit optimistic, i'd say my larger point is i respect the org acknowledging a shortage of this type in the pipeline and looking to address it. the only point i do feel like should be added to your evaluation is that the jets are absolutely loaded and he was relegated to an extremely minor role there, so performance there in terms of output should be taken into account.

having said that, it sounds like you've seen a lot more of him than and i want to be clear this is certainly not meant to attack your evaluation or opinion - the fact that you seem knowledgeable on the subject felt like a good person to offer a counter from a probably overly optimistic view.

as for gorton, i'm a huge fan. i just really like the calm confidence he carries and how available he makes himself to answer tough questions - he always comes across as very willing and able to acknowledge potential criticism of decisions with a humility that's often void in pro sports management. that said, from a draft perspective under him/sather/gordie while our first and late round picks have performed admirably over the last decade or so, the middle rounds have been an absolute disaster. i'm not keyed in to any extent to know where things are going sideways there, but over the next couple years it's essential we get some big hits in rounds 2-4 if this plan is going to really pan out.
 
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Glen Sathers Cigar said:
I've only ever seen people refer to DeAngelo as Torey Krug-lite.

Pionk is looking more like not a NHL caliber player. I struggle to understand why the coaching staff gives him so much ice time, he's looked worse the longer he's been in the NHL.

What the hell is the DeAngeNO supposed to be? What is that? Is that a nickname? What does it mean? What's the joke there, aside from just inserting the word no into his name?
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Uhhh...what? Tony D has a superior skillset to krug and they really don't play alike at all. TD is far more deliberate in how he generates up ice offense and far more patient/creative in the o zone. he's much more comparable to a letang in how he handles the puck...fortunately for us he doesn't have the same crybaby attitude or deploy his defensive strategy of trying to break guys backs with a crosschecks - because while the pens are allowed to do it, we certainly would not be.

and while i'd agree pionk hasn't played himself into the defenseman quinn deploys him as, he's a much better comparable to krug. i'd also opine while he isn't a top 2 guy, he's def an nhl dman. him n krug both have a bit of waterbug to them coming up ice and are gamers defending rushes with phenominal hand-eye. both can also be abused at times in the d zone down low - the only major difference right now there is krug has at least a respectable bomb from the point. neither have the instincts of TD in the o zone though. TD still has some bust risk for sure, but quinn seems to have really done wonders for him this year...
 
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Bob Richards said:
I want it to be known that I have had TWO (2) different twitter questions make it to air. One was answered by Mike Keenan and the other Stu Bickel.
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I was thrilled Gordie Clarke pronounced my French last name perfectly when I sent in a question once to Jim Cerny's gig on FB.

I'm mean I'm not totally surprised because Hockey is such a worldly sport, but nobody ever gets it. Ever.
 
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NernieBichols said:
I agree to a degree. Muzzin was pedigree and important playoff minutes accumulated. Montour the age and years of control. Still think if the deals were made in years past, they would have gone for more. But I wouldn’t be surprised if the shrinking we’re seeing in the returns in the trade markets are here for good. The jury is out, it’s becoming more and more like football, 1st and 2nd rounders need to become steady solid Pros. The league is going younger, the kids all trained and ready to play the style and pace the game is trending. Rental prices and guys who have 1 or 2 years remaining are gonna keep going down, especially when a lot of these good players have some sort of trade protection, building in a ceiling the buyers get to play off from the drop. I mean I had feeling Kreider’s 11team no trade clause was gonna kill his value bc 11 teams is pretty much nixing out all the bad teams and teams that can’t recruit players that would pay a premium for him. So returns are gonna plummet for guys nearing UFA and values skyrocketing on 1st and 2nds going forward
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Agreed, I too think we are seeing somewhat of a shift in value being placed on 1st round picks. Much of it as you are saying is based on the league just having more youth come up and that youth being at least somewhat cost controlled.

Mostly if I were the guy selling at a deadline, I'm expecting only a couple of 1sts to move for pure rentals, those rentals are going to be the players viewed as near or the best on the market for their position.

If I really want a 1st beyond that, I'd have to move someone good who at least has a year of term left, or a rental who would extend wherever he is being traded to, or take back some major cap hit, or be willing to add something else to that deal.

Which is pretty much what we have seen happen.

(Montour is a little different, he has a year left and will still be a RFA at that contracts end. He's 24. That should also return some sort of premium asset. In fact I kind of feel as if Buffalo underpaid and made a pretty darn nice trade there especially given he is a RD.)

I think Gorton probably figured all that out, which kind of begs to question, how does he maybe squeeze more out of the market. I was thinking he'd be able to take back cap dumps in the process, yet none of those really moved at the deadline either. Which I find as odd, but they did not.

Beyond cap dumps, that leads to conditional stuff being negotiated.

Which in my opinion is multifaceted, if the conditionals hit, hooray.

Yet even if not, until those conditions are known that leaves an avenue open for further communication with that team. I'd speculate that he and Tampa talked about the conditional 2nd/1st but nothing materialized. Now he can talk with Dallas should they want to extend Zucc and want to work something out beyond/besides that conditional 3rd/1st. Having those teams have some vested interest still in those conditions goes beyond just cold calling them. It helps keep him in the conversation(s) and maybe even more in the know about those teams, and maybe even other teams "wants and do not wants" just through those conversations.


To get back to Lemieux, not going to pretend I knew/know much about him, yet all the same, them gambling on someone who could maybe play the role of top 9 agitator seems like a fine gamble to me since without, the Rangers are going to go out every off-season and try to overpay for those players and the ones they find are going to end up on the 4th line or bottom pair when really they should be depth.

Why not see if they can get a young one who can grow with the team and maybe have a longer term effect. In the first game it seemed to have awakened Buch who not only played a tougher game and fought, but also had 5 shots on goal (only second time all season). If they can get him going by using Lemieux this trade means a ton more than it did before. A more engaged game by game Buch is worth way more than a slightly better return on a rental should it play out that way.

(Disclaimer: I know I've made light of intangible effects in the past, and that was almost always related to the player's talent level not matching up to more than what should be a depth level player, if this kid can be more than that, I see that as being a big difference.)
 
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Something to keep in mind, teams are look at these drafts from the perspective of preparing for not only a potential work stoppage, but also an inevitable expansion draft.

Young, controlled talent is a valuable commodity; especially higher-end young talent.

#Food4Thought
 
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Steve Kournianos said:
Nice. I’d love to see that video. Is it on the team website?
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Haha first off I was screwing with you. I think your somehow related to my boneheaded fam from another mam.
But you did come up somewhere I’m not sure if it was a video or article with either Clark/Gorts or it was maybe carp/Maloney. I really don’t remember the details but
Somebody mentioned your name in relation to a scouting report or something and whoever it was shot back ‘i kinda remember that guy from years back and something getting at that your track record wasn’t too great’
At least your on the radar ;)
 
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NernieBichols said:
Haha first off I was screwing with you. I think somehow related to my boneheaded fam from another mam.
But you did come up somewhere I’m not sure if it was a video or article with either Clark/Gorts or it was maybe carp/Maloney. I really don’t remember the details but
Somebody mentioned your name in relation to a scouting report or something and whoever it was shot back ‘i kinda remember that guy from years back and something getting at that your track record wasn’t too great’
At least your on the radar ;)
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Nobody has a great track record. That’s why the 20 best players from every draft weren’t ranked 1-20 in their draft. Every year is win some, lose some, rinse, repeat.

It’s literally a hobby. That’s my agenda — keep myself entertained. Don’t mind the conspiracy theorists and cupcakes because they keep just as entertaining as the prospects. I talk shit about the hockey media and players just like everyone else, so no issue if they return the favor.
 
Steve Kournianos said:
Nobody has a great track record. That’s why the 20 best players from every draft weren’t ranked 1-20 in their draft. Every year is win some, lose some, rinse, repeat.

It’s literally a hobby. That’s my agenda — keep myself entertained. Don’t mind the conspiracy theorists and cupcakes because they keep just as entertaining as the prospects. I talk **** about the hockey media and players just like everyone else, so no issue if they return the favor.
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Oh believe me I get it. I was just saying I thought maybe you were being a sourpuss bc you saw or heard what I did and was greasing them back. It doesn’t take much to create a hive mind narrative, all we need is Gorts-Amateur Hour GM becoming a norm here. I mean I feel like they’re doing everything in the manner I would in most respects and I think you’d agree they had what so far looks like a great draft last year, seem like they are gonna have a simile arensal of picks this year. I just don’t know what there is really to knock. Now if you had some contacts in the league who said I know my team would have given up more if pressed, then I say why didn’t that team offer more, otherwise how could anyone know if Gorts could have gotten a better deal?
 
To me, I could care less about all the prospect’s guys rankings and ratings. What id take is the actual written scouting reports of all these blogger/draft guys and correlate and see how each player sounds to me. Again I could care less about when these guys peg them in orders. That’s a fool’s game
 
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