Player Discussion Brendan Lemieux

[AlternateSideParking]

One

I guess we aren't allowed to like a player without thinking our GM is the second coming.

Where did I say you shouldn’t like him? He’s Rangers property now. Root away.

My contention is most other GM’s know they can get what they want from Gorton without putting a significant dent in their prospect pool. Judging by the reactions the last two deadlines, clearly I’m not the only one who thinks that.

 

[Sarge13]

I will say, even 20 years later, that Lundmark is unequivocally my biggest miss and disappointment.

I don't even know if there's a close second.

Everyone got lundmark wrong though, you were definitely not alone in that boat.

Kenndal Mccardle was also a misstep, but not a terribly bad one.

At least you didn't think Jared Staal was a late first-rounder

 

[Edge]

In my world

I thought Hayes would go to Calgary for their 1st and one of their 3 D prospects, plus maybe get something conditional if he extended there.

I am assuming Calgary denied their D prospect, and none of their other prospects were worth it.

Jets are not likely to extend Hayes, they have other stuff going on, so the Rangers not getting any conditional based on that makes sense.

If anything I think the conditional 4th thing is kind of odd, yet I'm guessing if the Jets insisted on that 1st being top 3 protected, why not turn the screws a little.

I think there was also this weird situation where the two teams that liked Hayes the most, and whom the Rangers were most inclined to deal with, were Canadian teams where Hayes wasn't a lock to sign an extension.

So it was hard to get a deal that exceeded expectations for Hayes, because those deals were only going to be on the table if Hayes were signed long term.

But while Kevin Hayes can often come off as a goofy, almost aloof kind of guy, his team is very business savvy.

This is a kid who was drafted in the first round, went to a good college program, came out an UFA and spurned the offers of an original six team that was still close to their competitive peak, signed with another original six team, and is now going to be an UFA for a second time at just 27 years of age.

He's had relative control of his destiny for more than 9 years now. And in both cases, he magically grew by leaps and bounds just before it was time to negotiate (both in college and in the NHL).

I will echo comments made by some closer to the situation that there's a little bit of doubt that the timing is all a coincidence or a masterful understanding of Hayes' developmental timing (and one of the reasons there is a hesitation to go lone and high on a contract).

 

[SA16]

One

Where did I say you shouldn’t like him? He’s Rangers property now. Root away.

My contention is most other GM’s know they can get what they want from Gorton without putting a significant dent in their prospect pool. Judging by the reactions the last two deadlines, clearly I’m not the only one who thinks that.

And yet...Gorton got more for Zuccarello than any other non-Stone wing traded and was one of two GM's who managed to return a 1st round pick (while also getting multiple unlikely but possible conditional firsts).

 

[Kaapo Cabana]

One

Where did I say you shouldn’t like him? He’s Rangers property now. Root away.

My contention is most other GM’s know they can get what they want from Gorton without putting a significant dent in their prospect pool. Judging by the reactions the last two deadlines, clearly I’m not the only one who thinks that.

You didn't say that.

You implied that anyone who likes the player automatically approves of everything Gorton does. This is the Lemeiux player discussion thread. not the Hayes-Lemeiux trade thread. People ITT are praising Lemeiux, and you come in with a sarcastic remark about how everyone here praising Lemeiux thinks Gorton is Bill Torrey.

 

[Bacon Artemi Bravo]

Huge fan of Lemeuix and if he can bang in 15g/15a he’s going to be in this league for a long time. Seeing how hard he goes to the net I am sure he is going to get some of those grimey garbage goals. Works for me.

 

[Off Sides]

Even once the prospects are on the cusp, years after they've been drafted, it's still dicey to make any type of prognostication. Doing so before their drafted, I'm not sure I will ever the chops to go beyond comparing what most main stream rankings and YouTube are saying/showing.

I often talk up the on the cusp of the NHL, quad A borderline guys, mostly because as we have recently seen with DeAngelo, if it works out it's way better than the Rangers going out and filling that roster spot with some past their prime reclamation project who ends up waived after 20-30-40 games. Rather see them just give the borderline on the cusp younger players those same 20-30-40 games.

Usually the talking up of even those draft plus X years players is in hindsight looks bad. Yet the counter argument that it never works or the Rangers would have been better off with some vet reclamation project is poor too.

Something like, instead of trying Pionk the Rangers should have gone out and signed Kevin Bieksa, so let's all make fun of Pionk and correlate that to Etem, Carey, Clendening whoever else they tried who did not work out.

Anyway that was sort of off topic, Lemieux showed well last game, if he keeps it up, and it turns out he ends up good enough to be in the Rangers top 9, he was a good pick-up.

 

[Machinehead]

I will say, even 20 years later, that Lundmark is unequivocally my biggest miss and disappointment.

I don't even know if there's a close second.

Sangunetti for me.

I never lament missing out on Giroux because I would have done the same exact thing.

 

[Crease]

Josef Balej for me. Cupboard was so bare I latched onto that one highlight of him stickhandling off his skate in Hamilton. I was a dumb kid.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

You’re unloading on Gorton for not getting Roslovic or Vesalainen, yet Chevy wouldn’t even give that up for Mark Stone. He knew they wouldn’t be able to keep either of them past this year, so he paid strictly rental value here. A 1st and a B prospect is about as good as you can expect for a UFA rental. I wanted Roslovic too, but let’s be a little realistic here.

How about Gustafsson? Spacek? Virtanen? People talk about an “added dimension”, so why not add a playmaking winger like Petan, a skilled forward who was blocked in the top nine because of Winnipeg’s depth? Plenty of room for him to grow with the Rangers.

Hayes trade was made at the very beginning of the deadline. Wonder if Winnipeg’s package increases if Gorton makes the move after seeing what Vegas and Nashville did. I got a DM from an NHL agent right when the trade was made and all it said was “amateur hour again” and I didn’t even ask.

 

[Crease]

Hayes trade was made at the very beginning of the deadline. Wonder if Winnipeg’s package increases if Gorton makes the move after seeing what Vegas and Nashville did. I got a DM from an NHL agent right when the trade was made and all it said was “amateur hour again” and I didn’t even ask.

I believe you, and would love to know what the agent knew.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Low-key confession: Lemieux > Hayes.

Trade is a huge bang. Really nicely done.

I’d rather have him than Hayes too lol Hayes is a lazy player who plays like he’s skating in quicksand and has no pulse or sense of urgency, we could be down 1 goal in the final 10 seconds of the game and he’d just slowly skate around trying to dangle and pass up any opportunity to shoot

 

[Off Sides]

One

Where did I say you shouldn’t like him? He’s Rangers property now. Root away.

My contention is most other GM’s know they can get what they want from Gorton without putting a significant dent in their prospect pool. Judging by the reactions the last two deadlines, clearly I’m not the only one who thinks that.

Without comparing the player(s) the Rangers sold, and comparing that to other deals where those teams gave up any of their best prospects, I'm not sure I understand that sentiment.

Perhaps the reactions should be more based on what the Rangers bought and the prices they paid when they were buying?

Rangers sold off many 1st, some 2nds, Duclair, is that all that different than what the Rangers are getting back now that they are selling instead of buying?

 

[True Blue]

For me, if Lemieux can pop in 15 goals, 30 points, piss other teams off to kingdom come, and avoid hurting his team, I'll take that every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

All day, every day. And again, I believe that this is baseline. I think the potential is there for 20+ goals.

My belief that his upside is a modern day Sergio Mommeso/Marty LaPointe. Not just an agitator, but a thick bodied belligerent force in your middle 2 lines.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

You didn't say that.

You implied that anyone who likes the player automatically approves of everything Gorton does. This is the Lemeiux player discussion thread. not the Hayes-Lemeiux trade thread. People ITT are praising Lemeiux, and you come in with a sarcastic remark about how everyone here praising Lemeiux thinks Gorton is Bill Torrey.

Like I said, I watched Lemieux extensively before the trade. He was a nondescript prospect. Am I not allowed to voice my legitimate concerns — concerns echoed by the analytics community?

Did anyone on this forum either know Lemieux existed, considered him a legit prospect or coveted him during trade rumor talks? Nope. But magically, one game is all it takes for everyone to anoint him the next Avery.

You can’t deliver a hit if you have possession of the puck. No surprise Lemieux had seven hits.

 

[True Blue]

I will say, even 20 years later, that Lundmark is unequivocally my biggest miss and disappointment.

I don't even know if there's a close second.

You are not the only one disappointed. As I recall the comparisons were to a Roenick.

I recall joining you in howling about Jessiman. Like you, I had my heart set on Getzlaf, who if I recall properly was compared to a young Bobby Holik.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Lemieux also had a corsi rel of nearly 10%.

Next.

 

[Kaapo Cabana]

Like I said, I watched Lemieux extensively before the trade. He was a nondescript prospect. Am I not allowed to voice my legitimate concerns — concerns echoed by the analytics community?

Did anyone on this forum either know Lemieux existed, considered him a legit prospect or coveted him during trade rumor talks? Nope. But magically, one game is all it takes for everyone to anoint him the next Avery.

You can’t deliver a hit if you have possession of the puck. No surprise Lemieux had seven hits.

Great. Then give your opinion on Lemeiux.

don't make a smart ass remark about shit that nobody else is talking about

 

[EpicDing]

Like I said, I watched Lemieux extensively before the trade. He was a nondescript prospect. Am I not allowed to voice my legitimate concerns — concerns echoed by the analytics community?

Did anyone on this forum either know Lemieux existed, considered him a legit prospect or coveted him during trade rumor talks? Nope. But magically, one game is all it takes for everyone to anoint him the next Avery.

You can’t deliver a hit if you have possession of the puck. No surprise Lemieux had seven hits.

I actually did say I would be good with Lemieux coming back for Hayes, as long as a 1st was attached. You know, the rumored 1st+B prospect that all the insiders were saying the return would be.

What exactly were you expecting?

 

[AlternateSideParking]

For the record, I’m pissed at this team winning. Very angry, actually. So take my complaints with a grain of salt. Getting a kid like Lemieux makes them more competitive this year and next, and I simply don’t want that.

Not about Lemieux as much as my skepticism for the handling of a rebuild I’ve been waiting for for 35+ years.

 

[SA16]

Nic Petan is nothing. He's a small forward whose game doesn't translate to the NHL. He's had ice time in past years on the top line and has never produced. Nobody wanted him. There is a reason the player they got in return for him was a 27 year old 4C upcoming UFA with 1 goal in 61 games.

 

[Edge]

Sangunetti for me.

I never lament missing out on Giroux because I would have done the same exact thing.

And it's funny, I was never that impressed with Sanguinetti.

I freely admit that I wouldn't have taken Giroux in that spot though. I think I was leaning toward Foligno or Berglund.

 

[Edge]

All day, every day. And again, I believe that this is baseline. I think the potential is there for 20+ goals.

My belief that his upside is a modern day Sergio Mommeso/Marty LaPointe. Not just an agitator, but a thick bodied belligerent force in your middle 2 lines.

You know it's funny, I said 15 and then realized that for his career he already averages out to about 14 over an 82 game schedule, and this year he'd pop approximately 16 over a full season.

 

[Ola]

How about Gustafsson? Spacek? Virtanen? People talk about an “added dimension”, so why not add a playmaking winger like Petan, a skilled forward who was blocked in the top nine because of Winnipeg’s depth? Plenty of room for him to grow with the Rangers.

Hayes trade was made at the very beginning of the deadline. Wonder if Winnipeg’s package increases if Gorton makes the move after seeing what Vegas and Nashville did. I got a DM from an NHL agent right when the trade was made and all it said was “amateur hour again” and I didn’t even ask.

Thanks for sharing!

I don’t share the view of that Agent. I wouldn’t guarantee that he will exceed potential, but I don’t see a kid without potential.

I think Lemieux’s biggest problem is that he has focused a bit too much on the wrong things. I look forward to see what Quinn and his new teammate in NY can do with him. I think that in Canada and especially the west side of it, nobody will push a kid that is embracing that side of the game too much. It’s still a glorified style.

Sometimes fuses will burn, great, it’s in those situations you want a Lemieux. Either if we are completely flat and need energy, or if a situation occurs and what not. But you can’t try to make it a shift-by-shift thing and you can especially not like design a work out scheme during the summer designed with even just a little slice of boxing in mind.

Lastly, I think it’s important to note that the ‘mainstream’ view even in the scouting community is pretty off right now. People are having problems rating kids out of the CHL especially. I wouldn’t listen too much on what others say, must have an opinion on your own. The metric community is also largely a complete joke nowadays. They have tried to make it easy for themselves by hanging on for dear life to the notion that numbers can be viewed stand alone and that players aren’t affected that much by environment etc. It don’t add up...

 

[Off Sides]

How are we to compare what Nashville and Vegas did to what the Rangers did?

Granlund would not be compared to anything the Rangers sold, he had a year left on his deal. Had they sold Kreider perhaps that would be closer to apples to apples and even then I'd think the preference and value would have been pro Granlund.

Who did the Rangers sell who was on par with Stone? Who also subsequently extended? I don't see any comparison there o what the Rangers sold or even could have sold.

Being upset about the Rangers rebuild, not getting in the best lottery position concerns me as well, yet that clouding up what happened at the deadlines to the point of making comparisons that should not really be made seems fruitless.

As far as Lemieux and the rebuild, in my opinion they added a pending RFA, one who will likely be bridged, same as ADA, Pionk, Buch.

If it turns out Lemieux is good enough to really effect their draft position now or next year, wouldn't that mean this trade was pretty good?