Best Goalie Title Belt Reigns

[Stanislasjc]

I don't necessarily mean who was the best goalie in each year (obviously that's a factor), but rather who was widely considered the best goalie over a stretch of years. Like the reign of a monarch. And if someone takes a belt from a long time champ, they have to really TAKE it, you know? I would really value people's recollections of what the general consensus was at the time, but obviously I am open to arguments that the consensus was wrong.

You can go as far back and as recent as you want. Just tell me the stretches you feel strongest about. Some examples of how I'm thinking about this exercise:

Like I'd say Patrick Roy took the belt from Fuhr from 1989-1993, with Belfour challenging him a couple times (they went back and forth on Vezinas), but did Belfour truly take the belt from Roy, once we factor in postseason? What do you remember?

Hasek imo had it from 1994 until 2001, and I don't think he gives up the belt in 99-00 just because of injury, However, in 2002 I'm not sure if Hasek hung on to the belt with Detroit. If memory serves the title felt up for grabs in 2002 and maybe that means no one had it (I think that's legit too). I do think some years there was a bit of a goaltending power vacuum (like in the post Dryden early 80's).

OH! And you can count non-NHLers--which mostly only applies to Tretiak lol

Click to read more...

 

[VanIslander]

Belfour never had the belt.
Let's get that clear.

 

[Dingo]

i never felt Belfour took it from Roy, but he was THE contender, for sure.

Fuhr - Roy - Hasek - Brodeur - Lundqvist - Price - Vasilevsky

Are the main ones in my memory, but i know there were little blips in there, little Buster Douglas types.

Belfour, Kipper, Thomas, and a smattering of guys since Lundqvist aged. Really Brodeur was the last one to firmly, consistently hold the belt. Its been kind of one year to the next since then with my feeling being that Lundqvist, Price and Vas were the most stable elites.

 

[VanIslander]

In my lifetime, the top dogs were spouted as being:

Plante.
Dryden. Tretiak. Dryden. Tretiak. Dry...
Fuhr. Tretiak. Tretiak. Tretiak.
Roy.
Roy.
Roy & Hasek.
Hasek.
Hasek.
Hasek.
OMG Hasek.
.
.
Brodeur?
.
.
.
.
Luongo, Lundqvist.

 

[VanIslander]

A fun memory:



Roy & Hasek were the best players on the ice, night after night.

 

[reckoning]

Ed Belfour was more like a Barry Windham or a Curt Hennig. Always a top contender who was in the conversation, but never firmly established himself as the champ. The mantle clearly went from Roy to Hasek to Brodeur.

 

[blogofmike]

Ed Belfour was more like a Barry Windham or a Curt Hennig. Always a top contender who was in the conversation, but never firmly established himself as the champ. The mantle clearly went from Roy to Hasek to Brodeur.

I would have gone with Ted DiBiase because of the billion dollar bribe attempt.

Everyone has a price, but it turns out you can overshoot the mark...

 

[Crosby2010]

Let's go post-expansion here because prior to that you had an assortment of Hall/Sawchuk/Plante over the previous 15 years or so.

So.............
1967-'71 - Giacomon
1971-'73 - Dryden
1973-'75 - Parent
1975-'79 - Dryden
1979-'84 - Smith
1984-'89 - Fuhr
1989-'94 - Roy
1994-'02 - Hasek
2002-'10 - Brodeur
2010-'13 - Lundqvist
2013-'17 - Price
2017-'22 - Vasilevskiy

Since then, I don't know. Maybe Bobrovsky's re-birth? It is funny because you don't even have Tony Esposito in here and yet he's right there with the best of them. I agree that Belfour never had the belt. Roy was winning the Vezina in between Belfour's two years and Roy also won the Cup in 1993. It was Roy's until Hasek took it from him for about a decade. In my book Hasek and Brodeur have the longest reign out of anyone. And if anyone wondered why I added Parent, there is no way anyone else had that mantle for those two years. Dryden literally took a year off in 1974, and the back to back Cups by the Broad Street Bullies which included two 1st team all-stars for Parent and two Conn Smythes is not a resume anyone else can say in hockey history that they had over a two year span, I don't think. Sawchuk in the early to mid 1950s possibly, Hasek in the late 1990s possibly too. But Parent's best two years back to back you would be hard pressed to find a goalie more decorated in a two year span. So I have to put him in there.

 

[buffalowing88]

Let's go post-expansion here because prior to that you had an assortment of Hall/Sawchuk/Plante over the previous 15 years or so.

So.............
1967-'71 - Giacomon
1971-'73 - Dryden
1973-'75 - Parent
1975-'79 - Dryden
1979-'84 - Smith
1984-'89 - Fuhr
1989-'94 - Roy
1994-'02 - Hasek
2002-'10 - Brodeur
2010-'13 - Lundqvist
2013-'17 - Price
2017-'22 - Vasilevskiy

Since then, I don't know. Maybe Bobrovsky's re-birth? It is funny because you don't even have Tony Esposito in here and yet he's right there with the best of them. I agree that Belfour never had the belt. Roy was winning the Vezina in between Belfour's two years and Roy also won the Cup in 1993. It was Roy's until Hasek took it from him for about a decade. In my book Hasek and Brodeur have the longest reign out of anyone. And if anyone wondered why I added Parent, there is no way anyone else had that mantle for those two years. Dryden literally took a year off in 1974, and the back to back Cups by the Broad Street Bullies which included two 1st team all-stars for Parent and two Conn Smythes is not a resume anyone else can say in hockey history that they had over a two year span, I don't think. Sawchuk in the early to mid 1950s possibly, Hasek in the late 1990s possibly too. But Parent's best two years back to back you would be hard pressed to find a goalie more decorated in a two year span. So I have to put him in there.

That's a really good list. I'd probably fit Luongo in there somewhere between Brodeur and Lundqvist but no complaints here.

 

[Michael Farkas]

A lot of Fuhr mentions...was he the best goalie or was he the "team that was winning with Gretzky starting goalie"...?

Is there much harm in just going from Smith to Roy...?

 

[Crosby2010]

That's a really good list. I'd probably fit Luongo in there somewhere between Brodeur and Lundqvist but no complaints here.

I thought so too, but I was just wondering where? Gold medal in 2010, Cup final in 2011 and finishing 3rd in Vezina voting, Then falling off by his standards afterwards. I just am trying to see where his staying power was to fit in there. He's actually got a better shot between 2003 and 2011 or so but Brodeur is the man at this point, hard to kick him off that mantle.

A lot of Fuhr mentions...was he the best goalie or was he the "team that was winning with Gretzky starting goalie"...?

Is there much harm in just going from Smith to Roy...?

I think the transition occured in 1984. 1982 Smith wins the Vezina, then Smith wins the Smythe in 1983 along with his 4th Cup. Fuhr struggles in 1983 and actually has some minor league time (10 games) that year. 1984 Fuhr is clearly the man in Edmonton and even though he got hurt in the Cup final the Oilers were on their way at that point of the series anyways. Moog fills in but Fuhr wins it too if he's playing those last couple games. Then Fuhr, not Smith, is being chosen as part of the Canada Cup team in 1984. I think the Cups plus the Vezina finishes which were okay outside of his big win in 1988 have to cement him as the best goalie and basically take it from Smith in a smooth transition. Barrasso, Lindbergh, Beezer, Vernon, Liut, Peeters, all have good years in that area but none of them take the mantle and force you to say "Oh wow, he's the best goalie!" So I give it to Fuhr.

 

[VanIslander]

1967-'71 - Giacomon
1971-'73 - Dryden
1973-'75 - Parent
1975-'79 - Dryden
1979-'84 - Smith
1984-'89 - Fuhr
1989-'94 - Roy
1994-'02 - Hasek
2002-'10 - Brodeur
2010-'13 - Lundqvist
2013-'17 - Price
2017-'22 - Vasilevskiy

If you want to parse and label each year's best, go ahead.

But the all-time greatest torch was handed for a few years, from Plante to Dryden with Tretiak within reach.

Then there were the NHL dead years... between Dryden's early retirement and Roy's rookie season... Tretiak was the only name in town.

 

[blogofmike]

81-82: Tretiak. Probably has the belt in 79 too, but the 1980 Olympics were a Buster Douglas moment. The 2 goals he allowed were very soft.

83: Billy Smith. Can still go Tretiak, but the man capped off a 4th consecutive Cup with a Conn Smythe. HM to Pete Peeters for the regular season. And only the regular season.

84-88: Grant Fuhr. The big game goalie of the era. Others had better individual seasons, but assuming Bill Simmons rules, no one unseated him as the guy you'd want in net to win a series.

89-93: Patrick Roy. Great regular season performances. Some middling playoffs in the middle, but a couple of top notch showings at either end.

94-01: Dominik Hasek. Giving it to him in 1994 is done with the benefit of hindsight. You could also argue that Brodeur was the guy from 94-95, as I don't know that you would definitely pick Hasek without knowing what's coming.

2002: Jose Theodore. Might have to give the belt to a Hart winner, though Hasek winning on the Wings and Brodeur with Team Canada might establish them as guys who get an extra year.

2003-2008: Martin Brodeur. Seems a little too long to have him as title holder, but he has 4 of 5 Vezinas. Being viewed as the guy with the belt may have helped him steal a Vezina that maybe should have gone to Luongo.

2009-2011: Tim Thomas. Unbelievably strong peak. Thomas stood on his head at times for Boston. On par with peak Sawchuk, who has the early 50s belt.

2012-2014: Henrik Lundqvist. Quick has a case, but I think King Henrik stealing games for an average Rangers team gets the nod. (Also I'm really giving him the belt before this, I just want to see if one guy's head explodes with the last pick.)

2015-2017: Carey Price. MVP, and Team Canada had some of the least exciting games ever in 2014 and 2016 (except for a pre-tournament game vs USA in 2016, as I recall.) As Price was injured for a stretch, perhaps Holtby picks up a reign, but as good as his numbers are, Holtby never felt like the guy you want in net to win a big game, which should be part of the criteria for the belt, no?

2019-2021: Andrei Vasilevskiy

2022-present: Igor Shesterkin

 

[carjackmalone]

Wasn’t there a blip for about 18 months During the short reign of Jim Carey the net detective

 

[Michael Farkas]

That previous list might as well include that blip and Brian Boucher's five shutout streak haha

 

[MadLuke]

A lot of Fuhr mentions...was he the best goalie or was he the "team that was winning with Gretzky starting goalie"...?

Is there much harm in just going from Smith to Roy...?

The thread is about, who was considered the best goalie and not about who was actually the best.

For example if Fuhr was making team Canada over Roy without much controversy until 89-90 Roy stretch, good argument can be made that he was considered the best Canadian goaltender.

2002: Jose Theodore. Might have to give the belt to a Hart winner, though Hasek winning on the Wings and Brodeur with Team Canada might establish them as guys who get an extra year.

I would argue than even in 2002 he was perceived as a boderline top 3 among Canadian goaltender, let alone the world.

He was second team all-star, he won the Vezina on a tie breaker over Roy, during what was considered a peak season for him.

The Olympics of that year give us a good view of what we thought at the time.

There was a semi-consensus if Roy want to come back, he has the job, if not should be Brodeur, but we understand why they go Cujo (Quinn, really good 1996 performance).

Roy-Belfour-Brodeur were all clearly ahead, Joseph was not seen as a downgrade, without the drugs for hair controversy even with Roy not going, he would have been number 3 at best. Turco-Luongo started strong.

And you obviously have international goaltenders that is always strong competition, last stretch of Hasek, Nabokov, Khabibulin, Kolzig, etc... not sure Theodore was seen to have separated himself from that pack, the position is always seen as it is possible to be hot for a stretch, that ability to deliver year after year is what separate you.

 

[JackSlater]

i never felt Belfour took it from Roy, but he was THE contender, for sure.

Fuhr - Roy - Hasek - Brodeur - Lundqvist - Price - Vasilevsky

Are the main ones in my memory, but i know there were little blips in there, little Buster Douglas types.

Belfour, Kipper, Thomas, and a smattering of guys since Lundqvist aged. Really Brodeur was the last one to firmly, consistently hold the belt. Its been kind of one year to the next since then with my feeling being that Lundqvist, Price and Vas were the most stable elites.

I think that that is mostly right, though the Fuhr part is a bit iffy though likely accurate. Tretiak had a sizable run as the perceived champion, in reverse from the early to mid 1980s to some time in the 1970s.

Sawchuk has easily on of the most celebrated peaks of all time and was generally regarded as the greatest goaltender ever at least through the 1990s. I'm curious as to when he stopped being viewed as the best goaltender in the NHL, which is not quite the same as award voting or a dip in stats. Ideally people who followed the NHL at the time could chime in but that is increasingly rare. Perhaps people have read some contemporary sources that talk about this.

 

[MadLuke]

A bit stupid, but EA sport nhl rating can give an idea of popular perception.

NHL 94, Belfour was the highest rated goaltender, Fuhr was still really high.

Roy was closer in 95, but Belfour was still ahead, and Hasek = Fuhr, followed by Joseph-Potvin then Brodeur.

They probably consult expert and have some want for accurary, but they would have also have what players want and thinks of player in minds.

 

[jigglysquishy]

I'll take a stab at early hockey

1885-1893 - Tom Paton
1894-1896 - Herbie Collins
1897-1898 - George Merritt
1899-1902 - Billy Nicholson
1903-1906 - Riley Hern
1907-1910 - Percy LeSueur

1910-1918 - Georges Vezina
1919-1925 - Clint Benedict
1926-1929 - Roy Worters
1929-1934 - Charlie Gardiner
1935-1938 - Tiny Thompson
1939-1945 - Frank Brimsek

I'm less confident in amateur era goalie reputations.

 

[rmartin65]

I'll take a stab at early hockey

Thank you! I've been turning this over in my head all day, and was having some problems. Using your list as a framework-

1885-1893 - Tom Paton

He's certainly the most well known today, but I don't think we can say for certain about goalies this early. I know it is taking the easy road, but I think there is just too little information about goalies out there in that time period to make solid guesses.

Plus, he wasn't Montreal HC's starter in 1887, so that makes me wonder if he was really considered the best around that time period. William Hutchi(n?)son played 4 games, with Paton only playing about 1.5 (and only one I can definitely confirm he played goal- the other he was an injury substitute for a skater. Findlay, I think). Hutchi(n?)son, for what it is worth, was one of the Montreal Crystals players who jumped to Montreal HC for the 1887 season, along with Findlay, Stewart, and Cameron.

Paton had impressive longevity and played for the strongest team of the time. Was he the reason they ran the league? Maybe, but I tend to think he was more of a beneficiary of the team.

1894-1896 - Herbie Collins

I'm not sold here, either. He's the best in the world while Montreal HC is good/decent, then isn't for the next XXXX years of his career? Or was he carried by the rest of Montreal HC in 1894 and 1895.

1897-1898 - George Merritt

Maybe. Again, it's tough at this point, especially looking at multiple leagues.

1899-1902 - Billy Nicholson

I'm a big fan of Nicholson... but not this big of a fan

1903-1906 - Riley Hern

This is interesting to me. I'd actually push it left a year, as his 1901-02 WPHL season is probably the finest goaltender season (in terms of praise) I've seen so far. Granted, the 1901-02 WPHL wasn't the same quality as some of the other leagues, but he was probably the MVP that year. I don't know if his run makes it to 1906 though.

1907-1910 - Percy LeSueur

He's in the mix, for sure. I'd prefer Moran (through 1909, as I didn't go through 1910), but LeSueur isn't a bad choice by any stretch of the imagination.

As I started this post with, you laying it out helped me to formulate my thoughts. Here is my crack at it-

1885-1891: I'm punting here. I don't think we have the information we need to make a good determination. Paton is a good enough name I guess, but goalies in this time period are a bunch of questions marks for me.

1892-1894: Albert Morel

1895: Herb Collins

1896-1900: Frank Stocking

1901: Bouse Hutton

1902-1903: Riley Hern

1904-1909 (or ?): Paddy Moran

 

[Dr John Carlson]

I don't know if LeSueuer held the 'belt' for very long - or if he held it at all, honestly.

 

[The Panther]

I think Grant Fuhr was just about the best goalie around from 1983-84 (you can argue Barrasso that year, I guess, with a little Smith and Lemelin, and not to forget Tretiak was in his final year) through 1986-87. That's a four-season span for Fuhr, I think.

In 1987-88, Fuhr was overplayed and very inconsistent in the regular season... yet, bizarrely, was voted the Vezina despite its being his worst season since 1982-83. I'm sure, by 1987-88, Patrick Roy had overtaken him, especially in regular season.

I say Fuhr was tops from 1983-84 through 1986-87.

 

[buffalowing88]

A lot of Fuhr mentions...was he the best goalie or was he the "team that was winning with Gretzky starting goalie"...?

Is there much harm in just going from Smith to Roy...?

You read my mind. The more I sat on this, the more I didn't like Fuhr being give the crown for most of the 80s. Barrasso and Liut may need some recognition.

 

[buffalowing88]

I thought so too, but I was just wondering where? Gold medal in 2010, Cup final in 2011 and finishing 3rd in Vezina voting, Then falling off by his standards afterwards. I just am trying to see where his staying power was to fit in there. He's actually got a better shot between 2003 and 2011 or so but Brodeur is the man at this point, hard to kick him off that mantle.

I think I'd take him over Lundqvist but man...that is tough. I don't think you're wrong, just a matter of taste with goalies.

 

[Stanislasjc]

I think Grant Fuhr was just about the best goalie around from 1983-84 (you can argue Barrasso that year, I guess, with a little Smith and Lemelin, and not to forget Tretiak was in his final year) through 1986-87. That's a four-season span for Fuhr, I think.

In 1987-88, Fuhr was overplayed and very inconsistent in the regular season... yet, bizarrely, was voted the Vezina despite its being his worst season since 1982-83. I'm sure, by 1987-88, Patrick Roy had overtaken him, especially in regular season.

I say Fuhr was tops from 1983-84 through 1986-87.

I agree with this analysis and think it's cleaner to give Fuhr 87-88 as well. I think the thing that hurts Roy in 1987-88 was Brian Hayward was basically his 1B and had identical numbers.

Fuhr meanwhile proved in 87-88 he didn't need Moog. In his first season without his partner he played 74 games and led the league with 40 wins and 4 shutouts (lol). Plus people were probably looking to get him a Vezina I think, after so many years of being considered the best goalie, he was kind of due and there wasn't really a strong case for the other netminders from what I can see.

Even if Roy was sneakily better than Fuhr at that point he had yet to definitively prove it imo. Fuhr was getting the top assignments, the hardware, and Roy hadn't clearly become ST. PATRICK yet.

I think by title belt rules Fuhr still had it.