Player Discussion Brady Tkachuk (LW) - Part XI

[Golden_Jet]

Now Brady shoots too much. Wow.

and 32nd in goals since drafted, is bad. lol.

 

[bicboi64]

This is such a bizarre argument, He's on pace for over 90 pts, why are we nitpicking how he got there?

Nobody should be expecting him to score like MacKinnon, Pastrnak or AM34, he's having plenty of success the way he is shooting so why would he modify it?

It's just looking for something to complain about, at least the criticism of his defensive play makes sense, he shoots too much for the production he gets is just weird.

I'm not complaining, just offering my interpretation of another poster's critique. If you think its just complaining for the sake of complaining about Tkachuk's game, feel free to put me on ignore because you're overlooking the several other comments I make that aren't complaining about him and cheering him.

When players with similar shooting frequency, like Pastrnak, McDavid, MacKinnon, and Matthews, are scoring at a higher rate, it’s absolutely relevant to discuss the effectiveness of this aspect of his game. Given that his peers are consistently in the top 10 in scoring over the past few years, compared to Tkachuk, it's clear that he isn't achieving the same level of success.

Statistically, relative to other high-volume shooters, he's not experiencing 'plenty of success' especially within the context of the Sens overall.

 

[umma gumma]

I'm not complaining, just offering my interpretation of another poster's critique. If you think its just complaining for the sake of complaining about Tkachuk's game, feel free to put me on ignore because you're overlooking the several other comments I make that aren't complaining about him and cheering him.

When players with similar shooting frequency, like Pastrnak, McDavid, MacKinnon, and Matthews, are scoring at a higher rate, it’s absolutely relevant to discuss the effectiveness of this aspect of his game. Given that his peers are consistently in the top 10 in scoring over the past few years, compared to Tkachuk, it's clear that he isn't achieving the same level of success.

Statistically, relative to other high-volume shooters, he's not experiencing 'plenty of success' especially within the context of the Sens overall.

Gee, I wonder why?

 

[DueDiligence]

I think what Knave is trying to say is that Brady is not THE GUY. even though a lot people here are convinced he's THE guy.

He's right.

Nobody on Ottawa is THE GUY. But Tkachuk is a key piece like Stutzle Sanderson and Ullmark.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I'm not complaining, just offering my interpretation of another poster's critique. If you think its just complaining for the sake of complaining about Tkachuk's game, feel free to put me on ignore because you're overlooking the several other comments I make that aren't complaining about him and cheering him.

When players with similar shooting frequency, like Pastrnak, McDavid, MacKinnon, and Matthews, are scoring at a higher rate, it’s absolutely relevant to discuss the effectiveness of this aspect of his game. Given that his peers are consistently in the top 10 in scoring over the past few years, compared to Tkachuk, it's clear that he isn't achieving the same level of success.

Statistically, relative to other high-volume shooters, he's not experiencing 'plenty of success' especially within the context of the Sens overall.

None of those players play the style of game game Brady plays, it’s a weird comparison,
and you’re comparing him to guys that make 40-60% more money, lol.

Plays like Wilson, Jamie Benn, these types of players, but better.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I think what Knave is trying to say is that Brady is not THE GUY. even though a lot people here are convinced he's THE guy.

He's right.

Well that would be idiotic then, if someone thought he is THE GUY,
I don’t even think Knave would say that, it’s just dumb someone would even think that.

Nobody is THE GUY on Ottawa lol.
The GUY if there is such a thing lol, would be generational player.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Nobody on Ottawa is THE GUY. But Tkachuk is a key piece like Stutzle Sanderson and Ullmark.

Well that would be idiotic then, if someone thought he is THE GUY,
I don’t even think Knave would say that, it’s just dumb someone would even think that.

Nobody is THE GUY on Ottawa lol.

no Stutzle is by far THE GUY and Sanderson when he is in form.

after that you have the guys like Brady, Norris, Batherson, Chabot, Ullmark.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I guess I just don't see the value in building around a guy who shoots the puck as much as Brady Tkachuk and converts on comparatively so little when the team continues to miss the playoffs. Last season Brady Tkachuk was 4th in shots, tied for 19th in goals. That is his career year so far. He's on pace this year to surpass last year but his pace has slowed over time. Lets see where he ends up at the end of the season.

This could very well be an offseason of addition by subtraction. Without Tkachuk maybe the players who actually score at a decent rate when they shoot the puck can elevate their games. And maybe they don't. But what we have now is not working and I'm not sure why we should keep banging our heads against the wall "he maybe it will work in season 10!"

But he's "the guy". Nobody can tell you how, why he's the guy. The team is a losing one. It never makes the playoffs. The numbers and on ice play don't reflect him being "the guy"... but he's "the guy". It's absurd.

They can't say why he's the guy because the reality is he's a power forward. He hits, he gets into dirty areas, he's a bit of a pest. And typically those guys aren't making big dollars or shooting the puck as much. We have one. His name is Brady Tkachuk. He makes big dollars. He's miscast on this team and as a result we're going on 8 years of missed playoffs.

This used to be a place where people would laugh about Brian Burke quotes about "truculence" and here we are buying it hook line and sinker. And just like Toronto's Brian Burke era it has been an unmitigated disaster.

Absolute Comedy | The Best Standup Comedy From Across North America

Absolute Comedy | Ottawa, Toronto, Kingston - The Best Standup Comedy From Across North America

www.absolutecomedy.ca

What time are you on stage tonight

no Stutzle is by far THE GUY and Sanderson when he is in form.

after that you have the guys like Brady, Norris, Batherson, Chabot, Ullmark.

lmao, there is no THE GUY.
Lol cut out the generational part of THE GUY.
Give up on the hyperbole

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Absolute Comedy | The Best Standup Comedy From Across North America

Absolute Comedy | Ottawa, Toronto, Kingston - The Best Standup Comedy From Across North America

www.absolutecomedy.ca

What time are you on stage tonight


lmao, there is no THE GUY.
Lol cut out the generational part of THE GUY.

?? Alfredsson was THE GUY he was not generational. Same with Stutzle and Sanderson.

And If you have been watching the games this year, or two years ago, it's clear that Stutzle is the engine of this team.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

Why do so many people have to be so black and white with Brady Tkachuk?

He is not a true franchise player like a MacKinnon, McDavid or Matthews. Obviously. But there are only a handful of those guys in the league.

He's also not a 2-way beast that sets the style of play for his team (eg. Kopitar, Bergeron). Not many of those guys either.

He's a very physical player who is great in the offensive zone: pacing for about 90 points. His defense needs work but there are some signs of improvement.

He's a very good offensive player who is physically problematic for 95% of the D in the league.

He's not THE guy to build around but he IS a very important part of the team's core.

But so many people here would have you believe he's completely replaceable, or that he's some untouchable.

 

[bicboi64]

None of those players play the style of game game Brady plays, it’s a weird comparison,
and you’re comparing him to guys that make 40-60% more money, lol.

Plays like Wilson, Jamie Benn, these types of players, but better.

He's better than Benn, Wilson, etc., no question at all. None of those guys play the style that Brady plays. but they all shoot at similar levels and are better than him. Their play styles are more suited to building around as well. This doesn't mean Tkachuk sucks, just that his particular skill set isn't this secret key to success for winning because it's doesn't produce the results some fans think it does.

The whole point of the comparison is that Tkachuk scoring as much as he is considering how much he shoots relative to his peers isn't particularly impressive.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Why do so many people have to be so black and white with Brady Tkachuk?

He is not a true franchise player like a MacKinnon, McDavid or Matthews. Obviously. But there are only a handful of those guys in the league.

He's also not a 2-way beast that sets the style of play for his team (eg. Kopitar, Bergeron). Not many of those guys either.

He's a very physical player who is great in the offensive zone: pacing for about 90 points. His defense needs work but there are some signs of improvement.

He's a very good offensive player who is physically problematic for 95% of the D in the league.

He's not THE guy to build around but he IS a very important part of the team's core.

But so many people here would have you believe he's completely replaceable, or that he's some untouchable.

Cause there are some people comparing him to players that make 4O- 60% more money.

But have nothing bad to say on the players that aren’t performing this year.

They prefer yelling at the clouds, instead of criticizing Pinto, Sanderson, or Zub when he plays this year.

 

[PlayersLtd]

I think what Knave is trying to say is that Brady is not THE GUY. even though a lot people here are convinced he's THE guy.

He's right.

Players are rarely 'the guy' until all of a sudden they are. Very few players are the moment they enter the league or even years into their career. McKinnon wasn't the guy for a while until he got his chance and ran with it. Is Matthews 'the guy'? Who was the guy on St Louis in 2019, Ryan Oreilly?

I find it really odd that people label players based on a what have you done for me lately mentality when quite clearly the player has the potential to make magic once the opportunity is there. I'm not as bullish on Brady as some here but I think it's naive to start writing his potential off because of team success so far. He has his warts but he also hasn't exactly been giving great opportunities. Crazy to think but 25 year old players can still hit another gear, especially those plagued by profound incompetencies within a franchise from day 1.

Could he find himself as the betting odds favourite for the Conn Smythe if this team went on a run? Yep, probably.

 

[Micklebot]

I'm not complaining, just offering my interpretation of another poster's critique. If you think its just complaining for the sake of complaining about Tkachuk's game, feel free to put me on ignore because you're overlooking the several other comments I make that aren't complaining about him and cheering him.

When players with similar shooting frequency, like Pastrnak, McDavid, MacKinnon, and Matthews, are scoring at a higher rate, it’s absolutely relevant to discuss the effectiveness of this aspect of his game. Given that his peers are consistently in the top 10 in scoring over the past few years, compared to Tkachuk, it's clear that he isn't achieving the same level of success.

Statistically, relative to other high-volume shooters, he's not experiencing 'plenty of success' especially within the context of the Sens overall.

Statistically relative to McDavid he's not having success but if the bar is McDavid, AM34 and Pasternak, then maybe you need to adjust what you consider success.

I wasn't trying to suggest you were complaining for the sake of it, but for some reason, you are trying to rationalize an argument which is.

Within the context of the sens, Tkachuk isn't the problem, he isn't the reason our record is what it is, he's done his part, he can't however make the bottom 6 score more, or make a save for Forsberg. He can't make the PK more successful when he isn't on it. He is having plenty of success, unfortunately it's a team sport and other areas have not been as successful as him.

 

[Golden_Jet]

He's better than Benn, Wilson, etc., no question at all. None of those guys play the style that Brady plays. but they all shoot at similar levels and are better than him. Their play styles are more suited to building around as well. This doesn't mean Tkachuk sucks, just that his particular skill set isn't this secret key to success for winning because it's doesn't produce the results some fans think it does.

The whole point of the comparison is that Tkachuk scoring as much as he is considering how much he shoots relative to his peers isn't particularly impressive.

His peers arent players that make 40-60% more money

his so called peers, don’t do any of the other things Brady does.

Why aren’t the so called peers always around the top in hits or fights.

They are different players. just weird that has to be pointed out.

No-one in the NHL think Brady plays like MacKinnon, McDavid , Matthew’s, who make way more money, but here we are.

 

[bicboi64]

Statistically relative to McDavid he's not having success but if the bar is McDavid, AM34 and Pasternak, then maybe you need to adjust what you consider success.

I wasn't trying to suggest you were complaining for the sake of it, but for some reason, you are trying to rationalize an argument which is.

Within the context of the sens, Tkachuk isn't the problem, he isn't the reason our record is what it is, he's done his part, he can't however make the bottom 6 score more, or make a save for Forsberg. He can't make the PK more successful when he isn't on it. He is having plenty of success, unfortunately it's a team sport and other areas have not been as successful as him.

What's the point of mentioning the bolded text when I haven't even remotely implied that Tkachuk is the problem? I haven't said anything about Tkachuk being a problem. Even Knave's post isn't complaining for the sake of it; it's a discussion about a specific aspect of a player's performance within a player thread. It's not advocating for a trade or blaming him for the team's issues. Where else should posters discuss aspects of a player's game?

Discussions about a player's shooting and success shouldn't provoke this much defensiveness. If posters argue that high-volume shooting should be applauded due to its tangible success, then it's a valid point for discussion. Comparing Tkachuk in a single category to other leaders (be they McDavid or Matthews) in that category is perfectly valid, especially considering his high-volume shooting is often seen as a major strength.

 

[bicboi64]

his so called peers, don’t do any of the other things Brady does.

Why aren’t the so called peers always around the top in hits or fights.

Because hits and fights aren't as important to winning games as scoring lol? Having any player be better at hitting than they are scoring isn't exactly something to brag about

 

[Dionysus]

He's better than Benn, Wilson, etc., no question at all. None of those guys play the style that Brady plays. but they all shoot at similar levels and are better than him. Their play styles are more suited to building around as well. This doesn't mean Tkachuk sucks, just that his particular skill set isn't this secret key to success for winning because it's doesn't produce the results some fans think it does.

The whole point of the comparison is that Tkachuk scoring as much as he is considering how much he shoots relative to his peers isn't particularly impressive.

If I was trying to convince people Brady is not a good player and the Sens would be better off moving on from him, I would abandon the above points of argument immediately lol. Doesn't make much sense, just sounds like opinion poorly dressed as something else.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Players are rarely 'the guy' until all of a sudden they are. Very few players are the moment they enter the league or even years into their career. McKinnon wasn't the guy for a while until he got his chance and ran with it. Is Matthews 'the guy'? Who was the guy on St Louis in 2019, Ryan Oreilly?

I find it really odd that people label players based on a what have you done for me lately mentality when quite clearly the player has the potential to make magic once the opportunity is there. I'm not as bullish on Brady as some here but I think it's naive to start writing his potential off because of team success so far. He has his warts but he also hasn't exactly been giving great opportunities. Crazy to think but 25 year old players can still hit another gear, especially those plagued by profound incompetencies within a franchise from day 1.

Could he find himself as the betting odds favourite for the Conn Smythe if this team went on a run? Yep, probably.

I am taking into account potential, and based on that if you're relying on Brady to be the guy now or in the future, good luck in the basement.

Thankfully we have Stutzle and Sanderson so guys like Norris, Chabot, Batherson and Brady can be insulated. Otherwise we'd be screwed.

This also means that any of the latter can be traded if the return makes the team better.

Stutzle and Sanderson can be traded too but it is unlikely someone give us the value we need to make it happen.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Because hits and fights aren't as important to winning games as scoring lol? Having any player be better at hitting than they are scoring isn't exactly something to brag about

No but you need players that are mean to play against, and Brady scores along with those traits.

Still waiting for you to answer why you’re comparing him to players that make 50% more, you dodged that part of the response again.

I said Brady isn’t one of those players, that make way more than him. If you think he is, then can’t help you, neither can anyone.

 

[Knave]

If I was trying to convince people Brady is not a good player and the Sens would be better off moving on from him, I would abandon the above points of argument immediately lol. Doesn't make much sense, just sounds like opinion poorly dressed as something else.

Who is saying this? Who is saying he's not a good player?

He's a guy who can sneak into the top 25 in scoring in his career year. That's a really good player. That's a star player.

He can be a good player and if this team fails to make the playoffs in year 4 with him as a captain it might be time to move on from him. Moving on from him doesn't mean he's a bad player. Boston moved on from Thornton who is a Hall of Famer.

 

[bicboi64]

No but you need hurts that are mean to play against, and Brady scores along with those traits.

Still waiting for you to answer why you’re comparing him to players that make 50% more, you dodged that part of the response again.

I said Brady isn’t one of those players, that make way more than him. If you think he is, then can’t help you, neither can anyone.

Because how much Tkachuk makes isn't really relevant to the discussion about how effective his shooting is? If Tkachuk magically started earning more and hit double digits in cap, it won't automatically make his production increase or decrease, it literally has no bearing on the discussion.

For his caphit, Tkachuk is outproducing it and is a bargain, but I've never argued other wise and it has nothing to do with me thinking his high volume shooting isn't the be all end all of him as a player.

If I was trying to convince people Brady is not a good player and the Sens would be better off moving on from him, I would abandon the above points of argument immediately lol. Doesn't make much sense, just sounds like opinion poorly dressed as something else.

Not trying to convince anyone that he's not a good player or that we should move him because of his shooting. Just tryna interpret another posters thoughts because I think it aligns with what I feel, that high volume shooting on its own doesn't automatically mean a good thing.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I am taking into account potential, and based on that if you're relying on Brady to be the guy now or in the future, good luck in the basement.

Thankfully we have Stutzle and Sanderson so guys like Norris, Chabot, Batherson and Brady can be insulated. Otherwise we'd be screwed.

This also means that any of the latter can be traded if the return makes the team better.

Stutzle and Sanderson can be traded too but it is unlikely someone give us the value we need to make it happen.

Lmao Sanderson is bad this year. we can’t sugar coat it like you do. He’s taken a step back unfortunately.
Sanderson needs to improve, 2 EVP, or is it all Zub’s and Harmonic fault
It’s both, but mostly on Sandy this year.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Lmao Sanderson is bad this year. we can’t sugar coat it like you do. He’s taken a step back unfortunately.
Sanderson needs to improve, 2 EVP, or is it all Zub’s and Harmonic fault It’s both, but mostly on Sandy this year.

I know he's been bad, but that still doesn't take away his talent and what he is capable of.

 

[Micklebot]

What's the point of mentioning the bolded text when I haven't even remotely implied that Tkachuk is the problem? I haven't said anything about Tkachuk being a problem. Even Knave's post isn't complaining for the sake of it; it's a discussion about a specific aspect of a player's performance within a player thread. It's not advocating for a trade or blaming him for the team's issues. Where else should posters discuss aspects of a player's game?

Discussions about a player's shooting and success shouldn't provoke this much defensiveness. If posters argue that high-volume shooting should be applauded due to its tangible success, then it's a valid point for discussion. Comparing Tkachuk in a single category to other leaders (be they McDavid or Matthews) in that category is perfectly valid, especially considering his high-volume shooting is often seen as a major strength.

You brought up team success, said in the context of the sens he isn't having success, I disagree. He is having success. He is one of the most successful players on the team, and he's top 30 in scoring in the league. The team is struggling, he is not.

The whole idea of framing his performance in the context of other high volume shooters is just a bizarre way to minimize his performance. The fact is he is performing at a very high level, trying to spin getting lots of shots on net as a negative is just strange. If he wasn't top 30 in pts and on pace for 40+ goals, maybe we could start nitpicking his shot selection, but what he's doing is clearly working fine,