Proposal: Bobby Ryan for Dubinsky + Hartnell (No retention)
- Thread starter Benjamin
- Start date
1. Ottawa can't afford this.
2. Ottawa has no room at centre for this. I guess moving Zibanejad to the third line and Pageau to the 4th, while Lazar/Smith permanently to the wings would create great depth but it is completely unnecessary and expesnive depth.
3. Hartnell's contract is, by far, worse than Ryan.
4. Ottawa loads up on LW where they have reasonable depth with MacArthur, Hoffman, Smith, Puempel, Paul, and a **** ton of prospects in exchange for making their RW depth: Stone/Lazar/Neil/Nothing.
Kind of moronic trade for Ottawa and I haven't even addressed it from Columbus' perspective.
2. Ottawa has no room at centre for this. I guess moving Zibanejad to the third line and Pageau to the 4th, while Lazar/Smith permanently to the wings would create great depth but it is completely unnecessary and expesnive depth.
3. Hartnell's contract is, by far, worse than Ryan.
4. Ottawa loads up on LW where they have reasonable depth with MacArthur, Hoffman, Smith, Puempel, Paul, and a **** ton of prospects in exchange for making their RW depth: Stone/Lazar/Neil/Nothing.
Kind of moronic trade for Ottawa and I haven't even addressed it from Columbus' perspective.
usahockey22flyers
2 years away from being 2 years away
"Little to no though put into this"
Why start the thread?
That being said, OTT takes a hard pass, they have C's
Why start the thread?
That being said, OTT takes a hard pass, they have C's
JKinCLE
killing time @ work
Are you sure? Hartnell makes 2.5m less a year and has outscored Ryan the past few years (I think last year Ryan had 7 more points in a couple extra games last season) while providing a lot more in the good ol' "intangibles" dept. Bobby Ryan makes $7.25m compared to Hartnell's $4.75m.
Age might be a factor eventually but hasn't shown to be yet. Plus with the buyouts of Tyutin and Boll, the Jackets don't need to dump his cap yet.
Plus Hartnell can definitely spell i-n-t-e-n-s-e.
Just from a cbj perspective, Ryan is not what the jackets need at all. An overpaid winger. Personally I wouldn't trade Dubinsky alone for him. Its well known Dubi is the motor of the team and plays a position the cbj are sorely lacking. He will be the 1 or 2C on the team.
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
No. Hell no. Not even a little. Not even briefly considered. Not for one microsecond. Ryan barely managed to outproduce Hartnell by the slimmest of margins this past year, and isn't that far ahead of Dubinsky - hell, in 2014-2015 he was well behind both of them in P/60, and his possession numbers are consistently well behind both of them throughout their careers - and you want us to give up both?
Absolutely not a chance in hell. No way no how. Never. No.
Absolutely not a chance in hell. No way no how. Never. No.
Extra Texture
A new career
Another aspect that wouldnt work: the Sens take back almost 11 million in salary (and keep it all for another three years) while Stone, Zibanejad, Hoffman, Pageau, Lazar, Ceci and others will be looking for raises in that time.
Taking that kind of salary back (or turning 7.25M into 10.5M+) could screw them in a year or two.
Taking that kind of salary back (or turning 7.25M into 10.5M+) could screw them in a year or two.
The salary is only 3 mil more for Ottawa this upcoming season but we gain two top 6 forward. Then it lessens over the next two seasons. I don't know the exact budget but we could potentially afford it.
Turris
Dubinsky
Pageau
Lazar
Zibanejad to the wing
Hartnells contract is only 3 years. Id trade Ryan for Hartnell. Easily.
Spend only a little more but gain depth.
Ryan = Dubinsky but the Jackets clear money, cap space and a roster spot. They also get away with no retention on Hartnell.
Trade doesn't work for either team. Moving Dubinsky adds expensive center depth for Ottawa that they cannot afford and leaves Columbus short at center. The idea of Ottawa getting a decent return for Ryan's expensive contract is good but this deal doesn't address any needs and technically makes they cap worse.
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
Gosh, really?
I'd also happily trade Clarkson for MacArthur, but I doubt that would go over very well.
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
What context? The most you allowed for is "money, cap space, and a roster spot". The first two are nice but no longer a high-pressure priority, and we don't need that roster spot cleared; Hartnell's still around so he can mentor the kids that are already coming up.
So "Hartnell for Ryan" becomes "trade your somewhat flawed, possibly declining but still very useful player on an awkward contract for someone even more flawed and in an infinitely worse contract situation". Thus, Clarkson for MacArthur.
"Hartnells contract is only 3 years. Id trade Ryan for Hartnell. Easily."
was responding to:
"3. Hartnell's contract is, by far, worse than Ryan."
Im saying Ryan's contract is worse than Hartnell's.
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
danielpalfredsson
youtube dot com /watch?v=CdqMZ_s7Y6k
- Aug 14, 2013
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Makes no sense for Ottawa. There are two reasons to trade Bobby Ryan.
1) It makes Ottawa better.
2) It might not make Ottawa better, but the team is paranoid that Ryan will decline and the backend of his deal will be a cap albatross, and they see an opportunity to get out of it without taking on another contract that could be equally as toxic.
This isn't me stating I feel that way about Ryan's deal, but it is a sentiment some Senators fans have expressed and it seems to be what drives most "we should trade Ryan" talk.
As much hate as the Ryan contract gets, Dubinsky is signed for almost 6M per until he is almost 36. They are both signed to about the same age. Ryan is more productive and fills a greater need for Ottawa. Ryan also has a higher upside if he finally puts it together in Ottawa. Although, that isn't likely.
Getting Dubinsky doesn't make Ottawa better because it creates a huge hole on RW while overstocking on centres, and it also doesn't help ease any long term salary concerns.
Hartnell has negative value to Ottawa because of his NMC. Moving Ryan for one NMC player and Dubinsky means Ottawa will have to leave another forward unprotected.
Not to mention, Ottawa is a budget team, so they probably aren't in a position to dump 7.7M (Ryan+roster player) for 10.9M of salary.
Two budget teams probably don't make the best trading partners because they both have the exact same weakness, so it becomes hard for them to play off of each other. The Senators deal with the Maple Leafs last year was an example of two teams playing perfectly off of each other's weaknesses to make a win-win deal. Something like that won't work here because CBJ is looking to cut salary and as a budget team themselves Ottawa cannot take on more salary.
1) It makes Ottawa better.
2) It might not make Ottawa better, but the team is paranoid that Ryan will decline and the backend of his deal will be a cap albatross, and they see an opportunity to get out of it without taking on another contract that could be equally as toxic.
This isn't me stating I feel that way about Ryan's deal, but it is a sentiment some Senators fans have expressed and it seems to be what drives most "we should trade Ryan" talk.
As much hate as the Ryan contract gets, Dubinsky is signed for almost 6M per until he is almost 36. They are both signed to about the same age. Ryan is more productive and fills a greater need for Ottawa. Ryan also has a higher upside if he finally puts it together in Ottawa. Although, that isn't likely.
Getting Dubinsky doesn't make Ottawa better because it creates a huge hole on RW while overstocking on centres, and it also doesn't help ease any long term salary concerns.
Hartnell has negative value to Ottawa because of his NMC. Moving Ryan for one NMC player and Dubinsky means Ottawa will have to leave another forward unprotected.
Not to mention, Ottawa is a budget team, so they probably aren't in a position to dump 7.7M (Ryan+roster player) for 10.9M of salary.
Two budget teams probably don't make the best trading partners because they both have the exact same weakness, so it becomes hard for them to play off of each other. The Senators deal with the Maple Leafs last year was an example of two teams playing perfectly off of each other's weaknesses to make a win-win deal. Something like that won't work here because CBJ is looking to cut salary and as a budget team themselves Ottawa cannot take on more salary.
If Ottawa was willing to eat one of the Islanders contracts(Grabovski, Kulemin, Bailey) I could see the Islanders interested in Ryan since they need a top line RW
I think the OP underestimates Ryan's value, especially if Ottawa eats a short bad contract
I think the OP underestimates Ryan's value, especially if Ottawa eats a short bad contract
Canadiens Ghost
Mr. Objectivity
bert
Registered User
Hardly the same thing. Hartnell is 5 years older than Ryan. Macarthur is a much better player than Clarkson and Ryan is better than Hartnell.
