Confirmed with Link: Bjorkstrand to Seattle for 2023 3rd & 4th round picks

[CBJx614]

I literally had tix for opening night bought for me before singles went on sale to come home for it...

(Also going to Boston, Toronto, Dallas, Montreal if anyone is planning road trips...will have 7 left to see them all)

i made sure to get both the opener and reg season finale!

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

The fan in question (If its the same guy I saw, I follow him for his analytic stuff but he gets to be a lot sometimes) was also raging about the Laine signing and then pointed out how few players were posting about the Laine signing (even though Werenski and Sillinger did I believe).

I thought about responding and saying nobody has said goodbye to Bjork online either, so that must mean everyone was happy to see him go. But I didn't. But if he looks through these forums and reads this, hi

Well if we want to go all Hockey Qanon and read into everything, PLD was in Bjorkstrand's wedding so he was clearly traded for that reason and he's mad he didn't get traded to Montreal so he could be there waiting for PLD to arrive there.

 

[ViD]

+/- mentioned; post rejected as unhelpful noise.

Seriously. If I have to start bullying people to get them to shut up about that trash non-stat, I'll do it. It's noise. It's meaningless garbage. It tells nothing useful. You might as well be evaluating players based on whether or not they tuck their jersey.

Well, one thing is when the entire team is really bad and every player is in double digit minus, but Bjork was by far the worst in the team and nearly the worst in the league. That brings a valid question of how that happened.

 

[AirSox]

I was surprised to see PLD at Oliver's wedding, it's not like he quit on the team or anything.

I'm assuming they made up.

 

[KJ Dangler]

Except he’s not close to as good as Laine

 

[Viqsi]

And that is where I disagree. Yes, we are going to lose any trade but in every other scenario we would have had to add more.

In this scenario, we did lose Bjorkstrand but we got 2 draft picks in return. I don't think 3rd and 4th round picks are trivial. Tarasov was a 3rd rounder. Elvis was a 3rd rounder. Bjorkstrand was 3rd rounder. Korpisalo was a 3rd rounder. Voronkov was a 4th rounder. Bemstrom was a 4th rounder. There is a real strong case Jarmo historically drafts better in those rounds than the 1st and 2nd rounds.

This is a bigger return than any other option I can imagine would possibly have.

The necessary return is cap space. Going for more is throwing good assets after bad. That's the point.

And given what we gave up? 3rd and 4th round picks are trivial. Would you like me to trot out the list of 3rd and 4th round picks we've made that didn't make it? It's a considerably longer list.

I think Bjorkstrand is a fine player but I also don't think the sky is falling because he is no longer on this team.

There's a difference between "sky is falling" and "this was the wrong move."

But I also understand the need to just have something to be angry about until camp opens and we can start seeing results on the ice.

I would advise against going there. And I personally resent the accusation.

* * *​

Well, one thing is when the entire team is really bad and every player is in double digit minus, but Bjork was by far the worst in the team and nearly the worst in the league. That brings a valid question of how that happened.

blah blah blah blah still arguing plus/minus. It's trash. It is useless. There is no excusing it. It's arguing based on "who ties their shoelaces left-right versus right-left". It is axomatically meaningless noise and a waste of time.

 

[Viqsi]

Except he’s not close to as good as Laine

That depends on how you evaluate players. If you focus exclusively on shooting ability and goal scoring, Laine comes out ahead and it's not even close. If you're looking at other metrics - such as the majority of those that indicate an overall good hockey player - then the debate tilts Bjorkstrand's way.

 

[KJ Dangler]

Also quit bitching about Gud… he’s not that much of an overpay… and I can count multiple contracts where people felt Jarmo screwed the player and was too cheap. Gud is a physical presence, will clear the crease , and will mentor all the young defenseman in the defensive part of the game . Bjork wasn’t a core player , and was dealt.. sucks but better than giving up a first to unload nyquist

 

[koteka]

My "in a year if necessary" move would have involved buying out Voracek.

My “absolutely do not do ever do” move is buying out Voracek.

I hate buy outs generally. I really, really despise them in a flat cap world when I expect to be a better team in a a couple of years than we are now as our young players grow.

I am incredibly impressed with Voracek‘s knowledge about hockey and ability to share it. He is the guy I want around Sillinger and Johnson.

I would have attached picks to move Bjorkstrand before I would buy out Voracek.

 

[Viqsi]

My “absolutely do not do ever do” move is buying out Voracek.

I hate buy outs generally. I really, really despise them in a flat cap world when I expect to be a better team in a a couple of years than we are now as our young players grow.

I am incredibly impressed with Voracek‘s knowledge about hockey and ability to share it. He is the guy I want around Sillinger and Johnson.

I would have attached picks to move Bjorkstrand before I would buy out Voracek.

Fair enough. I admit it's not a move I would be happy about or would do trivally. Just that it'd be an available option if we did end up in that situation.

 

[Fro]

My “absolutely do not do ever do” move is buying out Voracek.

I hate buy outs generally. I really, really despise them in a flat cap world when I expect to be a better team in a a couple of years than we are now as our young players grow.

I am incredibly impressed with Voracek‘s knowledge about hockey and ability to share it. He is the guy I want around Sillinger and Johnson.

I would have attached picks to move Bjorkstrand before I would buy out Voracek.

That $4m or whatever dead cap then interferes with Marchenko, Blanky, Silly and KJ bridges...long term planning...

 

[GoJackets1]

Also quit bitching about Gud… he’s not that much of an overpay… and I can count multiple contracts where people felt Jarmo screwed the player and was too cheap. Gud is a physical presence, will clear the crease , and will mentor all the young defenseman in the defensive part of the game . Bjork wasn’t a core player , and was dealt.. sucks but better than giving up a first to unload nyquist

Bjorkstrand was absolutely a core player. That’s what makes this trade hard.

 

[Fro]

Bjorkstrand was absolutely a core player. That’s what makes this trade hard.

He was a home grown...but he gave his 10 team NT list...Jarmo is right, this side of the business sucks...

 

[Viqsi]

There's now some part of me that is fantasizing about Kekalainen playing 5D chess by using this move to help set the market for cap space such that everybody else in such a situation gets massively screwed, thus paving the way for our boys to move up.

Reasonable? No. Rational analysis? Heck no. Absurd? Completely. But is the thought still there? OMG IT WON'T GO AWAY WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH ME

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

I would advise against going there. And I personally resent the accusation.

I wasn't directing specifically at you but in general because there are people who always want to be angry about something.

 

[Halberdier]

+/- mentioned; post rejected as unhelpful noise.

Seriously. If I have to start bullying people to get them to shut up about that trash non-stat, I'll do it. It's noise. It's meaningless garbage. It tells nothing useful. You might as well be evaluating players based on whether or not they tuck their jersey.

What makes +/- "trash non-stat" for general comparison of players on different role/usage is that it does kind of include all situations, but only minuses from PP, pluses from PK and everything from empty net situations.

On principle the idea of +/- is excellent, but it's just the implementation that stinks. Stick to 5-on-5 (non-empty net) situations, and that's a great stat.

 

[KJ Dangler]

Bjorkstrand was absolutely a core player. That’s what makes this trade hard.

was… key word.. Jarmo is planning on a team that can compete for a cup for a 5-8 yr period … Zach, Jiricek, Mateychuk, Cuelemeans , Sillinger, KJ, Marchenko , Chinakov , Texier , Laine , Gaudreau are core of this team going forward

 

[ColumbusTrill]

Yeah we're talking about the same guy. I follow him for the same reasons.

He was really reaching with the Laine stuff.

Who is this?

 

[Marioesque]

That depends on how you evaluate players. If you focus exclusively on shooting ability and goal scoring, Laine comes out ahead and it's not even close. If you're looking at other metrics - such as the majority of those that indicate an overall good hockey player - then the debate tilts Bjorkstrand's way.

I only look at how much they contribute to winning, generated shots etc isn't that.

They're on different levels as players when playing healthy, Laine is certainly better. But Bjorkstrand is a very good player. Goal scoring is the most essential skill. It's not equal to advanced stats

 

[Booooooone 38]

To me it is pretty simple. What do you value more Bjorkstrand or Nyquist + 1st + 3rd + 4th. Even if it was a 1 year decision I still like the latter. Add in the extra cap space for the following 3 years is an extra bonus.

If we are missing the playoffs the 1st is going to be pretty high and Gus can be traded for even more picks. If we are competing for playoffs the extra picks can be used as trade bait to bring in an extra winger or defender at the deadline.

 

[AirSox]

Who is this?

I'm not going to put his name out there, it doesn't feel right.

 

[ColumbusTrill]

I'm not going to put his name out there, it doesn't feel right.

I feel ya. More interested some new cbj people to follow on Twitter. Feel free to dm if you’d like

 

[Halberdier]

Sorry but I'm done being patient and beating around the bush with it. Citing +/- is flat out stupid. Should Bjorkstrand have gone in the crease and made some more saves during his shifts?

The thing is, other guys had the very same goalies too. It does not make any sense to blame goalies for those goals against that magically occur when the same guy is on ice, but do not happen when many others are. They aren't changing the goalies when Bjork (or Chinny, Silly) are on ice.

Forget the broken +/- stat, but check what 5-on-5 goal differential tells you.

Ps. Chinakov was dead last with +23, -48, 32.39%, but couldn't fit him into screenshot of CBJ forwards over 500 minutes 5-on-5 TOI.

 

[Viqsi]

What makes +/- "trash non-stat" for general comparison of players on different role/usage is that it does kind of include all situations, but only minuses from PP, pluses from PK and everything from empty net situations.

On principle the idea of +/- is excellent, but it's just the implementation that stinks. Stick to 5-on-5 (non-empty net) situations, and that's a great stat.

Goals for/goals against, with teammate effects factored in, is what you want if you're interested in this sort of thing. +/- is utterly valueless.

* * *​

I only look at how much they contribute to winning, generated shots etc isn't that.

It's not that far off.

They're on different levels as players when playing healthy, Laine is certainly better. But Bjorkstrand is a very good player.

It's up for debate.

Goal scoring is the most essential skill. It's not equal to advanced stats

The most essential skill is bing a net positive on the ice - score more goals than you cause to be scored against you. Laine's record on that in particular is decidedly mixed. I think he's got room for improvement, tho, and I think he showed a lot of that recently, and I have hopes he can continue to do better. He'll never be a defensive wizard but I think he can get the goals-for/goals-against ratio improved a lot.

 

[Halberdier]

The most essential skill is bing a net positive on the ice - score more goals than you cause to be scored against you. Laine's record on that in particular is decidedly mixed. I think he's got room for improvement, tho, and I think he showed a lot of that recently, and I have hopes he can continue to do better. He'll never be a defensive wizard but I think he can get the goals-for/goals-against ratio improved a lot.

Indeed.

And Laine's record on that has been pretty good when healthy. He was leading that stat most of his Jets career, when both regular season and playoffs were considered. And he was really bad on that regard on 20-21 as a blue jacket, and not good at all on latter half of 18-19. Other than those he has been good to great on scoring more than he is scored against.

This is from last season, for example (5-on-5, forwards over 500 min TOI):