Blow this team up already!

[TonsofPuppies]

I've been screaming for ages that the only way forward for the organization is a complete gutting from top to bottom. As someone mentioned in the GDT, this goes far beyond any individual players or off ice personnel. There is a cultural rot within this organization that has been allowed to fester away for more than a decade and until it is removed, we will continue to spin our tires fruitlessly.

1. The management is a joke. The "Shanaplan" has been an obvious abject failure for literally years, yet this clown still has a job. This ties into the cultural rot I spoke of in my opening statement. There is no accountability or standards / expectations in this organization. It starts from the top and trickles all the way down to the players on the ice. Year after year after year, Shanahan continues to roll it back with the same core that has proven endlessly that they cannot get the job done. Shanahan can't make tough decisions for the betterment of the team and must be the first domino to fall.

2. Sheldon Keefe is a terrible coach. I don't even need to dig too far into this one, so I'll just list a few obvious points:

- The team is rarely prepared to "start on time" as Babs used to say and often gives up goals in the first minute / on the first shot of the game. This has been an issue for literally years.
- The special teams always fall to shit around 3/4 of the way through the season and few, if any changes are made to rectify the issues before the playoffs. Making adjustments in general, seems to be his kryptonite.
- The Leafs, in the playoffs, have an abysmal home record under Keefe, largely due to his galaxy brained line matching.
- He routinely retracts perfectly valid criticisms of his team in order to protect the feelings of his "stars".
- He got outcoached by DOMINIQUE DUCHARME in a playoff series. 'nuff said.

3. The star forwards suck. Matthews and Marner especially stand out here. Yes, they can put up some crazy numbers during the regular season, but these guys are not playoff performers. Time and time again they have proven to be incapable of rising to the challenge and delivering in big moments, the way pretty much all other "superstar" caliber players do. This lack of drive and ability to rise the occasion is made all the worse by the fact that these guys are paid higher than all of their comparables, lessoning the team's ability to surround them with a good supporting cast, thus taking some of the pressure off.

4. The depth forwards suck. This ties into my previous point regarding our star players being overpaid. With less money to go around, the Leafs are forced to settle for bargain bin solutions to fill out their roster. While there are a few decent depth pieces like Nick Robertson and Max Demi, the roster is littered with players that are not NHL caliber on any serious NHL roster - Pontus Holmberg, David Kampf, Ryan Reaves, Connor Dewar, Noah Gregor, etc.

5. The defence is atrocious. While Simon Benoit has been an overall nice surprise this year and Jake McCabe has his moments, the defence, by and large, is nowhere close to cup contending status. It's old, it's slow and the lack of right shots forces us to play players in positions they are not suited to. Brodie is a train wreck, Gio is 300 years old, Rielly is decent, but nowhere near an "elite" #1, as he would need to be to prop up the rest of the group. At least he shows up in the playoffs, but his lack of a threatening point shot really renders the power play predictable and easy to neutralize. Timmins is not NHL caliber and I'm losing my patience with the soft play of Liljegren.

6. The goaltending is a nonstarter. Ilya Samsonov is a mental midget that even the Caps gave up on ages ago. If Samsonov is your #1 for the playoffs, you might as well forfeit before Game 1. Joseph Woll has shown flashes of being competent, but his troubling injury history leave me doubtful that he could ever be a longterm solution in net. Martin Jones and Matt Murray are not NHL goalies.

TL;DR: This team has so many holes and glaring issues. This isn't going to be as simple a fix as trading a member of the core or firing the coach. This entire roster needs to be gutted and rebuilt from the ground up. I'm sick and tired of watching the same old song and dance every single year. Blow this shit up already.

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[BertCorbeau]

Fire Keefe

 

[Jojalu]

I've been screaming for ages that the only way forward for the organization is a complete gutting from top to bottom. As someone mentioned in the GDT, this goes far beyond any individual players or off ice personnel. There is a cultural rot within this organization that has been allowed to fester away for more than a decade and until it is removed, we will continue to spin our tires fruitlessly.

1. The management is a joke. The "Shanaplan" has been an obvious abject failure for literally years, yet this clown still has a job. This ties into the cultural rot I spoke of in my opening statement. There is no accountability or standards / expectations in this organization. It starts from the top and trickles all the way down to the players on the ice. Year after year after year, Shanahan continues to roll it back with the same core that has proven endlessly that they cannot get the job done. Shanahan can't make tough decisions for the betterment of the team and must be the first domino to fall.

2. Sheldon Keefe is a terrible coach. I don't even need to dig too far into this one, so I'll just list a few obvious points:

- The team is rarely prepared to "start on time" as Babs used to say and often gives up goals in the first minute / on the first shot of the game. This has been an issue for literally years.
- The special teams always fall to shit around 3/4 of the way through the season and few, if any changes are made to rectify the issues before the playoffs. Making adjustments in general, seems to be his kryptonite.
- The Leafs, in the playoffs, have an abysmal home record under Keefe, largely due to his galaxy brained line matching.
- He routinely retracts perfectly valid criticisms of his team in order to protect the feelings of his "stars".
- He got outcoached by DOMINIQUE DUCHARME in a playoff series. 'nuff said.

3. The star forwards suck. Matthews and Marner especially stand out here. Yes, they can put up some crazy numbers during the regular season, but these guys are not playoff performers. Time and time again they have proven to be incapable of rising to the challenge and delivering in big moments, the way pretty much all other "superstar" caliber players do. This lack of drive and ability to rise the occasion is made all the worse by the fact that these guys are paid higher than all of their comparables, lessoning the team's ability to surround them with a good supporting cast, thus taking some of the pressure off.

4. The depth forwards suck. This ties into my previous point regarding our star players being overpaid. With less money to go around, the Leafs are forced to settle for bargain bin solutions to fill out their roster. While there are a few decent depth pieces like Nick Robertson and Max Demi, the roster is littered with players that are not NHL caliber on any serious NHL roster - Pontus Holmberg, David Kampf, Ryan Reaves, Connor Dewar, Noah Gregor, etc.

5. The defence is atrocious. While Simon Benoit has been an overall nice surprise this year and Jake McCabe has his moments, the defence, by and large, is nowhere close to cup contending status. It's old, it's slow and the lack of right shots forces us to play players in positions they are not suited to. Brodie is a train wreck, Gio is 300 years old, Rielly is decent, but nowhere near an "elite" #1, as he would need to be to prop up the rest of the group. At least he shows up in the playoffs, but his lack of a threatening point shot really renders the power play predictable and easy to neutralize. Timmins is not NHL caliber and I'm losing my patience with the soft play of Liljegren.

6. The goaltending is a nonstarter. Ilya Samsonov is a mental midget that even the Caps gave up on ages ago. If Samsonov is your #1 for the playoffs, you might as well forfeit before Game 1. Joseph Woll has shown flashes of being competent, but his troubling injury history leave me doubtful that he could ever be a longterm solution in net. Martin Jones and Matt Murray are not NHL goalies.

TL;DR: This team has so many holes and glaring issues. This isn't going to be as simple a fix as trading a member of the core or firing the coach. This entire roster needs to be gutted and rebuilt from the ground up. I'm sick and tired of watching the same old song and dance every single year. Blow this shit up already.

You make some valid points but we should probably wait until they are eliminated

 

[TonsofPuppies]

You make some valid points but we should probably wait until they are eliminated

The last 7+ years are more than enough. This has been overdue for literally years.

 

[Eternal Leaf]

Vegas would have sent two of these guys packing a long time ago.

 

[wingman75]

Vegas would have sent two of these guys packing a long time ago.

And the coach... and the GM would not have been here as long as he was either.

Other organizations strive for greatness, we strive for fairness.

 

[sxvnert]

Its more likely the leafs will try to build the next young core while marner, matthews and nylander are still here (like dallas).

 

[MSZ]

Vegas would have sent two of these guys packing a long time ago.

They usually don't wait. If you sucked for a single season you're gone immediately right after the final game.

 

[Lightsol]

You guys really really want to go back to the days where our leading scorer was a 50 point guy and we were out of the playoffs by December, don't you? And then we'd find out we're drafting 7th, so more time in hockey purgatory hoping to hit on the next overlooked surprise...

 

[TMLegend]

I'd like to give them one final shot under a new coach next year, and besides we kinda have to give the structure of the contracts that have been given out. I'd definitely be open to tearing it down after that if they fail miserably under yet another coach though.

 

[arso40]

I've been screaming for ages that the only way forward for the organization is a complete gutting from top to bottom. As someone mentioned in the GDT, this goes far beyond any individual players or off ice personnel. There is a cultural rot within this organization that has been allowed to fester away for more than a decade and until it is removed, we will continue to spin our tires fruitlessly.

1. The management is a joke. The "Shanaplan" has been an obvious abject failure for literally years, yet this clown still has a job. This ties into the cultural rot I spoke of in my opening statement. There is no accountability or standards / expectations in this organization. It starts from the top and trickles all the way down to the players on the ice. Year after year after year, Shanahan continues to roll it back with the same core that has proven endlessly that they cannot get the job done. Shanahan can't make tough decisions for the betterment of the team and must be the first domino to fall.

2. Sheldon Keefe is a terrible coach. I don't even need to dig too far into this one, so I'll just list a few obvious points:

- The team is rarely prepared to "start on time" as Babs used to say and often gives up goals in the first minute / on the first shot of the game. This has been an issue for literally years.
- The special teams always fall to shit around 3/4 of the way through the season and few, if any changes are made to rectify the issues before the playoffs. Making adjustments in general, seems to be his kryptonite.
- The Leafs, in the playoffs, have an abysmal home record under Keefe, largely due to his galaxy brained line matching.
- He routinely retracts perfectly valid criticisms of his team in order to protect the feelings of his "stars".
- He got outcoached by DOMINIQUE DUCHARME in a playoff series. 'nuff said.

3. The star forwards suck. Matthews and Marner especially stand out here. Yes, they can put up some crazy numbers during the regular season, but these guys are not playoff performers. Time and time again they have proven to be incapable of rising to the challenge and delivering in big moments, the way pretty much all other "superstar" caliber players do. This lack of drive and ability to rise the occasion is made all the worse by the fact that these guys are paid higher than all of their comparables, lessoning the team's ability to surround them with a good supporting cast, thus taking some of the pressure off.

4. The depth forwards suck. This ties into my previous point regarding our star players being overpaid. With less money to go around, the Leafs are forced to settle for bargain bin solutions to fill out their roster. While there are a few decent depth pieces like Nick Robertson and Max Demi, the roster is littered with players that are not NHL caliber on any serious NHL roster - Pontus Holmberg, David Kampf, Ryan Reaves, Connor Dewar, Noah Gregor, etc.

5. The defence is atrocious. While Simon Benoit has been an overall nice surprise this year and Jake McCabe has his moments, the defence, by and large, is nowhere close to cup contending status. It's old, it's slow and the lack of right shots forces us to play players in positions they are not suited to. Brodie is a train wreck, Gio is 300 years old, Rielly is decent, but nowhere near an "elite" #1, as he would need to be to prop up the rest of the group. At least he shows up in the playoffs, but his lack of a threatening point shot really renders the power play predictable and easy to neutralize. Timmins is not NHL caliber and I'm losing my patience with the soft play of Liljegren.

6. The goaltending is a nonstarter. Ilya Samsonov is a mental midget that even the Caps gave up on ages ago. If Samsonov is your #1 for the playoffs, you might as well forfeit before Game 1. Joseph Woll has shown flashes of being competent, but his troubling injury history leave me doubtful that he could ever be a longterm solution in net. Martin Jones and Matt Murray are not NHL goalies.

TL;DR: This team has so many holes and glaring issues. This isn't going to be as simple a fix as trading a member of the core or firing the coach. This entire roster needs to be gutted and rebuilt from the ground up. I'm sick and tired of watching the same old song and dance every single year. Blow this shit up already.

I thought lily had a decent game and was our best defender today so I'm a bit confused

 

[RomanianLeafs]

Was this thread your dream all day? I bet u couldnt wait to post this..how about wait until we are eliminated

 

[DitchMarner]

I don't think it makes sense to trade a guy like Matthews. How likely is it TOR gets a talent that is on par or better if they move on from him? Keep him and do what it takes to build a winning product around him.

With that said, I want to see this guy go on one of his scoring hot streaks in the playoffs and just take over like he has at times in the regular season. People can bring up all kinds of factors, but the man is a 69 goal scorer. It's time for him to have a series like Ovechkin had in 2009 versus PIT. If the team won't help you, f*** it. Impose dominance.

 

[Apex Predator]

You guys really really want to go back to the days where our leading scorer was a 50 point guy and we were out of the playoffs by December, don't you? And then we'd find out we're drafting 7th, so more time in hockey purgatory hoping to hit on the next overlooked surprise...

Trading a core player doesn’t mean they are going back to having a leading scorer of 50 points.

 

[authentic]

I don't think it makes sense to trade a guy like Matthews. How likely is it TOR gets a talent that is on par or better if they move on from him? Keep him and do what it takes to build a winning product around him.

With that said, I want to see this guy go on one of his scoring hot streaks in the playoffs and just take over like he has at times in the regular season. People can bring up all kinds of factors, but the man is a 69 goal scorer. It's time for him to have a series like Ovechkin had in 2009 versus PIT. If the team won't help you, f*** it. Impose dominance.

Anyone saying we should trade Matthews is just begging not to be taken seriously

 

[Lightsol]

I'd like to give them one final shot under a new coach next year, and besides we kinda have to give the structure of the contracts that have been given out. I'd definitely be open to tearing it down after that if they fail miserably under yet another coach though.

That's my opinion as well. Now that Nylander is locked in, I think the only solution is to let Tavares' contract expire and use his salary to shore up the team. And I'd like to see these three guys (Matthews, Marner and Nylander) with an experienced coach, preferably a defensive coach like Gallant, who isn't spending every moment trying to mind-f*** his own players to assert some sort of dominance.

This core has had two coaches in the NHL. One was an asshole who got fired less than a week after being hired because he HAD to show his dominance over the players, and the other was a newbie who was expected to learn on the job and never has. How about we get a defensive coach who is willing to put some boots to asses when the players hotdog it like they do periodically under the current moron?

 

[Eternal Leaf]

You guys really really want to go back to the days where our leading scorer was a 50 point guy and we were out of the playoffs by December, don't you? And then we'd find out we're drafting 7th, so more time in hockey purgatory hoping to hit on the next overlooked surprise...

Changing the core doesn't mean the team will be tanking.

Is the goal to get destroyed in different ways for the next 10 years by running the same core?

 

[Lightsol]

Changing the core doesn't mean the team will be tanking.

Is the goal to get destroyed in different ways for the next 10 years by running the same core?

We have two choices at this point; keep the core, or let Marner walk for nothing. The latter doesn't seem like a great use of resources. Period.

If there's one thing that really scares me, it's that to try and shake up the core the Leafs put themselves in a position where the player they're relying on for pretty much all of their offense is the guy who just showed he only cares when his paycheck is at stake... And I have a sneaky suspicion that Nylander at 35 is going to look a lot worse than he does right now.

 

[The Masters]

Vegas would have sent two of these guys packing a long time ago.

so true those guys dont. fk around

 

[PROUD PAPA]

We have two choices at this point; keep the core, or let Marner walk for nothing. The latter doesn't seem like a great use of resources. Period.

If there's one thing that really scares me, it's that to try and shake up the core the Leafs put themselves in a position where the player they're relying on for pretty much all of their offense is the guy who just showed he only cares when his paycheck is at stake... And I have a sneaky suspicion that Nylander at 35 is going to look a lot worse than he does right now.

Honest question. What do they do that makes believe they’ll take us to the top one day?

 

[Stephen]

You guys really really want to go back to the days where our leading scorer was a 50 point guy and we were out of the playoffs by December, don't you? And then we'd find out we're drafting 7th, so more time in hockey purgatory hoping to hit on the next overlooked surprise...

Why is the alternative to this automatically the JFJ days?

 

[Lightsol]

Honest question. What do they do that makes believe they’ll take us to the top one day?

Nothing. But I've also seen the Leafs dump players concluding they "don't have it" only for them to dominate elsewhere, while the Leafs end up with the short end of the stick. And with the situation they're in, it could EASILY turn into the situation I described, where the only good player they have left is an aging Nylander on an overpaid contract literally playing as a mercenary, but because of him the Leafs end up in the same situation they did in the Burke era; not bad enough to finish low, but nowhere near a playoff team.

 

[Eternal Leaf]

We have two choices at this point; keep the core, or let Marner walk for nothing. The latter doesn't seem like a great use of resources. Period.

If there's one thing that really scares me, it's that to try and shake up the core the Leafs put themselves in a position where the player they're relying on for pretty much all of their offense is the guy who just showed he only cares when his paycheck is at stake... And I have a sneaky suspicion that Nylander at 35 is going to look a lot worse than he does right now.

Your fear is fair because each player is good on paper including Marner. At least in the regular season. But the sum of these parts is utterly useless when it matters.

They will need to change it up and if that means Marner then it's him. Addition by subtraction while using the cap space to round out the team a bit more. In the end, I think they will toss next season (maybe grab a goalie + supplementary changes) and wait for Tavares' contract to run out.

If they couldn't remove Willy, they won't remove Marner either.

 

[Lightsol]

Why is the alternative to this automatically the JFJ days?

Because the Leafs have a consistent pattern they fall into, and the next stage after this is "rip team apart, turn into terrible team that can't make playoffs but can't bottom out".

 

[DuklaNation]

The 1st step in a rebuild is to acknowledge a few good scouts can have a huge positive impact on the team's future. Start there.