Proposal: Blues - isles

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CREW99AW

Registered User
Mar 12, 2002
40,928
3,389
Are you seriously saying that the Islanders wouldn't be better with Pietrangelo and Schenn on it? Because Pietrangelo alone is a massive upgrade on anything you have on the blueline, and if you really want to say "Schenn would only be on our 3rd line" that's still better than what you have there.

Are you unable to understand that the isles 9 months into Lou's tenure are not a legitimate SC contender in the next 1-2 seasons,even with Pietrangelo and Schenn?

Isles need more speed &skill.Tbey need to improve their underwhelming pp and building around Barzal, they need their bluechippers to develop well.

Not trading several bluechippers for short-term gain.
 

LamorielloAndSon

Registered User
May 28, 2018
1,775
702
I thought Bellows and Wahlstrom were well regarded prospects. How are they interchangeable with mega bust MDC?
Dal colle is only 22 years old and is single handedly turning it around, he’s not playing with quality ahlers and is finally lighting it up, most fans saw this season as his last chance to turn it around and he finally is
 

TOGuy14

Registered User
Dec 30, 2010
12,065
3,576
Toronto
Dal colle is only 22 years old and is single handedly turning it around, he’s not playing with quality ahlers and is finally lighting it up, most fans saw this season as his last chance to turn it around and he finally is

I think the jury needs more time on MDC right now.

He has been very underwhelming so far in his career and although he has a bunch of goals this year he is shooting something like 27% with hardly any assists. Need way more time to separate trend vs streak.
 
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CREW99AW

Registered User
Mar 12, 2002
40,928
3,389
Ok so who’s gonna be the number 2 center for the isles?

Are you suggesting Schenn is the only option?

Early in the season there was a report Lou kicked the tires on Duchene. Maybe Duchene is an option on July 1st.
Or maybe Lou decides Nelson's strong season is the result of playing under Trotz and he is worth an extension
 
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IslesNation1995

Registered User
Oct 22, 2013
46
1
Isles

Tarasenko
2019 4th

Blues

Wahlstrom
Bellows
2020 1st
2019 2nd (Calgary)

This allows the isles to finally get an elite 1st line winger and then IMO trade Eberle & Leddy (Devon Toews will take his spot) at the deadline for prospects and picks.

Lee - Barzal - Tarasenko
Beau- Nelson- Bailey
Komorov- Filp - Ho Sang
MM-CC- Clutter

Toews- Boychuk
Pelech - Pulock
Hickey - Mayfield

Sbisa/ Aho

The leddy trade isn’t something that HAS to be done, as I realize throwing Toews into first line minutes is not ideal, but with every passing game it seems Leddys trade value continues to diminish. Idk if it’s just me but it seems as if he is disinterested and/or lazy at times on the ice. Same trade can be made and only Eberle can be flipped for picks at the deadline to recoup some assets lost. Let me know what both sides think.
 
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LamorielloAndSon

Registered User
May 28, 2018
1,775
702
Are you suggesting Schenn is the only option?

Early in the season there was a report Lou kicked the tires on Duchene. Maybe Duchene is an option on July 1st.
Or maybe Lou decides Nelson's strong season is the result of playing under Trotz and he is worth an extension
I’m suggesting that they have nothing in the pipe line to fill that hole, Nelson is doing great under trotz but he is also best as a winger

Also schenn would be a great add and would push Nelson to the third line to probably play with filpulla and hosang and komarov would get pushed down to play with Martin and cizikas pushing clutterbuck out of the line up
 

CREW99AW

Registered User
Mar 12, 2002
40,928
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I’m suggesting that they have nothing in the pipe line to fill that hole, Nelson is doing great under trotz but he is also best as a winger

Also schenn would be a great add and would push Nelson to the third line to probably play with filpulla and hosang and komarov would get pushed down to play with Martin and cizikas pushing clutterbuck out of the line up

I am aware what is in the pipeline.
I have previously expressed how leery I am to giving Nelson a fat extension. There was an early season Newsday article, where Nelson spoke about wanting an extension. I would rather extend Nelson, then use bluechip prospects +1st rounders for 1-2 yr short term additions.

And do not rule out a big July 1st offer for Duchene,who Lou kicked the tires on.
 
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CREW99AW

Registered User
Mar 12, 2002
40,928
3,389
Isles

Tarasenko
2019 4th

Blues

Wahlstrom
Bellows
2020 1st
2019 2nd (Calgary)

This allows the isles to finally get an elite 1st line winger and then IMO trade Eberle & Leddy (Devon Toews will take his spot) at the deadline for prospects and picks.

Lee - Barzal - Tarasenko
Beau- Nelson- Bailey
Komorov- Filp - Ho Sang
MM-CC- Clutter

Toews- Boychuk
Pelech - Pulock
Hickey - Mayfield

Sbisa/ Aho

The leddy trade isn’t something that HAS to be done, as I realize throwing Toews into first line minutes is not ideal, but with every passing game it seems Leddys trade value continues to diminish. Idk if it’s just me but it seems as if he is disinterested and/or lazy at times on the ice. Same trade can be made and only Eberle can be flipped for picks at the deadline to recoup some assets lost. Let me know what both sides think.

I had thought Leddy might be nursing a nagging injury,but there have been no reports of injuries.
As you point out, he looks lazy and disinterested.
 

LamorielloAndSon

Registered User
May 28, 2018
1,775
702
I am aware what is in the pipeline.
I have previously expressed how leery I am to giving Nelson a fat extension. There was an early season Newsday article, where Nelson spoke about wanting an extension. I would rather extend Nelson, then use bluechip prospects +1st rounders for 1-2 yr short term additions.

And do not rule out a big July 1st offer for Duchene,who Lou kicked the tires on.
Trades and free agency are different, you can’t bank on a player coming to the isles when there are 30 other teams also but if you get them in a trade you know that they are playing
 

Whitsmith803

Registered User
Jul 11, 2016
227
14
St. Louis, MO
So The Blue traded 2 first rounders including one we know for sure was a late first rounder for 2 full years of Schenn, but the Islanders trade a 1st, and 2 guys who were picked in the first(one which I would consider a higher end prospect) for half a season of Schenn?

Flyers under sold Schenn which in part got Hextall fired... Schenn is coming off 70 point season and is controlled for another 1 1/2 at 5.75

Like ROR looking at what someone was traded before for doesn’t = what they will be traded for in the future example look at Hall from the Devils - terrible trade
 

Whitsmith803

Registered User
Jul 11, 2016
227
14
St. Louis, MO
3 1st's for Schenn? You sure that's enough? I think the Blues get jobbed on that deal. I would hold out for McDavid and a small add from Edmonton. :facepalm:

Also, what would you give us for Barzal if that's the cost for Schenn? 7 or 8 1st rounders?

Funny Bc the Blues gave up two 1st rd picks to get Schenn - then last year ended up having his best year w 70 points he’s worth less??
 

CREW99AW

Registered User
Mar 12, 2002
40,928
3,389
Trades and free agency are different, you can’t bank on a player coming to the isles when there are 30 other teams also but if you get them in a trade you know that they are playing
You are missing a key point.

Isles were pushing for a EK trade this past summer.
Lou was unwilling to ignore the lack of term on his deal.
If the isles ,in a more desperate situation, were not willing to give up top prospects & 1sts for 1 yr of EK, then I do not see them giving up top prospects +1st for 1-2 playoff runs with Schenn + Pietrangelo.
 
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67Blues

Got it for Bobby
Mar 22, 2013
4,551
4,894
Section 111
Isles

Tarasenko
2019 4th

Blues

Wahlstrom
Bellows
2020 1st
2019 2nd (Calgary)

This allows the isles to finally get an elite 1st line winger and then IMO trade Eberle & Leddy (Devon Toews will take his spot) at the deadline for prospects and picks.

Lee - Barzal - Tarasenko
Beau- Nelson- Bailey
Komorov- Filp - Ho Sang
MM-CC- Clutter

Toews- Boychuk
Pelech - Pulock
Hickey - Mayfield

Sbisa/ Aho

The leddy trade isn’t something that HAS to be done, as I realize throwing Toews into first line minutes is not ideal, but with every passing game it seems Leddys trade value continues to diminish. Idk if it’s just me but it seems as if he is disinterested and/or lazy at times on the ice. Same trade can be made and only Eberle can be flipped for picks at the deadline to recoup some assets lost. Let me know what both sides think.
That isn't too bad of value if the Blues are going to completely blow it up and retool. Those players/picks probably won't be effective for at least 2-3 years which for a rebuilding team probably fits their calendar. That being said, the team has given no indication that this is their direction and is only listening to quality for quality trades would be my guess, and that doesn't address that. If you are having trouble scoring, the last thing you do is trade your most potent scorer for 2-3 year futures. If David Perron is your most dangerous scoring threat, you are staring at a top 5 pick for a few years.
 
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CodeE

step on snek
Dec 20, 2007
9,938
4,998
Los Angeles, CA
Yet again, I am not saying Pietrangelo brings back Dobson+Walhstrom+1st. Bellows, Wilde and a 1st though? It's not "the top prospects" but it's 2 pretty legitimate prospects, and that offsets the 2nd pick Tampa sent over. Hell, I'm even fine if you want to top-10 protect that 1st for a year. But you're kidding yourself if you think Ishkakov, Salo and a conditional 1st is getting you a top-15 defenseman. At most, it would get get a long pause, followed by "tell you what, we'll think about it - if we're interested, we'll call you" and a no response after that even in the absence of an open declaration that Petro was on the market. It's sure as hell not getting you anywhere if Pietrangelo gets dangled around the league.

Howden wasn't a top prospect? No, he wasn't Foote or Point [and I wouldn't call Point a prospect after nearly 2 full seasons in the NHL at the time that trade was made] - but he was very highly regarded in the organization [generally 2nd to 5th depending on where you look]; he and Hajek were seen as a high price to pay but one the Lightning were willing to make for multiple Cup runs while the window is wide open. Claiming "well, it would be a mid-round pick, it would have more value than Tampa's unprotected 1st," ... well, if adding Pietrangelo doesn't make your team better, just say "we're no better off, I'm not interested." [Which would be laughable, but hey - everyone's entitled to an opinion, even if it's off base.

Besides, i
f your goal with such a trade is trying to win the Cup, do you really care if it ends up being 31st if it accomplishes the goal? Or, maybe you're just trying to be better than mediocre but not good enough to veer towards elite ... which is OK, I guess.

Just getting a lot of biased opinions here and not very many facts. Trying to vault up the value of assets like Howden & Hajek so you can point to it as a comparison. Then turn around and say Dobson+Wahlstrom "pretty close" while Ishahakov+Salo+conditional 1st is an absolutely ridiculous comparison and I'm kidding myself.

I get that you want the best return for Pietrangelo, if you're trading him. You want to value Pietrangelo highly and someone like Brett Howden highly while devaluing guys like Dobson + Wahlstrom. Just because you want it to be that way, doesn't mean it'll happen in reality.

So ... read what I'm actually saying - not what you think I'm saying. But you're kidding yourself if you think you're getting a top-15 defenseman in the league for a conditional 1st [that I suppose could go lower; it seems like giving up a whole 1st-round pick is scary and so there needs to be conditions on it to make it a 2nd unless some bar gets hit; I'll let you or someone else explain what conditional is supposed to mean here] and two guys who don't come close to ranking in your your top-20 prospects and probably would just barely crack our top-20 [but not top-15].

Always cute when someone pulls the "clearly you're an idiot who doesn't understand how conditional picks work, I'll let someone else explain it because I am far too smart to waste my time on fools" card. Nothing makes me lose respect faster than pointless ad hominum attacks to establish how smart you are and how stupid I am.

I know exactly what you're saying. It's just what Colorado Avalanche fans said when we wanted Duchene and his 1.5 years:

1. Duchene's value is sky high. We decide how much you're going to pay and you get no say in the matter.

2. Man, your best prospects kinda suck. Barzal is pretty much a poor man's Tyson Jost. Sorokin will never come over. You think Barzal will be a solid NHL player? Geez, what an Islander homer. All us fans who understand how hockey works know he'll never amount to anything.

Did we pull the trigger and move assets for 1.5 years of Duchene? No, Ottawa did, and now suffer through heavy buyer's remorse. Imagine how dominant that Colorado offense would be with a long-term 1-2 punch of MacK/Barzal. Imagine how opposite-of-dominant the Isles would be losing Tavares and Duchene in back to back offseasons with no Barzy.

So please, find your Ottawa. Or get a Brett Howden level prospect and say that's just as good as a Dobson or Wahlstrom.
 

lifelonghockeyfan

Registered User
Dec 18, 2015
6,283
1,357
Lake Huron
Making a block buster proposal as my first post on this forum will probably be kinda embarrassing but

First I don't think it would wise for Isles to give up futures. Isles are 99% doomed to finish out of the playoffs this season anyways.
Pietrangelo has a NTC. Betcha there are few teams he would be agree to be traded to...and gotta believe the Isles aren't one of them.
 

Sparksrus3

Registered User
Jun 2, 2012
10,088
4,981
Trades and free agency are different, you can’t bank on a player coming to the isles when there are 30 other teams also


but if you get them in a trade you know that they are playing


Evgeny Nabokov waiver pickup did not want to play here
Lubimir Visnovsky trade did not want to play here
Kirk Muller trade ( his body was here but he wasn't here to play )
 

Celtic Note

Living the dream
Dec 22, 2006
17,245
6,190
Funny Bc the Blues gave up two 1st rd picks to get Schenn - then last year ended up having his best year w 70 points he’s worth less??
The Blues paid two firsts to get Schenn and rid themselves of Lethera. That Lethera component seems to be forgotten by many.
 
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67Blues

Got it for Bobby
Mar 22, 2013
4,551
4,894
Section 111
The Blues paid two firsts to get Schenn and rid themselves of Lethera. That Lethera component seems to be forgotten by many.
I think most Philly fans would agree that they would like to forget the Lehtera component also and not just in terms of the trade :laugh:
 

MattMartin

Crypto Dbag™
Feb 10, 2007
17,654
10,298
Long Island
Funny Bc the Blues gave up two 1st rd picks to get Schenn - then last year ended up having his best year w 70 points he’s worth less??
Worthless? no, he is a very good player. The 1st round picks were 27OA and 14OA. Obviously the Blues didn't think they would miss the playoffs in 17/18 hence why it was even 14th. The Flyers were looking at 2 late 1st rounders in that trade but did better. The proposal for the Islanders are 2 players already drafted and a 1st this year. Bellows should be a NHL'er by next year and Dobson still has time before he will see NHL ice (maybe 2 years) and a 1st in 2019.

We can't pay you for missing the playoffs or for dumping Lehtera's salary because of what turned out to be a bad trade. We can give you fair market value like Bellows and a 1st in 2019 which is extremely fair. You're asking for 2 of our top 5 prospects + a 1st, that's not what you gave up to get him.

You also realize that in 5 NHL seasons Schenn hit 70 points last year but didn't even hit 60 in the other 4 years, don't act like he is a consistent 70 point player when he has 340 points in 545 NHL games.

Edit: One last thing, going by what you gave up for Schenn and dumping Lehtera I will make a similar proposal..

Islanders 2019 1st
Islanders 2020 1st (if in the top 10 can be deferred til 2021)
Clutterbuck.
 
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Bye Bye Blueston

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Dec 4, 2016
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Houston, TX
Worthless? no, he is a very good player. The 1st round picks were 27OA and 14OA. Obviously the Blues didn't think they would miss the playoffs in 17/18 hence why it was even 14th. The Flyers were looking at 2 late 1st rounders in that trade but did better. The proposal for the Islanders are 2 players already drafted and a 1st this year. Bellows should be a NHL'er by next year and Dobson still has time before he will see NHL ice (maybe 2 years) and a 1st in 2019.

We can't pay you for missing the playoffs or for dumping Lehtera's salary because of what turned out to be a bad trade. We can give you fair market value like Bellows and a 1st in 2019 which is extremely fair. You're asking for 2 of our top 5 prospects + a 1st, that's not what you gave up to get him.

You also realize that in 5 NHL seasons Schenn hit 70 points last year but didn't even hit 60 in the other 4 years, don't act like he is a consistent 70 point player when he has 340 points in 545 NHL games.

Edit: One last thing, going by what you gave up for Schenn and dumping Lehtera I will make a similar proposal..

Islanders 2019 1st
Islanders 2020 1st (if in the top 10 can be deferred til 2021)
Clutterbuck.
Could Clutterbuck be signed any longer?
 

LamorielloAndSon

Registered User
May 28, 2018
1,775
702
Evgeny Nabokov waiver pickup did not want to play here
Lubimir Visnovsky trade did not want to play here
Kirk Muller trade ( his body was here but he wasn't here to play )
Nabby didn’t want to finish a season here and then came to play a couple full seasons and played his ass off

Lubo did it for the union and never had a personal problem coming here
 

IslesNation1995

Registered User
Oct 22, 2013
46
1
That isn't too bad of value if the Blues are going to completely blow it up and retool. Those players/picks probably won't be effective for at least 2-3 years which for a rebuilding team probably fits their calendar. That being said, the team has given no indication that this is their direction and is only listening to quality for quality trades would be my guess, and that doesn't address that. If you are having trouble scoring, the last thing you do is trade your most potent scorer for 2-3 year futures. If David Perron is your most dangerous scoring threat, you are staring at a top 5 pick for a few years.
Fair enough. I look at it as STL has a real chance to go into full rebuild and in 3 years they’re already contenders again. Trade Senko this year for the above package also gives u a great shot at Jack Hughes. Increasing your odds at Jack Hughes/Kakko is also a +++ for STL in this deal
 

CREW99AW

Registered User
Mar 12, 2002
40,928
3,389
Nabby didn’t want to finish a season here and then came to play a couple full seasons and played his ass off

Lubo did it for the union and never had a personal problem coming here

Both Lubo and Nabby made it clear they wanted to go to a contender,wanted no part of joining the isles.
How many championships has 28/ 29 yr old Pietrangelo won? Yeah,I am sure the isles would have no problem extending him :rolleyes:
 

Jester9881

Registered User
May 16, 2006
14,350
3,460
Long Island NY
Isles
trade Eberle & Leddy (Devon Toews will take his spot) at the deadline for prospects and picks.


Toews- Boychuk
Pelech - Pulock
Hickey - Mayfield

Sbisa/ Aho

The leddy trade isn’t something that HAS to be done, as I realize throwing Toews into first line minutes is not ideal, but with every passing game it seems Leddys trade value continues to diminish. Idk if it’s just me but it seems as if he is disinterested and/or lazy at times on the ice. Same trade can be made and only Eberle can be flipped for picks at the deadline to recoup some assets lost. Let me know what both sides think.

This mindset is far too prevalent among the Islander fan base and it needs to stop. Not only because of what you pointed out, giving a rookie top pair minutes but because of the depth it leaves behind him.

NICK LEDDY IS NOT THE PROBLEM get that through your damn heads

The problem is behind Nick Leddy you've got a traffic cone and a miniature toy traffic cone. Replacing the teams best LD (by a mile) with a rookie does not solve that problem. Now, you want to talk about replacing Hickey or Pelech with Toews? THAT is smart...

Leddy - Boychuk
Toews - Pulock
Pelech - Mayfield

And I'd still be looking for another D to replace one of the bottom pairing, and preferably Pelech.
 

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