Biggest injustices in the history of hockey

[PistolPete]

I think everyone or nobody should go through the draft.

I'm on the no one side of that

Assuming the story is true, I wonder if he would've agreed to enter the draft if Hartford (Gordie Howe), Detroit, Toronto, Montreal or even Buffalo had the first overall pick

 

[MadLuke]

Did things change, I am not sure what the sentence agreeing to enter the draft would mean exactly, player never agree or disagree (or consulted) about being in a draft right ?

A draft pick has nothing to do with a player, it is a deal between teams that say the other teams agree to not negotiate with the player, the process do not involve the player at all.

 

[PistolPete]

Did things change, I am not sure what the sentence agreeing to enter the draft would mean exactly, player never agree or disagree (or consulted) about being in a draft right ?

A draft pick has nothing to do with a player, it is a deal between teams that say the other teams agree to not negotiate with the player, the process do not involve the player at all.

The story I have come across is Waybe Gretzky was given the option to go into the draft or keep his personal services contract with Picklington. Pocklingron argued that because he had a personal services contract with Grerzky, it didn't automatically get voided like that of the Baby Bulls or Messier etc

 

[CharlestownChiefsESC]

This obviously isn't the biggest injustice but Pocklingtons business problems forcing the Gretzky trade and break up of a dynasty team.

This is the prelude.to the salary cap which also is the bed of dynasty teams in any real sense.

Like I said not the biggest but still all time impacts.

See here's the thing if the hard cap is in place then they might actually win less. You figure at least Gretzky and Messier are the top priorities Coffey potentially as well but if its modeled like now you figure around 86 or 87 guys like Anderson and Kurri are highly sought after, you figure by the late 80s the same happens with Tikkanen. So i give them 84 and 85 but after that who knows.

Letting Gretzky skip the draft with the whole WHA thing and personal services contract. Not only one implicated but most impactful in nhl history.

True and as much as Devils fans dont wanna hear it the Rockies probably never leave if Gretzky is there. You figure with his name and profile the team drums up enough interest to stay. Which means the dpe Devils potentially never exsist. That franchise was a relocation and after 82 evreyone stayed put for 10 years.

 

[MadLuke]

But the league had to agree (NHL) and that different than agreeing about being in the draft or not, a team could have try to burn a last round pick of Gretzky and in case of consolidation try to argue he had to play for them.

 

[Moose Head]

How is that an injustice?

Story goes he actually could've entered the draft but had no desire to play in Colorado because they were so bad.

My understanding is the habs had the option on the Rockies 1st rounder in 79 or 80, and opted for 80 when Gretzky wasn’t available. They ended up taking Wickenheiser with the 1st overall in 1980, ugh!

 

[The Pale King]

Quebec losing their team and watching a group of largely homegrown players win the Cup the following season for another city seems worth a mention.

Them still not having a team, or even being seen as a serious contender to land one, is even more ridiculous now that the league seems to be considering expanding up to 36 teams.

 

[PistolPete]

My understanding is the habs had the option on the Rockies 1st rounder in 79 or 80, and opted for 80 when Gretzky wasn’t available. They ended up taking Wickenheiser with the 1st overall in 1980, ugh!

All I could find is the Canadiwba had the option to swap '80 alone.

The crazy thing is not only did they muss put on Savard, but that entire draft was crazy good-

Babych, Savard,, Murphy, Coffey, Peterson, Sutter, Bullqrd

 

[PistolPete]

But the league had to agree (NHL) and that different than agreeing about being in the draft or not, a team could have try to burn a last round pick of Gretzky and in case of consolidation try to argue he had to play for them.

It was part of an agreement Pocklington made with the league- thsr it was ultimately up to Gretzky I'd he wanted to continue with the personal services contract or enter the draft.

 

[PistolPete]

See here's the thing if the hard cap is in place then they might actually win less. You figure at least Gretzky and Messier are the top priorities Coffey potentially as well but if its modeled like now you figure around 86 or 87 guys like Anderson and Kurri are highly sought after, you figure by the late 80s the same happens with Tikkanen. So i give them 84 and 85 but after that who knows.

True and as much as Devils fans dont wanna hear it the Rockies probably never leave if Gretzky is there. You figure with his name and profile the team drums up enough interest to stay. Which means the dpe Devils potentially never exsist. That franchise was a relocation and after 82 evreyone stayed put for 10 years.

The Rockies left because of issues with a bad arena deal that the arena owner wasn't willing to renegotiate. So even with Gretzky, they would've left

 

[PistolPete]

Quebec losing their team and watching a group of largely homegrown players win the Cup the following season for another city seems worth a mention.

Them still not having a team, or even being seen as a serious contender to land one, is even more ridiculous now that the league seems to be considering expanding up to 36 teams.

Winnipeg and Otrawa are already at the bottom in revenue generated; why bring in another team that has the xleiling of earning at the existing bottom?

Even ss a player I would hate that

 

[MadLuke]

It was part of an agreement Pocklington made with the league- thsr it was ultimately up to Gretzky I'd he wanted to continue with the personal services contract or enter the draft.

yes which the league could have refused they decided to play nice to attract the Oilers but it was a choice right ?, was it really up to Gretzky once the league owner agree to respect the Oilers contract if they get into the league? (I thought the contract was clear on that part....), I guess he could have breached the contract and faced the consequence from the upcoming lawsuit...

 

[MadLuke]

Winnipeg and Otrawa are already at the bottom in revenue generated; why bring in another team that has the xleiling of earning at the existing bottom?

Logically any yet to have a team market would be quite at the bottom regardless of where they pick, specially if they ever go to 36.

It is in line with the recent panthers years according to the different estimate (no idea if they are good) despite very different level of playoff success and money coming in.

 

[PistolPete]

Logically any yet to have a team market would be quite at the bottom regardless of where they pick, specially if they ever go to 36.

It is in line with the recent panthers years according to the different estimate (no idea if they are good) despite very different level of playoff success and money coming in.

Canadians are hockey mad, they'll flock to the games without prompting but then trim off as the novelty wears off.

Quebec would be the second smallest market in the NHL- wedged between Winniepg and Ottawa. So these teams represent its revenue erasing ceiling potential, which is at the bottom. No matter how many years elapse, that's their fate.

OR a team could be placed in Portland, Houston, Charlotte, Hamilton- if you want another Canadian team- San Diego, Inland Empire, etc and have the potential to have a team leap over half the league and bring up the median and mean of revenue generated.

Vegas and Seattle- if memory serves me correctly- are already in the middle of the pack.

 

[The Panther]

Hart award voting manipulation in 1990 and 2002

There was no "manipulation" in either case. In 1990, Edmonton had three voters for the Hart, and in total SIX voters left Ray Bourque off the ballot entirely. Even if all three Edmonton-based voters left Bourque off the ballot (of which there's no evidence, and I highly doubt as most Edmonton media have a reasonable sense of "fair play"), it still wouldn't have been enough for Messier to win. At least three and possibly six voters outside of Edmonton left Bourque off the ballot.

Various and much-stupider Hart than this Hart votes have been made over the years. (1st-place Hart vote to Brian Sutter over Gretzky in 1985 and the Pittsburgh idiot voting McDavid 6th in 2023 come to mind...)

2002 is a little different, in that we can see that Montreal voters did, in fact, leave the co-leading Hart candidate off the ballot (thus making up the difference), but still it's just one wonky vote. Happens all the time.

Canada Cup 1987. The tournament was rigged in favor of Canada. The USSR despite committing maybe 10% of all fouls spent more time in the penalty box than Canada.

The tournament was not "rigged" in favor of Canada. A few years ago, I went back and watched the three games of the 1987 Canada Cup Final and there was the usual egregious missed-calls (typical of the era) in every game, about equally on both sides. One would have to have a clear agenda to see it otherwise. (That being said, the winning goal by Lemieux should not have counted, as Hawerchuk committed an obvious foul.)

 

[alko]

After Czechoslovakia was split, Slovakia was kicked to WCH C Division. And there was talk, it should be D Division.

2 Seasons lost in our history.

 

[WarriorofTime]

After Czechoslovakia was split, Slovakia was kicked to WCH C Division. And there was talk, it should be D Division.

2 Seasons lost in our history.

Yeah thats rough. The successor state is one thing but it seems like they should have made some arrangement to put Slovakia at a level on par with their player base. Bulgaria had to play Slovakia and three former Soviet states that year and the result was not pretty.

 

[GMR]

Soviets not being allowed to play in the NHL because of politics.

We never got to see Tretiak, Kharlamov, prime Fetisov, Mikhailov, etc. in the NHL.

 

[MadLuke]

That a solid general one above, also no professional in the olympics if they are in the NHL, but professional from other leagues is ok type of rules for some obscure reason.

And for the fans of hockey their recent absence in 2018-2022, no prime Crosby with some Mack-McDavid, Stamkos never played in one, Ovechkin-Malkin never won a medal...

 

[Sergei Bure]

Quebec losing their team and watching a group of largely homegrown players win the Cup the following season for another city seems worth a mention.

Them still not having a team, or even being seen as a serious contender to land one, is even more ridiculous now that the league seems to be considering expanding up to 36 teams.

No way they win without the Roy trade, and the only reason they got Roy was because the team was not in Quebec anymore.

I agree that they deserve a team, Quebec is a sacred place for Hockey, it is almost like when Minesotta lost his team in 1993, the american state with more hockey tradition not having a team it was ridiculous. I am glad they got the Wild, but they don't have the same mystique of the North Stars.

 

[MadLuke]

They could have won without Roy imo, it was Penguins vs Panthers in the east that year, they were scoring 4.4 goal per game before that trade, very loaded offensively and they could have made a different one, they had a lot of piece.

If we are to believe Savard, a Roy for Nolan-Fiset trade was in the serious talk just before the Nordiques left so I am not 100% certain what seem a very unlikely trade to a rival do not happen if they stay either.

Krupp-Ozolinsh-Lemieux with Roy maybe that too much money for the Nordiques too... and maybe it look different list of name wise. kovalanko-Rucinsky were not super expensive.

 

[Sergei Bure]

They could have won without Roy imo, it was Penguins vs Panthers in the east that year, they were scoring 4.4 goal per game before that trade, very loaded offensively and they could have made a different one, they had a lot of piece.

If we are to believe Savard, a Roy for Nolan-Fiset trade was in the serious talk just before the Nordiques left so I am not 100% certain what seem a very unlikely trade to a rival do not happen if they stay either.

Krupp-Ozolinsh-Lemieux with Roy maybe that too much money for the Nordiques too... and maybe it look different list of name wise. kovalanko-Rucinsky were not super expensive.

They don't beat Detroit without Roy, even Chicago who gave a bigger fight to the Avalanche in 1996 than the Red Wings. Now, if they signed Belfour when he left Chicago or San Jose, i buy that they still won 2 cups.

 

[MadLuke]

They do not have to play the Hawks in the stay in Quebec scenario, maybe they face the Wings (probable, but maybe they never have too, low probably I will say has they made the final 95-96 if they beat the non avs-97-98... but still everything happen in hockey)

It depends what they do will all those piece instead, they had an incredible top 9 without all those trade.

Kamensky-Rucinsky-Simon-Rychel
Forsberg-Sakic-Ricci-Yelle
Nolan->Lemieux, Young, Deadmarsh, Kovalanko

D: Ozolinsh, Lefebvre, Foote, Leschychyn, Kleem, Gurasov, Krupp that 7 D that could be on a good team top 4 on the same squad.

That the type of teams that can win it even if it is "just" Fiset in net even if they face Osgood Wings, Ricci-Rucinsky-Deadmarsh type of third line... Kleem on a third pair (he played 23 minutes a game and got some low all star vote the first year out of the Avs), while he was barely making that team....

 

[Sergei Bure]

They do not have to play the Hawks in the stay in Quebec scenario, maybe they face the Wings (probable, but maybe they never have too, low probably I will say has they made the final 95-96 if they beat the non avs-97-98... but still everything happen in hockey)

It depends what they do will all those piece instead, they had an incredible top 9 without all those trade.

I meant if the Wings or the Blackhawks reached the final...