Better format for next World Cup

[decma]

Alternate format:

Canada
USA
Sweden
Russia
Finland
Czech Republic

I agree with this.

Canada Cup was always a six-team tournament, and I think this has advantages.

It allows for a full round robin. Five games each. Could have semis and then a final, or 1st gets a bye, and only one semi. Final could be one-game or best of three.

This results in more meaningful games b/w top countries.

I think each of the 98 to 14 Olympics had seven to ten games between big 6 countries. A full round robin 6-team Cup would have 17 to 20, depending on the playoff format.

Another advantage of a full round robin is that playoff spots are decided on the basis of a more meaningful sample than what we just saw with 16 World Cup.

 

[Xokkeu]

The only way to make these tourneys interesting again is to hire someone like Bobby Clarke to run Team Canada again and bring the likes of Zamuner and Corson and Draper and Maltby along.

Ever since Canada figured out in 2010 that they should only bring first line and top pairing guys, the results have been extremely boring.

Let's be honest - it's every bit as big a talent discrepancy as USA Basketball at the olympics. It's just not competitive.

The US has 5 loses since 1936.

 

[Reindl87]

Neutral referees might be a good starter.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Neutral referees might be a good starter.

For sure, the only reason Canada ever wins any of these tournaments is because the referees have their orders. Same goes for the Olympics.

 

[winnipegger]

You just have to keep it simple and make it 8 national teams. Everyone loves a good upset and those happen once in a while.

 

[Confucius]

At this point, the NHL should perhaps give the fans something exciting to watch instead like a U24 NA team vs a U24 Europe team series, now that would be something people would watch!

Yep and make it a 5 game series (not best of 5) if one side gets clobbered 5 games to 0 so be it.

 

[Orange Dragon]

For sure, the only reason Canada ever wins any of these tournaments is because the referees have their orders. Same goes for the Olympics.

No one said that. You seem very insecure about this topic.

 

[JTD]

I'd make it 10 teams in 2020. 12 might be a bit much with the way the international game is right now, but 10 works. Canada, Russia, Sweden, USA, Finland, Czech Republic get automatic berths. 7-10 in the IIHF rankings host 4 qualifying tournaments of 4 teams each. Play a round robin but unlike the Olympics don't award the team with the most points at the end of the round robin the winner. Re-seed 1-4 and then play the semifinals and final and winner advances to the WC.

Make the World Cup two groups of 5 like the World Juniors. Top 4 teams in each group advance to the quarterfinals and keep the best of 3 format in the finals. I'd take a page out of the World Baseball Classic's book and make the top 8 teams have a guaranteed spot in the next World Cup while the 2 last place teams have to play in qualifying tournaments to qualify for the 2024 tournament.

 

[Analyst365]

I'd make it 10 teams in 2020. 12 might be a bit much with the way the international game is right now, but 10 works. Canada, Russia, Sweden, USA, Finland, Czech Republic get automatic berths. 7-10 in the IIHF rankings host 4 qualifying tournaments of 4 teams each. Play a round robin but unlike the Olympics don't award the team with the most points at the end of the round robin the winner. Re-seed 1-4 and then play the semifinals and final and winner advances to the WC.

Make the World Cup two groups of 5 like the World Juniors. Top 4 teams in each group advance to the quarterfinals and keep the best of 3 format in the finals. I'd take a page out of the World Baseball Classic's book and make the top 8 teams have a guaranteed spot in the next World Cup while the 2 last place teams have to play in qualifying tournaments to qualify for the 2024 tournament.

That sounds too much like a properly designed sporting competition top go down well on these boards. Too many people just want fancy highlights and helmet cams, and the NHL is more than happy to oblige.

 

[Frank Drebin]

No one said that. You seem very insecure about this topic.

The implication was there. It's hilarious, regardless.

 

[Reindl87]

​

For sure, the only reason Canada ever wins any of these tournaments is because the referees have their orders. Same goes for the Olympics.

Doesn't that make it even more embarassing? Being superior and still doing this ****. Imagine a soccer World Cup final between Brasil and Germany and the referees would be Brasil. This is beyond any imaginable reality. Everybody would be disgusted by it, including Brazilian fans. It just shows an unheard lack of sportsmanshipm by an entire nation. Every other nation woud be ashamed of it and DEMAND the refs to be from a neutral nation.

 

[JackSlater]

Doesn't that make it even more embarassing? Being superior and still doing this ****. Imagine a soccer World Cup final between Brasil and Germany and the referees would be Brasil. This is beyond any imaginable reality. Everybody would be disgusted by it, including Brazilian fans. It just shows an unheard lack of sportsmanshipm by an entire nation. Every other nation woud be ashamed of it and DEMAND the refs to be from a neutral nation.

You have some evidence of a Canadian team being favoured by Canadian refs... right? In the last few decades you must have something. If all you can do is claim that it wouldn't happen in a sport like soccer, which is corrupt far beyond anything we see in hockey, that would seem a bit flimsy.

Separate point, but I am mystified by people acting like Canada is too good to lose. This is hockey, not basketball. The less talented team wins plenty of times in hockey, and a team can even be outplayed and still win. That's the nature of the sport.

 

[JaysCyYoung]

​

Doesn't that make it even more embarassing? Being superior and still doing this ****. Imagine a soccer World Cup final between Brasil and Germany and the referees would be Brasil. This is beyond any imaginable reality. Everybody would be disgusted by it, including Brazilian fans. It just shows an unheard lack of sportsmanshipm by an entire nation. Every other nation woud be ashamed of it and DEMAND the refs to be from a neutral nation.

Canadian referees happen to be selected for the finals of international hockey events because they are consistently the best in the world, undergo the most extensive training, and they make up the bulk of the highest quality officials available. Just as Howard Webb of England was the regular choice to officiate FIFA World Cup and UEFA events for many years, regardless of the opponents (he officiated plenty of matches involving Argentina, France, and Germany - huge English rivals), so too are Canadian referees chosen to officiate the top events and finals, regardless of the teams involved.

You're being paranoid for absolutely no reason here. You absolutely do not want to have a situation where you have some neutral awful Swiss or Norwegian referee (for example) that can't control the game properly just for the sake of optics rather than the best officials available.

 

[Reindl87]

Canadian referees happen to be selected for the finals of international hockey events because they are consistently the best in the world, undergo the most extensive training, and they make up the bulk of the highest quality officials available. Just as Howard Webb of England was the regular choice to officiate FIFA World Cup and UEFA events for many years, regardless of the opponents (he officiated plenty of matches involving Argentina, France, and Germany - huge English rivals), so too are Canadian referees chosen to officiate the top events and finals, regardless of the teams involved.

You're being paranoid for absolutely no reason here. You absolutely do not want to have a situation where you have some neutral awful Swiss or Norwegian referee (for example) that can't control the game properly just for the sake of optics rather than the best officials available.

Howard Webb would have NEVER been selected for a match that includes the English national team, And if some how some way FIFA/UEFA would have sheduled him to do so, he would have never accepted it, neither would have the English federation. IT's simply a no go. The whole sports world sees it like that, except for hockey Canada.

 

[Rorschach]

Pool A: Canada East, USA, Czechs, Europe
Pool B: Canada West, Russia, Sweden, Finland

Quebec will secede in celebration of Canada East winning.

 

[Gary Nylund]

No one said that. You seem very insecure about this topic.

If laughing hysterically is insecure then yeah, sure.

​

Doesn't that make it even more embarassing? Being superior and still doing this ****. Imagine a soccer World Cup final between Brasil and Germany and the referees would be Brasil. This is beyond any imaginable reality. Everybody would be disgusted by it, including Brazilian fans. It just shows an unheard lack of sportsmanshipm by an entire nation. Every other nation woud be ashamed of it and DEMAND the refs to be from a neutral nation.

What would be embarrassing if if the NHL organized a tournament for the world's best players and provided anything less then the best available officiating. Hockey isn't soccer, you don't know what you're talking about. Most hockey fans know what's what, you don't for some reason ... whatever.

 

[Big Phil]

Pool A: Canada East, USA, Czechs, Europe
Pool B: Canada West, Russia, Sweden, Finland

See, this is how it starts. No, seriously it is. Now, this format sounds silly doesn't it? We can all agree it is. However, have the media push this down your throats for a couple of years and the fans would be excited about this format almost to the point where they would want both Canadian teams to meet. It would happen, don't kid yourself at how the media shapes your opinions. They wouldn't shape mine, I still think team North America was a disgrace and a joke and am glad they are knocked out so I can focus on my country playing other countries for hockey supremacy and the little tykes on the NA team can go to their training camps.

The NHL never gets things right. They managed to screw up the simplest format. Thankfully we will get some meaningful games with Canada/Russia and maybe Canada/Sweden in the final to make us forget about the other gimmicks. However, this is how I think they should do it.

10 teams:

Canada, Russia, USA, Slovakia, (Germany)
Sweden, Finland, Czechs, Switzerland, (Belarus)

Have them each play each other once. So if there are 5 in each pool then 4 round robin games. Tie breakers are with the head to head match ups and if that is still tied then the goal differential. Have a cross over quarterfinal (eg. 1a vs. 4b and so on). Then the semis (highest seed vs. lowest seed and then two middle seeds). Then a best two out of three. The NHL did one thing right here, they brought back the best 2 out of 3 in the final. So the maximum a team plays is 9 games. The least will be 4 round robin games so at least you get a feel for things. One team in each seed doesn't make the quarters.

If you don't like that format, there was nothing wrong with the old Canada Cup versions as well. 6 teams (the big 6) all play each other once. Top 4 teams move on for the semi finals. Best two-out-of-three in the final. Done. The best wins.

Personally since I think we can go bigger than 6 teams we should stick to 10 and do the format in the first paragraph.

 

[Gary Nylund]

See, this is how it starts. No, seriously it is. Now, this format sounds silly doesn't it? We can all agree it is. However, have the media push this down your throats for a couple of years and the fans would be excited about this format almost to the point where they would want both Canadian teams to meet. It would happen, don't kid yourself at how the media shapes your opinions. They wouldn't shape mine, I still think team North America was a disgrace and a joke and am glad they are knocked out so I can focus on my country playing other countries for hockey supremacy and the little tykes on the NA team can go to their training camps.

The NHL never gets things right. They managed to screw up the simplest format. Thankfully we will get some meaningful games with Canada/Russia and maybe Canada/Sweden in the final to make us forget about the other gimmicks. However, this is how I think they should do it.

10 teams:

Canada, Russia, USA, Slovakia, (Germany)
Sweden, Finland, Czechs, Switzerland, (Belarus)

Have them each play each other once. So if there are 5 in each pool then 4 round robin games. Tie breakers are with the head to head match ups and if that is still tied then the goal differential. Have a cross over quarterfinal (eg. 1a vs. 4b and so on). Then the semis (highest seed vs. lowest seed and then two middle seeds). Then a best two out of three. The NHL did one thing right here, they brought back the best 2 out of 3 in the final. So the maximum a team plays is 9 games. The least will be 4 round robin games so at least you get a feel for things. One team in each seed doesn't make the quarters.

If you don't like that format, there was nothing wrong with the old Canada Cup versions as well. 6 teams (the big 6) all play each other once. Top 4 teams move on for the semi finals. Best two-out-of-three in the final. Done. The best wins.

Personally since I think we can go bigger than 6 teams we should stick to 10 and do the format in the first paragraph.

All the previous Canada/World Cups were fantastic, like close to if not completely perfect. And now you say they never get it right, WTF?

 

[Big Phil]

​

Doesn't that make it even more embarassing? Being superior and still doing this ****. Imagine a soccer World Cup final between Brasil and Germany and the referees would be Brasil. This is beyond any imaginable reality. Everybody would be disgusted by it, including Brazilian fans. It just shows an unheard lack of sportsmanshipm by an entire nation. Every other nation woud be ashamed of it and DEMAND the refs to be from a neutral nation.

I'll get to some times where I can admit there was questionable refereeing, but in the senior tournaments has there ever been a complaint about the refs in 30 years? I can't think of one, even the years Canada lost. I can remember us being too tired in 1996, too slow in 1998 and just completely out of sync and undisciplined in 2006. Never was it because of poor refereeing. So I can't say I have blamed the refs any time we've lost.

Isn't it better to have the guys in there with the most experience? Here is what Bob Johnson said in 1987 during the Canada Cup. Start at 1:20 when he is livid with the officials. He then goes on to say he wishes there was an NHL ref with more experience there because he could have handled the situation.


I've seen European refereeing and any Canadian can tell you that while it has gotten better, there was a time when a body check that made a loud noise would be penalized in the WJC or the Worlds. We all know this happened and Canada was a team that got hurt by it. You can't tell me an NHL ref reacts that way. Look at the Canada/USA game a few days ago. Not overly physical, but there was a bit of bad blood. Doughty got smacked in the face as (Kesler?) went by him at the blue line dumping the puck in. No big deal. Two men roughing it up, no penalties. That's how you do it. Let them play. That's hockey in a nutshell.

I can admit Don Koharski had a couple of blown calls in 1987. That's fine. However, I'll raise you a Joseph Kompalla in 1972. Time has shown he was specifically brought in to screw over Canada. The Swedish ref Dahlberg was told to stay in his hotel room. I mean, Koharski at least was equal with one thing, he hated everybody, even Canada. Canada was mostly the NHL and he hated the NHL players and they hated him. So he wasn't going out of his way to throw the game for Canada. Remember, the 4th Soviet goal in Game 3 was caused by a blatant trip that went uncontested. 1987, 1957, 1917 or 2016, that's a penalty, but it wasn't. So it did go both ways with us too.

That being said, at the top level other than 1972 I do not remember bad officiating in these tournaments. Probably because we used the best guys.

 

[Big Phil]

All the previous Canada/World Cups were fantastic, like close to if not completely perfect. And now you say they never get it right, WTF?

Let's say the modern NHL doesn't. And they don't. This is how bad this format in 2016 was and I can't believe I am saying this but I will.................this would NEVER have happened with Alan Eagleson. Alright, there, even a crook who was all about himself knew how to make the proper format. That is what this format reduced me to say. That and the fact I cheered for the Russians to beat North America just so we can have a great game with some meaning and a historic rival.

So there you go, I long for Alan Eagleson's organization in this tournament and I cheered for the Russians against the gimmick team. Yeah, the NHL didn't get it right this time. Fortunately we can still have some meaningful hockey the next few days.

 

[torero]

Hmm I think this would be a better:

Pool 1
Canada Ontario
Canada Quebec
Canada West
Rest of Canada

Pool 2
Canada Ontario 2
Canada Quebec 2
Euros
USA

More seriously, at the end i liked the format !! it was fun and i surprised myself to watch and enjoy almost all games so far.

After all, like this, the NHL promotes interesting hockey ... sliced differently than by nations.
It allows the NHL to run this pseudo-World cup, according to its rules, and still respects the IIHF and the Olympics organizations while on the same time, promoting very interesting hockey.

And frankly spoken, i was against team Europe ... being Swiss i felt treated like garbage. This sentiment remains ... but the truth is also that Swizerland is not yet a great hockey nation. It certainly is a better nation than 10 years ago ... but it is not a great nation. Although, in this hockey style, (fast, gritty and little physicality) our LNA (Swiss league) players would have had a perfect fit to complete the Swiss NHLers. But since their are only few places in this pre-NHL-regular-season championship it makes sense. And slicing the young guns is a formidable idea.

It took guts to inovate in that term, but to be honest, i felt it was a success ... .

As said, with these slices other than by nation, it opens a new market for the NHL, without stepping on the fields of IIHF and Olympic games, and that is great IMO. Therefore it is a Win-Win-Win situation that was created by the NHL. cudos !

 

[John Eichel da GOAT]

OP Fail


Canada
USA
Sweden
Finland
Czech Republic
Russia
North America 23U
World 23U
Europe 24+
North America 24+ (Basically whoever didn't make Canada or USA)

3/5 teams from each division make the playoffs with the 1 seeds getting byes.

 

[Reindl87]

I'll get to some times where I can admit there was questionable refereeing, but in the senior tournaments has there ever been a complaint about the refs in 30 years? I can't think of one, even the years Canada lost. I can remember us being too tired in 1996, too slow in 1998 and just completely out of sync and undisciplined in 2006. Never was it because of poor refereeing. So I can't say I have blamed the refs any time we've lost.

Isn't it better to have the guys in there with the most experience? Here is what Bob Johnson said in 1987 during the Canada Cup. Start at 1:20 when he is livid with the officials. He then goes on to say he wishes there was an NHL ref with more experience there because he could have handled the situation.


I've seen European refereeing and any Canadian can tell you that while it has gotten better, there was a time when a body check that made a loud noise would be penalized in the WJC or the Worlds. We all know this happened and Canada was a team that got hurt by it. You can't tell me an NHL ref reacts that way. Look at the Canada/USA game a few days ago. Not overly physical, but there was a bit of bad blood. Doughty got smacked in the face as (Kesler?) went by him at the blue line dumping the puck in. No big deal. Two men roughing it up, no penalties. That's how you do it. Let them play. That's hockey in a nutshell.

I can admit Don Koharski had a couple of blown calls in 1987. That's fine. However, I'll raise you a Joseph Kompalla in 1972. Time has shown he was specifically brought in to screw over Canada. The Swedish ref Dahlberg was told to stay in his hotel room. I mean, Koharski at least was equal with one thing, he hated everybody, even Canada. Canada was mostly the NHL and he hated the NHL players and they hated him. So he wasn't going out of his way to throw the game for Canada. Remember, the 4th Soviet goal in Game 3 was caused by a blatant trip that went uncontested. 1987, 1957, 1917 or 2016, that's a penalty, but it wasn't. So it did go both ways with us too.

That being said, at the top level other than 1972 I do not remember bad officiating in these tournaments. Probably because we used the best guys.

Nobody says that the Canadian referees are bias. However, it's simply a generally accept pattern that you don't allow referees in games of their own country. There will always be left a bad taste. Whether it s justified or not. I think it should be in the best interest of Hockey Canada not to have Canadian referees in their own games. As long as they do, people will always ask why? Why of all the nations and all the sports in the world is it only Canada that plays with their own referees. This will always look bad, no matter how you flip it.

 

[Big Phil]

Nobody says that the Canadian referees are bias. However, it's simply a generally accept pattern that you don't allow referees in games of their own country. There will always be left a bad taste. Whether it s justified or not. I think it should be in the best interest of Hockey Canada not to have Canadian referees in their own games. As long as they do, people will always ask why? Why of all the nations and all the sports in the world is it only Canada that plays with their own referees. This will always look bad, no matter how you flip it.

I would say it is because the best referees are quite often Canadian because they are working in the best league in the world. Come on, let's face it, we've seen officiating everywhere else. No official is perfect, but the NHL guys are about as good as you can get. Remember a few years ago in the NFL when they had replacement refs for a few games? You noticed right away. It is the same in hockey. If it was an American, a Swede, a Russian, or whoever, as long as he is the best in the business who cares?

This is the thing here, you can't just shout "Canadian bias" and not have a back up statement. Find times where there has been legitimate bias against another country and we can talk.

 

[Nordic*]

Hey.

I have a better format.

The following nations face off in a series, where all teams face eachother twice.

Canada, Sweden, USA, Russia, Finland & Czechs.

Every nation has to use 12 defencemen, 24 forwards and 3 goalies. IE: Every team faces all the other teams twice and has to use all the skaters in these two games (two teams), all three goalies has to get at least 2 games each.

Then when the series is done, 1 meets 4 and 2 faces off against 3 in a 3 game series, where you now get to use whatever players you choose. Then of course the final, best of three.


This I would watch the hell out of, even though it would favor Canada even more.