Player Discussion Brendan Lemieux

[Ghost of jas]

A player that many people in the league consider a high end 3C, (a rental at that) brings back a 1st and a young 3rd liner, and people are claiming that the GM should have gotten more. Who says you can’t rebuild in NY?

 

[FireGerardGallant]

Ik this is the Lemieux thread and not the hayes trade thread but the only rentals that brought back guaranteed firsts were Hayes and Duchene. At the end of the day, that's all that matters I'd rather us draft and develop our own guys than taking a chance on another team's prospect pool where we are at an information disadvantage.
As for Lemieux, he was great last night. This is tuffness and grit done right, he's actually a component player unlike a mcleod where that is his only attribute

 

[JohnC]

I watched Lemieux extensively as well this season cause I'm a big Winnipeg Jets fan and like I said earlier in this thread there were games where he was the best forward Some Nights.

Stevie k I really like talking prospects with you, usually a reasonable guy but today you're having an off-day I think, it's time to pull a Quinn and make you ride the pine

Maybe if you would have put it in the context of Gorton not being very creative then I'd say you'd maybe have a legitimate gripe, but I don't know where you were but Lemieux's name came up plenty of times around here, for months. I was hoping for Lemieux and Virtanen, Lemieux and the pick will do just fine.

The first two years of the rebuild I'm okay with getting back some conservative returns because we're building a base. After the first two years you should start to get a little more creative, I think the league will be a little more cooperative, should be a lot of player movement especially with expansion on the horizon.


And I echo the sentiments that we had to trade Kevin Hayes, his price tag was too high for a guy who I feel is going to have a sharp curve down as he starts to age.

People want to blow their load early on in the rebuild to try to speed it up.

As enticing as it would be to be competitive again and soon, it’s how you end up like the Buffalo Sabres except without a Jack Eichel or a Rasmus Dahlin.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

A player that many people in the league consider a high end 3C, (a rental at that) brings back a 1st and a young 3rd liner, and people are claiming that the GM should have gotten more. Who says you can’t rebuild in NY?

But to be fair, those people were wrong. He's at worst a 2nd line center.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

Now, I say one thing; in fairness, Lemieux was a name that's popped up on here for a while.

If so, why?

I don't see it outside the energy/jam he brings. He's not responsible defensively, has a low hockey IQ and doesn't drive possession. The concern that I have is the hitting/scrum nonsense will be enough for the coach (and then the fans) to justify playing him, and it's only a matter of time when the fans turn on him and blame the coach for playing him over a more-talented prospect.

Again, it appears as if this is the type of player Gorton and his pro scouts actually wanted, not the player Winnipeg drew a line under. That's why the multiple non-Rangers hockey types I've spoken to since Monday think Gorton could have done better.

 

[FireGerardGallant]

If so, why?

I don't see it outside the energy/jam he brings. He's not responsible defensively, has a low hockey IQ and doesn't drive possession. The concern that I have is the hitting/scrum nonsense will be enough for the coach (and then the fans) to justify playing him, and it's only a matter of time when the fans turn on him and blame the coach for playing him over a more-talented prospect.

Again, it appears as if this is the type of player Gorton and his pro scouts actually wanted, not the player Winnipeg drew a line under. That's why the multiple non-Rangers hockey types I've spoken to since Monday think Gorton could have done better.

What other rental besides Duchene got more?

 

[kovazub94]

It should be comforting to know that NHL-employed scouts "get it wrong" 80-90% of the time anyway. Accurately projecting 17 and 18 year olds into professional adult athletes may be the hardest thing to do in all of pro sports, but never gets mentioned as such.

Comforting - yes, but for some reason some people take it an an entitlement to crap on the hard work that professional scouts do thinking that they could undoubtedly do it better, and what’s worse - that they are ALWAYS right while front offices are always wrong.

 

[ThirdEye]

If so, why?

I don't see it outside the energy/jam he brings. He's not responsible defensively, has a low hockey IQ and doesn't drive possession. The concern that I have is the hitting/scrum nonsense will be enough for the coach (and then the fans) to justify playing him, and it's only a matter of time when the fans turn on him and blame the coach for playing him over a more-talented prospect.

Again, it appears as if this is the type of player Gorton and his pro scouts actually wanted, not the player Winnipeg drew a line under. That's why the multiple non-Rangers hockey types I've spoken to since Monday think Gorton could have done better.

Sometimes a change of environment is all that's needed

I think you're also exaggerating his flaws and downplaying his positive attributes... players with low hockey IQ's that don't do anything besides add "jam" don't score 43 points in 51 games in the AHL at 21 years of age... i'm sorry, it just doesn't happen.

The defensive side can be worked on and isn't a huge worry for me

 

[Edge]

If so, why?

I don't see it outside the energy/jam he brings. He's not responsible defensively, has a low hockey IQ and doesn't drive possession. The concern that I have is the hitting/scrum nonsense will be enough for the coach (and then the fans) to justify playing him, and it's only a matter of time when the fans turn on him and blame the coach for playing him over a more-talented prospect.

Again, it appears as if this is the type of player Gorton and his pro scouts actually wanted, not the player Winnipeg drew a line under. That's why the multiple non-Rangers hockey types I've spoken to since Monday think Gorton could have done better.

I think it depends on what you want and are looking for.

As far as third line players go, his type is not really a common player in today's NHL. If he can be a **** disturber who pops in some points, that's a pretty coveted player in 2019.

If one is looking at him as a core, top six forward, eh. We're probably getting closer to wishful thinking territory.

But there's a reason why teams were checking-in with the Rangers afterwards. And it's not because they all felt the need to ask about a player with a low IQ who brings little to the table.

 

[Ghost of jas]

But to be fair, those people were wrong. He's at worst a 2nd line center.

They may be wrong, but if the perception is that he’s a high end 3C, that has an affect on his perceived value.

 

[Edge]

But to be fair, those people were wrong. He's at worst a 2nd line center.

I dunno, I have to tell you that the perception outside of Rangers land had a lot of teams liking Hayes more as a third line center than a second line center.

 

[duhmetreE]

Hayes produces as a top6 center at even strength. He has had no help as well.

 

[Edge]

Hayes produces as a top6 center at even strength. He has had no help as well.

And the counter that some would make is that's its not uncommon for guys to score more in higher roles on weaker teams, but be better suited to other roles on better teams.

Kind of the big fish in a small pond or smaller fisher in a big pond debate.

Not saying it's entirely fair or accurate, but the greater interest was in Hayes as a third liner.

 

[Lion Hound]

If so, why?

I don't see it outside the energy/jam he brings. He's not responsible defensively, has a low hockey IQ and doesn't drive possession. The concern that I have is the hitting/scrum nonsense will be enough for the coach (and then the fans) to justify playing him, and it's only a matter of time when the fans turn on him and blame the coach for playing him over a more-talented prospect.

Again, it appears as if this is the type of player Gorton and his pro scouts actually wanted, not the player Winnipeg drew a line under. That's why the multiple non-Rangers hockey types I've spoken to since Monday think Gorton could have done better.

Very valid points. I have no idea where his game will translate at the NHL level. I think he has the wheels for it...But too small a sample size in terms of the Hockey IQ, etc. Ill take your word for it though.

I thought I saw an article that contradicts that a bit. Saying the Rangers wanted other assets but couldnt get their price? Maybe Brooks?

The funny thing is the Garden is going to love the kid for hitting the scrums in the manner in which he does. They always do...Providing one thing. Consistency in the extra effort. To me this is what separates the Sean Avery's, and Matthew Barnaby's of the game with the Daniel Carcilio's and the Michael Haley's. Avery and Barnaby reached Cult followings here in NY. I guess at the end of the day, a lot of this deal itself will fall on the draft pick to follow.

 

[Edge]

Very valid points. I have no idea where his game will translate at the NHL level. I think he has the wheels for it...But too small a sample size in terms of the Hockey IQ, etc. Ill take your word for it though.

I thought I saw an article that contradicts that a bit. Saying the Rangers wanted other assets but couldnt get their price? Maybe Brooks?

The funny thing is the Garden is going to love the kid for hitting the scrums in the manner in which he does. They always do...Providing one thing. Consistency in the extra effort. To me this is what separates the Sean Avery's, and Matthew Barnaby's of the game with the Daniel Carcilio's and the Michael Haley's. Avery and Barnaby reached Cult followings here in NY. I guess at the end of the day, a lot of this deal itself will fall on the draft pick to follow.

Avery and Barnaby were also pretty decent players as well.

Everyone remembers the antics, but Barnaby could pop in his 15 goals and 30 points a season. If Avery could've kept his head together, he could've/should've been a consistent 40-50 point player.

 

[Inferno]

Like I said, I watched Lemieux extensively before the trade. He was a nondescript prospect. Am I not allowed to voice my legitimate concerns — concerns echoed by the analytics community?

Did anyone on this forum either know Lemieux existed, considered him a legit prospect or coveted him during trade rumor talks? Nope. But magically, one game is all it takes for everyone to anoint him the next Avery.

You can’t deliver a hit if you have possession of the puck. No surprise Lemieux had seven hits.

Incredibly arrogant to think you're the only person who knew who lemieux was.

I did, and I'm sure at least half this board did as well.

 

[Lion Hound]

Avery and Barnaby were also pretty decent players as well.

Everyone remembers the antics, but Barnaby could pop in his 15 goals and 30 points a season. If Avery could've kept his head together, he could've/should've been a consistent 40-50 point player.

They were. Both found regular shifts for a while, and both were completely unpredictable. Seems like Lemieux is similar to both. Brendan compares his game to his dad, but personally i think either Barnaby or Avery are far better comparisions.

 

[Blue Blooded]

Avery and Barnaby were also pretty decent players as well.

Everyone remembers the antics, but Barnaby could pop in his 15 goals and 30 points a season. If Avery could've kept his head together, he could've/should've been a consistent 40-50 point player.

Just thinking of the Doig fight still cracks me up.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

If its not arrogant, it's not Kournianos

Very valid points. I have no idea where his game will translate at the NHL level. I think he has the wheels for it...But too small a sample size in terms of the Hockey IQ, etc. Ill take your word for it though.

I thought I saw an article that contradicts that a bit. Saying the Rangers wanted other assets but couldnt get their price? Maybe Brooks?

The funny thing is the Garden is going to love the kid for hitting the scrums in the manner in which he does. They always do...Providing one thing. Consistency in the extra effort. To me this is what separates the Sean Avery's, and Matthew Barnaby's of the game with the Daniel Carcilio's and the Michael Haley's. Avery and Barnaby reached Cult followings here in NY. I guess at the end of the day, a lot of this deal itself will fall on the draft pick to follow.

You really shouldn't.

 

[Lion Hound]

If its not arrogant, it's not Kournianos



You really shouldn't.

Guess we'll see. I watch alot of hockey, but self-admittingly i didn't see any of the 117 Manitoba Moose games he played. Only 1 game in WPG and one for NYR. Too small a sample size for me.

 

[E-Train]

They were. Both found regular shifts for a while, and both were completely unpredictable. Seems like Lemieux is similar to both. Brendan compares his game to his dad, but personally i think either Barnaby or Avery are far better comparisions.

I hope he can get close to Avery's ability. Going beyond the antics. Avery had good skill. Lemieux is better with the fists than all of them.

 

[Lion Hound]

I hope he can get close to Avery's ability. Going beyond the antics. Avery had good skill. Lemieux is better with the fists than all of them.

Barnaby was the worst scrapper in the league for a long time but eventually learned a way to hang in there. Shed the jersey like his buddy Rob Ray. He was tough but wasent a good fighter.
Avery was pretty tough. Good fighter, but he was a bit of a spot picker.

Lemieux as a fighter is solid. No question. Looks like he has been able to overpower some of the opposition, but has had issues with Heavyweights (See McIlrath fight). If he learns how to switch hands he will give people a lot of trouble. As a fighter Lemieux reminds me of Alan May, who is long retired. May used to grab on over the shoulder, and come over hand with the rights. Used leverage, to his advantage. Also stayed tight, and fought in close. Need alot of core strenght to fight this way. Lemieux in the small sample size is doing much of the same. He also has a decent chin. He's been tagged a few times and keeps coming.

Alan May vs Odgers


Lemieux vs Gemel


Funny, another reason NOT to compare him to his dad. His dad couldn't fight his way out of a paper bag!

 

[will1066]

I dunno, I have to tell you that the perception outside of Rangers land had a lot of teams liking Hayes more as a third line center than a second line center.

That's because most teams are deeper.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

How tf are there 13 pages on this guy already

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

How tf are there 13 pages on this guy already

We love our tough guys.