Post-Game Talk: Blue Jackets @ Rangers | 1/19/20

[Leonardo87]

Reading this thread is more painful than the loss.

Reading this forum after a loss is actually entertaining and think that thread on the trade forum which is now locked, takes the cake, or bread? Lol.

Can you imagine if this team was in a Detroit situation. Damn.

 

[JHS]

Sorry man and no offense but firing Quinn is ridiculous and it obviously won't happen at least at this point in time. Your not the only one who has publicly stated this and I've yet to hear a good reason why he should be gone. Now if we miss the playoffs next year, that's an entirely different conversation but for now, Quinn is doing what he was hired to do.

Is the team not performing pretty much exactly as was expected before the season? Did anyone seriously think we were a playoff team? Other than Lias are our kids not performing as expected? Even tho Kakko hasn't done as well as we hoped, does anyone doubt that with an intense offseason training regiman that will improve his skating and his stamina, that he won't be much more of a factor next season?

Is our goaltending not primed to be pretty much elite for the next decade with Shesty/Georgie after the King retires?

Do we not have trade chips like Kreider and possibly even Georgie to not add even more pieces? Do we not have as exciting a team that we've ever had in recent memory?

So what exactly hasn't Quinn done that makes him expendable and that a Gallant or Laviollette would do better? I'm serious, I don't get some of the hate for Quinn...I really don't. Maybe I'm just dense but I think he's done a good job and has done what he was hired to do which was to help develop our young pups and keep the team moving in an upwards trajectory as we go thru the final stages of the rebuild.

To me, Quinn has done the job he was hired to do and in no way should the thought of him being fired be even considered. I have a strong hunch JD and Gorton agree with this line of thinking...lol

Ive been very anti-Quinn basically since the hire but I do agree that he won’t be fired before the end of the season and probably not even then— and that’s exactly the problem. With way better coaching options out there, this absurd notion that Quinn is doing what he was hired to do is holding this organization back. This is about WINNING NHL. Hockey games. It’s that simple. Giving up 40 plus shots often, being last in most defensive metrics, refusing to tighten up in close games, having no recognizable defensive structure, near constant line juggling, mind numbing decisions with player usage, altering the power play during stretches it’s working, etc... are just the most obvious areas of concern. We also have his stubbornness, warring with officials and other traits that I don’t like but maybe others do. The biggest concern I have is what are these young guys learning right now? I believe they are learning losing ways. Compare that to Torts who has that Columbus team winning games despite being decimated by injuries. He has instilled a defense first technique, an obvious forecheck system( and I don’t watch many Columbus games but being at the game last night I could tell 3 shifts in exactly what he was doing as compared to Quinn’s system that over a year and a half in the best I can tell the system is one man hard on the puck, second forward pressure the lane, third forward high) and it’s clear what coaching does. Imagine Quinn coaching Columbus. You’d get a lot of “ well we just need more from these guys,” after loses type press conferences.

Coaching in the NHL matters. If the Rangers could get an established NHL coach I know the results would be better! My concern is this town runs established guys out of here at an alarming rate and may have burnt that bridge with the next coaching hire.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Fox, DeAngelo, Lindgren

Chytil, Lemieux.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Reading this forum after a loss is actually entertaining and think that thread on the trade forum which is now locked, takes the cake, or bread? Lol.

Can you imagine if this team was in a Detroit situation. Damn.

Apparently, we'd be there if not for Panarin.

 

[Leonardo87]

Apparently, we'd be there if not for Panarin.

I’d say we’d certainly be worse but not Detroit bad. If we didn’t have Panarin and Mika then yeah maybe.

 

[will1066]

 

[Tawnos]

Ive been very anti-Quinn basically since the hire

Frankly, if this is the case, none of your opinions on what's going on now should be taken seriously by the rest of us.

 

[Tawnos]

Chytil, Lemieux.

Throw Georgiev into that mix too. It's not like Zibanejad and Strome are old either. We've seen them take steps forward. "Young players" isn't limited to children.

Plus, Pionk began this season a better player than he began last season. While the Jets coaching staff deserves credit for that, so does Quinn. Off-seasons are a time to internalize what your coach was telling you all year that you might have struggled with.

There's obviously the thing with Andersson. Howden doesn't seem to be progressing. It's way too early to tell with Kakko whether or not the wall is just an 18 year old thing or an actual problem with his development.

There are more successes so far than failures.

 

[JHS]

Frankly, if this is the case, none of your opinions on what's going on now should be taken seriously by the rest of us.

hmmm interesting. So only people who wanted Quinn can now say they don't want Quinn? That's an interesting test of logic. So because I foresaw all the issues that have come to play with hiring an unproven NHL coach to run a rebuild, my opinion now is somehow invalid? I'm really eager to read this explanation.

 

[Fitzy]

Throw Georgiev into that mix too. It's not like Zibanejad and Strome are old either. We've seen them take steps forward. "Young players" isn't limited to children.

Plus, Pionk began this season a better player than he began last season. While the Jets coaching staff deserves credit for that, so does Quinn. Off-seasons are a time to internalize what your coach was telling you all year that you might have struggled with.

There's obviously the thing with Andersson. Howden doesn't seem to be progressing. It's way too early to tell with Kakko whether or not the wall is just an 18 year old thing or an actual problem with his development.

There are more successes so far than failures.

Yep. The problem is that the biggest disappointments so far (Andersson, Kravtsov, Kakko) have all been at the forward position.

I'm glad Kravtsov is improving and of course Kakko will turn out to be a good player- it's a matter of just how good. But if we were to look at the halfway performance of these guys on September 1st, people would be really concerned.

Got around to watching the highlights...

1) Doesn't look like Strome was a hundred percent to blame on the GWG to me. Blueliners too passive on a 3 on 2- an inside shot is acceptable but they gave him an unchecked one between the circles and that's no good.

2) Looked like another steady statistical performance from Shesty.

3) Maybe I've been listening to the Corsi guys too much, but I'm actually not upset when we lose a close game that we outshot the competition and played them, by all accounts, relatively evenly. AND they got no PP chances.

4) I'd like to get Lemeiux back on the left wing of that third line.

 

[haveandare]

Definitely an ugly and frustrating loss. I don’t know how anyone can blame Quinn, Trouba or whoever else.

They played a solid game against a good opponent. Strome absolutely blew it in the last minute. If he doesn’t make that ridiculous lazy change, the game goes to OT and we roll out Panarin, DeAngelo and a warm body 3v3 against an untested goalie and likely win.

 

[Kaapo Cabana]

f***ing brutal loss.

sleepwalking out there for sure.

maybe an emotional letdown after the intensity of our last 2

 

[Good Intentions]

Yep. The problem is that the biggest disappointments so far (Andersson, Kravtsov, Kakko) have all been at the forward position.

Stopped reading here as this take is just absurd.

Your list is Lias Andersson, period.

Kravtsov would be a Top 5 pick in a redraft, one of the risers over the past 16 months.
Kakko is 18 years old and learning what life is like 8 months removed from a small town in Finland.

What are we talking about here???

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I'm don't really have an issue with folks being disappointed in how Kakko has played this season.

I've made the argument that yes he's 18 and not many people break into the league at that age successfully but he was projected to at least be in the conversation for the Calder

So I get it. I don't think it's a big deal in the grand scheme of things, but I get it

 

[Tawnos]

hmmm interesting. So only people who wanted Quinn can now say they don't want Quinn? That's an interesting test of logic. So because I foresaw all the issues that have come to play with hiring an unproven NHL coach to run a rebuild, my opinion now is somehow invalid? I'm really eager to read this explanation.

That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that your pre-conceived notions of him are influencing your opinions today.

I'm not saying Quinn has been perfect, but 90% of this teams problems comes from the quality and inexperience of the lineup. You see a lack of structure. I see a forward group that has 2 solid defensive players among 13. 4 of those 11 who aren't solid defensively are still learning and might be solid defensively in the future. I see a group of D with 2 rookies, one young player who is lacking in the D zone, and 1 older player who we all know has had the game pass him by. People do this all the time though... mistake poor quality play for poor coaching.

What Quinn was brought here to do, in the near-term, was develop young players. Not win hockey games, as you seem to think. As has been pointed out, the majority of our young players who have gotten a lot of games in the NHL taken significant steps forward after being coached by him. Not unbrokenly, because that's not how development works, but steps forward. Kids with steps forward: Chytil, Lemieux, Georgiev, Fox, Lindgren, DeAngelo. Young players who regressed: Andersson. Young players who took two steps forward and two steps back: Buchnevich. Young players who haven't progressed or regressed: Howden, Hajek. Players who haven't had enough time or are still too young to judge: Gettinger.

If this was a W/L record, he'd be 6W-1L-4T, with plenty of time for those 4 ties to become wins (or losses).

Is he the right guy for when this team is competitive? I don't know the answer to that. It's going to take us having a competitive roster for me to start to form an opinion. For what he's supposed to be doing right now, he's doing a good job.

 

[Fitzy]

Stopped reading here as this take is just absurd.

Your list is Lias Andersson, period.

Kravtsov would be a Top 5 pick in a redraft, one of the risers over the past 16 months.
Kakko is 18 years old and learning what life is like 8 months removed from a small town in Finland.

What are we talking about here???

I characterize a disappointment as getting less than we expected. I'm not characterizing either K as a bust- I'm saying that they have done less than what the fanbase (And, frankly, possibly management) have expected.

Kravtsov wasted almost half a season bouncing back and forth across the atlantic ocean.

Kakko has 6 even strength points in 43 games. That's the same figure as Brendan Smith and Marc Staal. Howden has twice as many. Even with my measured expectations for the kid, that's disappointing.

 

[Fitzy]

I'm don't really have an issue with folks being disappointed in how Kakko has played this season.

I've made the argument that yes he's 18 and not many people break into the league at that age successfully but he was projected to at least be in the conversation for the Calder

So I get it. I don't think it's a big deal in the grand scheme of things, but I get it

I in no way expected Calder considerations. I just has hoped that he could pot 30-40 points and be able to keep up with the play.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I in no way expected Calder considerations. I just has hoped that he could pot 30-40 points and be able to keep up with the play.

Initially I had hoped he would be in the conversation but obviously my expectations changed based on how he was playing

But again I don't think how he's playing is all that disconcerting at this point. I'm hoping he takes a Svechnikov-esque step forward next year

 

[Tawnos]

Yep. The problem is that the biggest disappointments so far (Andersson, Kravtsov, Kakko) have all been at the forward position.

I'm glad Kravtsov is improving and of course Kakko will turn out to be a good player- it's a matter of just how good. But if we were to look at the halfway performance of these guys on September 1st, people would be really concerned.

I think that's more of a problem with considering Kakko and Kravtsov to be disappointments in the broader sense. I think it's fine to be disappointed in this season specifically for Kakko to this point, but this isn't a short-term proposition. So in a broader sense, which is what matters in a rebuild, it's much too early to be disappointed in him.

Even if you were disappointed in Kravtsov, the guy hasn't played an NHL game yet. While some of the communication in training camp might have been a part of the problem that saw him go back to Russia, in the broader sense, you can't blame Quinn for a player being a disappointment when he hasn't really worked much with him.

This is a season long process, and pinning blame on Quinn for two weeks of pre-season in Kravtsov's case or half a season in Kakko's case doesn't make much sense. The story isn't finished.

 

[Fitzy]

Initially I had hoped he would be in the conversation but obviously my expectations changed based on how he was playing

But again I don't think how he's playing is all that disconcerting at this point. I'm hoping he takes a Svechnikov-esque step forward next year

It would be nice for the Rangers to hire a skating coach for him this summer like they did with Brian Boyle. Made a whole world of difference.

 

[will1066]

It would be nice for the Rangers to hire a skating coach for him this summer like they did with Brian Boyle. Made a whole world of difference.

The funny aspect of this is Barb Underhill automatically pops to mind whenever skating lessons are suggested. There are other skating experts out there, I'm sure. For example, what is Apolo Ohno doing these days?

 

[offdacrossbar]

lots of over reactions here. these guys actually played a very sound game. cbus has been rolling lately

dumb change cost us.

i dont see the sky falling. shitty way to lose a game but prince igor payed well again and deserved better.

im sorry but fast isnt a top line guy and buchnevich is a black hole

marc staal is forever. 19 more minutes of torture last night.

dumb stat of the night. kreider kakko and buchnevich total shots on goal = ZERO. ball game right there folks. right now, those 3 together have the hockey iq of an avocado.

fyi igor's pretty good.

2.68/ .929

 

[TominNC]

Ive been very anti-Quinn basically since the hire but I do agree that he won’t be fired before the end of the season and probably not even then— and that’s exactly the problem. With way better coaching options out there, this absurd notion that Quinn is doing what he was hired to do is holding this organization back. This is about WINNING NHL. Hockey games. It’s that simple. Giving up 40 plus shots often, being last in most defensive metrics, refusing to tighten up in close games, having no recognizable defensive structure, near constant line juggling, mind numbing decisions with player usage, altering the power play during stretches it’s working, etc... are just the most obvious areas of concern. We also have his stubbornness, warring with officials and other traits that I don’t like but maybe others do. The biggest concern I have is what are these young guys learning right now? I believe they are learning losing ways. Compare that to Torts who has that Columbus team winning games despite being decimated by injuries. He has instilled a defense first technique, an obvious forecheck system( and I don’t watch many Columbus games but being at the game last night I could tell 3 shifts in exactly what he was doing as compared to Quinn’s system that over a year and a half in the best I can tell the system is one man hard on the puck, second forward pressure the lane, third forward high) and it’s clear what coaching does. Imagine Quinn coaching Columbus. You’d get a lot of “ well we just need more from these guys,” after loses type press conferences.

Coaching in the NHL matters. If the Rangers could get an established NHL coach I know the results would be better! My concern is this town runs established guys out of here at an alarming rate and may have burnt that bridge with the next coaching hire.

A lot of this is simply not true. The D has been improving, the lines have stablized, the young players are getting better. Most people bought into a rebuild, but way too many are proving not to have the patience. There is a lot of extreme youth in this line-up. It's NHL fact over the years thaat D takes longer than forwards to develop. We're actually lucky to have a couple guy like Fox and Lindgren showing so much already. And we're going to have MORE youg D coming. Yes this team needs to fill in more. That's on the GM and that will be happening. There's still some of the old guard that needs to go first. It's a process. And it doesn't happen overnight. I'm NOT saying there haven't been mistakes, but that's part of the rebuild process. Not everything goes according to plan. Patience. Every loss isn't the end of the world.

 

[leetch99]

Quinn's career as an NHL head coach is swirling the bowl...

Gerard Gallant at the local rink here yesterday watching a tier two junior club he used to coach and his ph rang all day .....lots of calls whether that means anything or not . Quinn might not want to have this happen very often .

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

The funny aspect of this is Barb Underhill automatically pops to mind whenever skating lessons are suggested. There are other skating experts out there, I'm sure. For example, what is Apolo Ohno doing these days?

The team should have thrown a bag of money at her once she fixed Boyle's skating. Having someone like that on staff would be great, now she's with the Leafs