Post-Game Talk: Blue Jackets @ Rangers | 1/19/20

[TominNC]

I think it’s safe to say that you are content waiting around and being ok with losing. I’m not. It’s really as simple as that— you want to have unlimited patience— cool... I don’t. It’s time for results.

Talk about exaggeration. "unlimited patience"? That's ridiculous. It's not two years since the letter to the fans. They haven't even had time to clear out the old high priced players. The young guys are just breaking in, and there are more to come. Expecting more so soon is the height of impatience. Expecting more sooner is completely unrealistic. You're an example of why people said a rebuild couldn't work in NY. The fans here preaching patience aren't asking for years and years more. But it's a process that takes time. No one tears it down and rebuilds in two years.

 

[Tawnos]

So here’s the problem with your logic. Incremental progress eventually reaches less and less improvement. Meaning because a lot of these guys started with virtually no sense of what they would become it’s now safe to say we’ve scene improvement. How are you measuring improvement? Maybe this will be a career year for Tony? Maybe Brady won’t score more than 5 goals in the future? Maybe Chytil will go back to last year’s production? The point I’m getting at is, the future is uncertain and again- I think people are focusing on offensive production and saying “progress is being made.” This team still loses close games, won’t buckle down in tight spots and ranks almost last in defensive metrics. That’s not progress in my mind.

Listen we can go back and forth in this forever. What’s becoming very clear to me is I just don’t have the same standards and don’t evaluate progress the same way you do. That’s not a problem- it just makes for good conversation.

The coaches who were just fired have all gotten their teams into the Stanley Cup Finals. Their resumes speak for themselves.

Incremental progress is all you ever really get during the season itself.It feels like you want these things to happen overnight. One day, the team can’t buckle down in close games. The next day, they can. One day, they’re low ranked defensively, the next they’re high ranked defensively. That’s not how this works. The whole thing is a process. It takes time. There are ups and downs.

Most individual leaps in development happen during the off-season. DeAngelo took one of those leaps. Chytil took one of those leaps, although he needed some AHL time to manifest it. Team-wide leaps in development also only really happen in the offseason. It’s why you have a pattern of teams missing the playoffs by a lot one year. Barely missing the next year. Barely making the playoffs the year after that and getting bumped in the first round. Then contending the next year. Most of those team wide jumps happen as the team takes what it learned each year and applies it to the following one.

The coaches who were fired have Final appearances and Cups on their resume. All also did not have that on their resume at one time. Pointing out their resumes misses my fundamental point, which is that simply having that on their resume doesn’t automatically mean they’re *always* going to get the most out of their players. If that were true, all 3 would still have jobs today.

 

[JHS]

Talk about exaggeration. "unlimited patience"? That's ridiculous. It's not two years since the letter to the fans. They haven't even had time to clear out the old high priced players. The young guys are just breaking in, and there are more to come. Expecting more so soon is the height of impatience. Expecting more sooner is completely unrealistic. You're an example of why people said a rebuild couldn't work in NY. The fans here preaching patience aren't asking for years and years more. But it's a process that takes time. No one tears it down and rebuilds in two years.

I’m being patient but I’m not blind. The product on the ice is basically the same as last year with improvements( yes) but still structural issues. I mean this seriously, when are you prepared to start holding the team accountable for winning games? Next year? Two years? Five years?

 

[Tawnos]

I’m being patient but I’m not blind. The product on the ice is basically the same as last year with improvements( yes) but still structural issues. I mean this seriously, when are you prepared to start holding the team accountable for winning games? Next year? Two years? Five years?

Yes, next year. The third full season after the release of the letter was always the target to start being competitive. We’ve had last year and this year.

Is Quinn the right coach for that? Maybe, maybe not. We won’t know until the roster improves

 

[Metranger]

I bet no other team in the league has lost two games with pretty much a minute or less left in today’s NHL where teams automatically play for overtime late in a game. Especially conference games!!!
We did it twice already. Once to a 4th liner and both games at home!

The Rangers give up goals with 1 minute or less more than any other team by far I'd bet.

 

[JHS]

Incremental progress is all you ever really get during the season itself.It feels like you want these things to happen overnight. One day, the team can’t buckle down in close games. The next day, they can. One day, they’re low ranked defensively, the next they’re high ranked defensively. That’s not how this works. The whole thing is a process. It takes time. There are ups and downs.

Most individual leaps in development happen during the off-season. DeAngelo took one of those leaps. Chytil took one of those leaps, although he needed some AHL time to manifest it. Team-wide leaps in development also only really happen in the offseason. It’s why you have a pattern of teams missing the playoffs by a lot one year. Barely missing the next year. Barely making the playoffs the year after that and getting bumped in the first round. Then contending the next year. Most of those team wide jumps happen as the team takes what it learned each year and applies it to the following one.

The coaches who were fired have Final appearances and Cups on their resume. All also did not have that on their resume at one time. Pointing out their resumes misses my fundamental point, which is that simply having that on their resume doesn’t automatically mean they’re *always* going to get the most out of their players. If that were true, all 3 would still have jobs today.

I think this is fair and we are not too far off in mindsets. My timeline was a bit more accelerated I guess. I think Panarin and Trouba really made me think this team was going to take strides. I guess they have as I do think they are in a better position than last year. I’m just tougher on this team than some posters on here and while I get the pragmatic approach I also don’t believe the fan base should just settle for the poor coaching on display. I think Quinn has almost no expectations from the fan base and that’s why I sort of am compelled to remind us all that there are better options out there and we as fans can still hold the team accountable for winning games and not just give sweeping passes for poor play because they are young and inexperienced.

 

[TominNC]

I’m being patient but I’m not blind. The product on the ice is basically the same as last year with improvements( yes) but still structural issues. I mean this seriously, when are you prepared to start holding the team accountable for winning games? Next year? Two years? Five years?

Depending on the changes made this trade deadline or in the summer, then next year or at latest two years. I think there will be improvement next year, real playoff contention, but if they're breaking in two more 21 year old defensemen and another under 20 draft pick and young replacements for Kreider, etc then they may fall short next year. In two years they will have a good solid young team. Young goalies, defense and offense that have some experience. Hope that answers your question.

 

[JHS]

Yes, next year. The third full season after the release of the letter was always the target to start being competitive. We’ve had last year and this year.

Is Quinn the right coach for that? Maybe, maybe not. We won’t know until the roster improves

See so I’m just a year ahead in my mind. I’m ready to hold them accountable now. Last year I totally had a different approach, because I agreed it was impossible to expect wins. I still hated the fans rooting against the team but I could not actually expect them to win. I think 120 or so games into the rebuild is enough time for a coach to get his players to play a system that works. I don’t think 164 games will really make a huge difference but hopefully I’m wrong and this team gets it together.

 

[JHS]

Depending on the changes made this trade deadline or in the summer, then next year or at latest two years. I think there will be improvement next year, real playoff contention, but if they're breaking in two more 21 year old defensemen and another under 20 draft pick and young replacements for Kreider, etc then they may fall short next year. In two years they will have a good solid young team. Young goalies, defense and offense that have some experience. Hope that answers your question.

Yeah as I just responded to @Tawnos — I’m just a year ahead in expectations. The part about the breaking in more young guys is exactly what I was saying earlier. I’m not interested in the never ending rebuild that some organizations fall victim to. Eventually they have to try and win games. That’s why I’ve started that idea now— because as your post hints, these rebuilds can slide quickly into the “ perennial rebuilds” real quick without some solid expectations of winning.

 

[Kaapo Bustfreniere]

So many defeatists on this board. Just lose for the sake of losing, don’t hold the coach accountable for anything, GM gets passes too because well why not?

I totally understand losing is part of a rebuild but did people just forget that he Rangers signed Panarian and Trouba both designed to accelerate the rebuild? When does this loser mentality and just accept the rebuild idea go away? I think some of you will still be saying the team is rebuilding 5 years from now and just waiting for the magical day when it all comes together. That day might never come— plenty of organizations are wishing for that day too. Some for over 5 years now. Why can’t the organization take steps to accelerate the rebuild like hiring and NHL proven coach. It’s really not a hard concept. Better coaching equals more wins.

Defeatists LOL!

The youngest team in the league is inconsistent and just lost a very tight game after a very decent performance against a very hot team run by an excellent coach! A SCANDAL!!!

Fire Quinn!!!
FIRE GORTON!!!
fIrE dOLaN!!!

Hire Gallant and Chiarelli! Trade Kakko for a rental yesterday (he can't skate anyway) and go for the Cup run now!

As some have already pointed out, we don't now how good a coach Quinn really is until he has a competitive and experienced team with actual potential to make a deep play off run to work with.

And I hate to break it to you guys, but while it is in a foreseeable future, it still is likely ať least 2 years removed from now.

And I hate to break it to you guys from the fire Quinn camp. Quinn is here to stay until then at the very least, as long as he can make the youngest (and ergo least experienced) team in the league play competitive, although inconsistent, hockey and take the fight to some of the best teams in the league at the moment.

And I hate to break it to you guys, but Quinn is doing just that.

Actually, I don't hate it. I feed off of your misery and despair. Lol.

 

[TominNC]

Just a quick follow up. I've been following this team since about 1970. This is the first time they've tried this way to build a winner, so I'm determined to give it a shot. The only thing that worked previously was have a good team and trade all the prospects for Edmonton's cup team. And if Matteau shot wide and the Devils went down to score, we'd still be waiting. What they do this time may just give them a chance for multiple shots.

 

[charliemurphy]

I’m being patient but I’m not blind. The product on the ice is basically the same as last year with improvements( yes) but still structural issues. I mean this seriously, when are you prepared to start holding the team accountable for winning games? Next year? Two years? Five years?

Well, this is in all likelihood the last season Gorton will have a lot on the table to offer by the deadline... which probably means the last shot at taking advantage of such a deep draft. So, yes next year. Seriously.

 

[Maximus]

So many defeatists on this board. Just lose for the sake of losing, don’t hold the coach accountable for anything, GM gets passes too because well why not?

I totally understand losing is part of a rebuild but did people just forget that he Rangers signed Panarian and Trouba both designed to accelerate the rebuild? When does this loser mentality and just accept the rebuild idea go away? I think some of you will still be saying the team is rebuilding 5 years from now and just waiting for the magical day when it all comes together. That day might never come— plenty of organizations are wishing for that day too. Some for over 5 years now. Why can’t the organization take steps to accelerate the rebuild like hiring and NHL proven coach. It’s really not a hard concept. Better coaching equals more wins.

Dude...the letter from Gorton to the season ticket holders and to the fanbase that it was time to rebuild was at hand came out what just about 2 years ago this February.

If you compare where we were that day 2 years ago to where we are today, none of that credit goes to Quinn? You don’t see the upward trajectory of the team under Quinn?

Do you honestly think had we had Gallant or Laviolette, this team which is youngest in league would be in a playoff spot? I mean that’s what you seem to be inferring and no offense bro but that’s fairyland shit.

Other than Kravtsov not being here, Lias being stupid and getting terrible advice and Kakko not being in the kind of hockey shape he needs to be in to keep up with the pace, pretty much everything most of us could have asked for this season thus far has come to fruition.

Other than you,I don’t recall reading anyone else stating that they expected playoffs this year and that due to Bread and Troubadour coming on board, the rebuild was over...no one!

Im not saying Quinn is perfect or some of his tinkering with the lines drive me a bit batty but a lot of that credit for the trajectory of this team pointing up has quite a bit to dowith Quinn and the system he has implemented as well as having the players be accountable.

So I don’t buy at all our team would be better off with Gallant or Laviolette. Maybe you’ll change your tune next year when the Rangers will be in a much better position to make the playoffs as that will be an expectation from all of us.

For now tho, we are pretty much right where we should be and as a bonus we are a hell of a lot of fun too watch. You should try and enjoy it as well...winning lots of hockey games 2 years into a full fledged rebuild is folly!

 

[Maximus]

Depending on the changes made this trade deadline or in the summer, then next year or at latest two years. I think there will be improvement next year, real playoff contention, but if they're breaking in two more 21 year old defensemen and another under 20 draft pick and young replacements for Kreider, etc then they may fall short next year. In two years they will have a good solid young team. Young goalies, defense and offense that have some experience. Hope that answers your question.

I'm in the camp that these past two years accumulating picks and prospects was the gravy part and the beginning of the rebuild. No expectations really other than have the kids we got start to play and hopefully improve.

This past year tho we did get some unexpected luv at the draft getting Kakko. You than decide to sign both Panarin and Fox and trade for Trouba, yeah there is a bit of acceleration in the rebuild but not a chance we would be good enough to make the playoffs.

Next year tho, I personally do have expectations of making the playoffs whether it be a top 3 seed in the Metro or one of the two WC's. I'd be very dissapointed if that didn't occur tho I'm quite confident with the way things are going, we will be a playoff team next year.

I'm thinking if things continue to go according to plan, by 2022-2023, this team should ready and poised to make some long playoff runs if not begin to contend for a Cup. That would be 4-5 years from when rebuild began and I do think that is realistic expectations.

For anyone to have thought this year would be a playoff teams was no being realistic. Heck and I've said this a bunch of times, I'd just love the Rangers to hang around the playoff periphery into March, so that our young players start to get a feel of how the stress level and intensity starts to morph way up as the games become more important.

Next year is a different story tho...I'm expecting and anticipating playoffs and I think most of the fan base will as well.

 

[JHS]

Dude...the letter from Gorton to the season ticket holders and to the fanbase that it was time to rebuild was at hand came out what just about 2 years ago this February.

If you compare where we were that day 2 years ago to where we are today, none of that credit goes to Quinn? You don’t see the upward trajectory of the team under Quinn?

Do you honestly think had we had Gallant or Laviolette, this team which is youngest in league would be in a playoff spot? I mean that’s what you seem to be inferring and no offense bro but that’s fairyland ****.

Other than Kravtsov not being here, Lias being stupid and getting terrible advice and Kakko not being in the kind of hockey shape he needs to be in to keep up with the pace, pretty much everything most of us could have asked for this season thus far has come to fruition.

Other than you,I don’t recall reading anyone else stating that they expected playoffs this year and that due to Bread and Troubadour coming on board, the rebuild was over...no one!

Im not saying Quinn is perfect or some of his tinkering with the lines drive me a bit batty but a lot of that credit for the trajectory of this team pointing up has quite a bit to dowith Quinn and the system he has implemented as well as having the players be accountable.

So I don’t buy at all our team would be better off with Gallant or Laviolette. Maybe you’ll change your tune next year when the Rangers will be in a much better position to make the playoffs as that will be an expectation from all of us.

For now tho, we are pretty much right where we should be and as a bonus we are a hell of a lot of fun too watch. You should try and enjoy it as well...winning lots of hockey games 2 years into a full fledged rebuild is folly!

I think people continue to miss my point. I’m the guy saying we all should be holding the team accountable. I want wins— the more the better! What drives me crazy is the everyone gets a pass approach some on here take. To me that’s a defeatist attitude. Holding the team to high standards is the opposite.

I find it unreal that people think we can’t hold Quinn accountable until he has a team expected to make a playoff run. Those people fail to see the game then because all you need to do is watch the in game issues this team has, the lack of structures and systems that work, the lack of defensive mindset and various other basic coaching issues that I’ve highlighted time and time again. So if it takes a failed playoff run for that level of fan to turn on Quinn you will likely get your wish— it just will be way later than it should have and way more disappointment for the fan base!

I’m not going to destroy the dead horse here. I’m on record as saying Quinn is not the guy for this team. Those who don’t see what coaching brings to the table must not pay attention to teams like Columbus who have Torts( who got a this own organization to play WAY over their talent level during his run as coach) creating a winning season out of nothing! Lots of people basing a counter argue,ent on “ how do I know they’d be better with an established coach?” That argument is flawed because it’s based in a hypothetical. One thing I do know that’s based on fact is every organization that has done this rebuild in the “age of rebuilds” has gone to an experienced coach at some point. It has to happen and my argument is why wait for that moment when it very well might be now(end of this season.). That’s all I’m saying.

I think the organization agrees with those who disagree with me here. I’m afraid to say but I think they will give Quinn a chance again next season and then they won’t get some really promising coaching.

 

[ohbaby]

This coaching change talk is amusing. Good thing JD is president. He told us all to be patient. Guess some didn't get the message. We're not even at the All Star break yet. LOL

The team has made great strides defensively the last 7 games. Not allowing more than 3 goals a game with the exception of the Defending Champs. Only 2 goals against in each of the last 3 games. All due to Quinn tweaking the structure/system he has in place. This ability to adapt and tweak with what he has to work with, shows me a willingness to best use assets, this team has to produce results.

 

[Maximus]

I think people continue to miss my point. I’m the guy saying we all should be holding the team accountable. I want wins— the more the better! What drives me crazy is the everyone gets a pass approach some on here take. To me that’s a defeatist attitude. Holding the team to high standards is the opposite.

I find it unreal that people think we can’t hold Quinn accountable until he has a team expected to make a playoff run. Those people fail to see the game then because all you need to do is watch the in game issues this team has, the lack of structures and systems that work, the lack of defensive mindset and various other basic coaching issues that I’ve highlighted time and time again. So if it takes a failed playoff run for that level of fan to turn on Quinn you will likely get your wish— it just will be way later than it should have and way more disappointment for the fan base!

I’m not going to destroy the dead horse here. I’m on record as saying Quinn is not the guy for this team. Those who don’t see what coaching brings to the table must not pay attention to teams like Columbus who have Torts( who got a this own organization to play WAY over their talent level during his run as coach) creating a winning season out of nothing! Lots of people basing a counter argue,ent on “ how do I know they’d be better with an established coach?” That argument is flawed because it’s based in a hypothetical. One thing I do know that’s based on fact is every organization that has done this rebuild in the “age of rebuilds” has gone to an experienced coach at some point. It has to happen and my argument is why wait for that moment when it very well might be now(end of this season.). That’s all I’m saying.

I think the organization agrees with those who disagree with
me here. I’m afraid to say but I think they will give Quinn a chance again next season and then they won’t get some really promising coaching.

Yeah your line of thinking is certainly in the minority on this one but hey that's why we have forums like this. I think patience is the key here and I'm supremely confident that by this time next year, you'll probably have a different view on Quinn and the team as a whole....we shalt see won't we?

 

[egelband]

Fox, DeAngelo, Lindgren

Chytil too. For sure.

 

[egelband]

The team should have thrown a bag of money at her once she fixed Boyle's skating. Having someone like that on staff would be great, now she's with the Leafs

I kind of thought the whole Barb Underhill thing was a bit of a joke. Like, I’m sure she helped Boyle. And I’m sure she’s helpful in general. But do we really think she’s doing revolutionary things?

 

[JHS]

Yeah your line of thinking is certainly in the minority on this one but hey that's why we have forums like this. I think patience is the key here and I'm supremely confident that by this time next year, you'll probably have a different view on Quinn and the team as a whole....we shalt see won't we?

Yeah man— I appreciate the spirited debate for sure! I have very high hopes for this team. I see tremendous talent and really incredible potential in a lot of the youth. It’s exciting! That’s why I want them being taught by the absolute best coaching the organization can give to them. By far the best attribute Quinn has as a coach is his willingness to hold the guys accountable— he’s not always fair about it but he’s willing to call them out.

 

[egelband]

I’m being patient but I’m not blind. The product on the ice is basically the same as last year with improvements( yes) but still structural issues. I mean this seriously, when are you prepared to start holding the team accountable for winning games? Next year? Two years? Five years?

Next year seems reasonable. I’m fine with another year of stockpiling.

 

[Deleted member 23124]

Next year seems reasonable. I’m fine with another year of stockpiling.

Agreed....I think I'm one of the minority who did not see this year's team as a playoff contender. Naturally, I did not take into account Bettman's "parody plan" (purposely did not use "parity"). I also think we're going to see a number of player changes as well.