Best Fighter Who Could Play
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Dark Shadows
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Canadiens1958
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Gordie Howe Hat Trick
Someone took the time to research a myth:
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/blogs/2008/10/the_mystique_of_the_gordie
Interesting how the legend evolved. If the link worked you would read the following.
Demystifying the legend
One of hockey’s great researchers of all time, Paul Patskou shares with me a dogged pursuit to demystify some beliefs we all have about the game we love.
Myths like Stan Mikita and Bobby Hull being the first players to use curved sticks (Cy Denneny of the Ottawa Senators experimented with one in the 1920s), or how after Jacques Plante put on a mask, he never went in net without one again (he took it off later the same year he was struck).
And this brings us around to Mr. Hockey.
I have nothing personal against Gordie Howe and would rank him, like many others, in the top five players to ever lace up the blades. Howe was a great skater with a hard, accurate shot (heck, he could shoot both left and right). He was tough, hit for keeps and played the game the way many believe it should be played.
And to this day he remains a nice man and an excellent ambassador for the game of hockey.
However, like many of you, I’m curious where the phrase Gordie Howe hat trick came from. He was not the first player to register a goal, assist and fight in a game, that distinction belongs to Toronto Arena’s Harry Cameron who did so on Dec. 26, 1917. Yes, he did it on Boxing Day, how appropriate.
A surprising number
Howe didn’t accomplish the feat the most times, either. For a while Rick Tocchet held the unofficial record, which has since been broken, we believe, by both Shanahan and Iginla. In fact, Howe, as you will see below, only accomplished the “trick” twice.
Yes, twice.
Heck, Sidney Crosby is half way there already.
Perhaps the term is more symbolic than anything, indicative of a spirit as opposed to a fact.
Nonetheless, in order to try and put this issue to bed, here is the list of Howe’s confirmed NHL fights with brief analysis of some based on limited video evidence and newspaper reports.
We could find no evidence of any fights during his time in the World Hockey Association. There was one major penalty on record during a brawl on Nov. 1, 1976, that involved his son Marty, but that may have been a third-man-in call as Gordie threw the player off his son.
Oct. 20, 1946
Howe vs. Bill Ezinicki (Maple Leafs)
Ezinicki peppered Howe with jabs and stopped only when referee King Clancy said if he continued he’d be fined $25.
Nov. 11, 1947
Howe vs. Murray Henderson (Bruins)
Dec.10, 1947
Howe vs. Bill Ezinicki (Maple Leafs)
Both men swung freely until other skaters jumped in and piled on. It was compared to a Frank Tunney promoted tag team wrestling match at the Maple Leaf Gardens.
Feb. 3, 1948
Howe vs. Gaye Stewart (Blackhawks)
April 10, 1948
Howe vs. Howie Meeker (Maple Leafs)
Gordie fired three quick punches that all landed on Meeker’s head to end the fight.
Nov. 3, 1948
Howe vs. Gus Mortson (Maple Leafs)
This was during an all-star game. Mortson had lost his stick and hit Howe, who was charging hard to the net. Gordie got up and started flailing at his opponent. The officials broke it up before Mortson could muster much of a defence.
Jan. 30, 1949
Howe vs. Maurice Richard (Canadiens)
By all accounts this was a doozy. Both men crashed into each other and came up swinging. After being separated, both got free and started fighting again. Richard was still fuming as he went to the penalty box, but not before he fired off another punch, this one at Detroit winger Sid Abel that grazed referee King Clancy’s face. That punch earned the Rocket a misconduct.
Dec. 11, 1949
Howe vs. Fred Shero (Rangers)
The pair continued to fight in the penalty box until MSG police calmed things down
March 28, 1950
Howe vs. Bill Juzda (Maple Leafs)
Juzda picked Howe up and body slammed him after eating a punch.
Nov. 11, 1950
Howe vs. Bill Juzda (Maple Leafs)
The rematch saw Juzda out box and wrestle the bigger Howe.
Jan. 21, 1951
Howe vs. Fern Flaman (Maple Leafs)
Flaman was a tough fighter. This one started after Howe brought his stick down on Flaman’s shoulder.
Dec. 2, 1951
Howe vs. Fern Flaman (Maple Leafs)
Started as a hit from behind by Howe, followed by stick swinging. Flaman started firing off punches, Howe landed only one. Hall of Fame official George Hayes bear-hugged Flaman to end the fight.
Nov. 8, 1952
Howe vs. Tim Horton (Maple Leafs)
Gordie tried to fire off punches, but Horton body slammed him to the ice.
Oct. 10, 1953
Howe vs. Fern Flaman (Maple Leafs)
This fight started with high sticks and quickly turned into punches with both men landing. This was Howe’s first “Gordie Howe Hat Trick” as he assisted on the games first goal, scored by Leonard “Red” Kelly and then scored himself a few minutes later.
Nov. 22, 1953
Howe vs. Aldo Guidolin (Rangers)
This fight highlighted a very rough second period.
March 21, 1954
Howe vs. Ted Kennedy (Maple Leafs)
Howe’s high stick sliced Kennedy’s ear for eight stitches, which led to the Leaf lighting Howe up in a spirited fight. This was the second time Howe would record the his namesake’s hat trick as he scored the game’s first goal in the opening frame and then assisted on Ted Lindsay’s 25th and 26th goals of the season in the third period.
Dec. 16, 1956
Howe vs. Ron Ingram (Blackhawks)
Feb. 2, 1957
Howe vs. Larry Cahan (Rangers)
This was a battle. Both players started fighting as the buzzer sounded to start the second period. Each landed big blows and wrestled to the ice. Howe was busted open and needed stitches. Cahan received two five-minute majors for fighting to go along with a 10-minute misconduct and a $25 fine. Howe received a two-minute minor for high sticking and a five for fighting.
Feb. 1, 1959
Howe vs. Lou Fontinato (Rangers)
This was the fight that cemented Howe’s reputation as a tough guy. Fontinato, a native of Guelph, Ont., had a major league reputation as the NHL’s top policeman until he met Howe. Both men exchanged punches for a full minute until it was stopped with both men still on their feet. Fontinato’s nose was mangled and pushed so far over to the right side of his face it looked like he ran the 100-yard dash in a 90-yard gym.
March 15, 1962
Howe vs. Dick Meissner (Bruins)
A spirited bout by newspaper accounts. Marcel Pronovost and Charlie Burns also squared off.
Nov. 8, 1964
Howe vs. Ralph Backstrom (Canadiens)
Feb. 28, 1965
Howe vs. Noel Picard (Canadiens)
Interesting fight. Picard got Howe down to the ice in a corner and pulled his jersey over his head, landing two good punches in the process. He then let Howe up and Gordie fired off two solid rights that rocked the rookie who backed off and the fight was over.
Now, many would point at the Gordie Howe/Mike Walton skirmish at the 1968 all-star game, but that was not a full-blown fight as both men simply received roughing minors.
And there you have it.
2,450 games played.
1,767 regular season NHL games.
157 NHL playoff games.
419 WHA regular season games.
78 WHA playoff games.
32 seasons.
22 confirmed fights.
And two Gordie Howe hat tricks - Oct. 10, 1953 and March 21, 1954.
Is it time, perhaps, we looked at renaming this feat?
Someone took the time to research a myth:
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/blogs/2008/10/the_mystique_of_the_gordie
Interesting how the legend evolved. If the link worked you would read the following.
Demystifying the legend
One of hockey’s great researchers of all time, Paul Patskou shares with me a dogged pursuit to demystify some beliefs we all have about the game we love.
Myths like Stan Mikita and Bobby Hull being the first players to use curved sticks (Cy Denneny of the Ottawa Senators experimented with one in the 1920s), or how after Jacques Plante put on a mask, he never went in net without one again (he took it off later the same year he was struck).
And this brings us around to Mr. Hockey.
I have nothing personal against Gordie Howe and would rank him, like many others, in the top five players to ever lace up the blades. Howe was a great skater with a hard, accurate shot (heck, he could shoot both left and right). He was tough, hit for keeps and played the game the way many believe it should be played.
And to this day he remains a nice man and an excellent ambassador for the game of hockey.
However, like many of you, I’m curious where the phrase Gordie Howe hat trick came from. He was not the first player to register a goal, assist and fight in a game, that distinction belongs to Toronto Arena’s Harry Cameron who did so on Dec. 26, 1917. Yes, he did it on Boxing Day, how appropriate.
A surprising number
Howe didn’t accomplish the feat the most times, either. For a while Rick Tocchet held the unofficial record, which has since been broken, we believe, by both Shanahan and Iginla. In fact, Howe, as you will see below, only accomplished the “trick” twice.
Yes, twice.
Heck, Sidney Crosby is half way there already.
Perhaps the term is more symbolic than anything, indicative of a spirit as opposed to a fact.
Nonetheless, in order to try and put this issue to bed, here is the list of Howe’s confirmed NHL fights with brief analysis of some based on limited video evidence and newspaper reports.
We could find no evidence of any fights during his time in the World Hockey Association. There was one major penalty on record during a brawl on Nov. 1, 1976, that involved his son Marty, but that may have been a third-man-in call as Gordie threw the player off his son.
Oct. 20, 1946
Howe vs. Bill Ezinicki (Maple Leafs)
Ezinicki peppered Howe with jabs and stopped only when referee King Clancy said if he continued he’d be fined $25.
Nov. 11, 1947
Howe vs. Murray Henderson (Bruins)
Dec.10, 1947
Howe vs. Bill Ezinicki (Maple Leafs)
Both men swung freely until other skaters jumped in and piled on. It was compared to a Frank Tunney promoted tag team wrestling match at the Maple Leaf Gardens.
Feb. 3, 1948
Howe vs. Gaye Stewart (Blackhawks)
April 10, 1948
Howe vs. Howie Meeker (Maple Leafs)
Gordie fired three quick punches that all landed on Meeker’s head to end the fight.
Nov. 3, 1948
Howe vs. Gus Mortson (Maple Leafs)
This was during an all-star game. Mortson had lost his stick and hit Howe, who was charging hard to the net. Gordie got up and started flailing at his opponent. The officials broke it up before Mortson could muster much of a defence.
Jan. 30, 1949
Howe vs. Maurice Richard (Canadiens)
By all accounts this was a doozy. Both men crashed into each other and came up swinging. After being separated, both got free and started fighting again. Richard was still fuming as he went to the penalty box, but not before he fired off another punch, this one at Detroit winger Sid Abel that grazed referee King Clancy’s face. That punch earned the Rocket a misconduct.
Dec. 11, 1949
Howe vs. Fred Shero (Rangers)
The pair continued to fight in the penalty box until MSG police calmed things down
March 28, 1950
Howe vs. Bill Juzda (Maple Leafs)
Juzda picked Howe up and body slammed him after eating a punch.
Nov. 11, 1950
Howe vs. Bill Juzda (Maple Leafs)
The rematch saw Juzda out box and wrestle the bigger Howe.
Jan. 21, 1951
Howe vs. Fern Flaman (Maple Leafs)
Flaman was a tough fighter. This one started after Howe brought his stick down on Flaman’s shoulder.
Dec. 2, 1951
Howe vs. Fern Flaman (Maple Leafs)
Started as a hit from behind by Howe, followed by stick swinging. Flaman started firing off punches, Howe landed only one. Hall of Fame official George Hayes bear-hugged Flaman to end the fight.
Nov. 8, 1952
Howe vs. Tim Horton (Maple Leafs)
Gordie tried to fire off punches, but Horton body slammed him to the ice.
Oct. 10, 1953
Howe vs. Fern Flaman (Maple Leafs)
This fight started with high sticks and quickly turned into punches with both men landing. This was Howe’s first “Gordie Howe Hat Trick” as he assisted on the games first goal, scored by Leonard “Red” Kelly and then scored himself a few minutes later.
Nov. 22, 1953
Howe vs. Aldo Guidolin (Rangers)
This fight highlighted a very rough second period.
March 21, 1954
Howe vs. Ted Kennedy (Maple Leafs)
Howe’s high stick sliced Kennedy’s ear for eight stitches, which led to the Leaf lighting Howe up in a spirited fight. This was the second time Howe would record the his namesake’s hat trick as he scored the game’s first goal in the opening frame and then assisted on Ted Lindsay’s 25th and 26th goals of the season in the third period.
Dec. 16, 1956
Howe vs. Ron Ingram (Blackhawks)
Feb. 2, 1957
Howe vs. Larry Cahan (Rangers)
This was a battle. Both players started fighting as the buzzer sounded to start the second period. Each landed big blows and wrestled to the ice. Howe was busted open and needed stitches. Cahan received two five-minute majors for fighting to go along with a 10-minute misconduct and a $25 fine. Howe received a two-minute minor for high sticking and a five for fighting.
Feb. 1, 1959
Howe vs. Lou Fontinato (Rangers)
This was the fight that cemented Howe’s reputation as a tough guy. Fontinato, a native of Guelph, Ont., had a major league reputation as the NHL’s top policeman until he met Howe. Both men exchanged punches for a full minute until it was stopped with both men still on their feet. Fontinato’s nose was mangled and pushed so far over to the right side of his face it looked like he ran the 100-yard dash in a 90-yard gym.
March 15, 1962
Howe vs. Dick Meissner (Bruins)
A spirited bout by newspaper accounts. Marcel Pronovost and Charlie Burns also squared off.
Nov. 8, 1964
Howe vs. Ralph Backstrom (Canadiens)
Feb. 28, 1965
Howe vs. Noel Picard (Canadiens)
Interesting fight. Picard got Howe down to the ice in a corner and pulled his jersey over his head, landing two good punches in the process. He then let Howe up and Gordie fired off two solid rights that rocked the rookie who backed off and the fight was over.
Now, many would point at the Gordie Howe/Mike Walton skirmish at the 1968 all-star game, but that was not a full-blown fight as both men simply received roughing minors.
And there you have it.
2,450 games played.
1,767 regular season NHL games.
157 NHL playoff games.
419 WHA regular season games.
78 WHA playoff games.
32 seasons.
22 confirmed fights.
And two Gordie Howe hat tricks - Oct. 10, 1953 and March 21, 1954.
Is it time, perhaps, we looked at renaming this feat?
Last edited:
Dark Shadows
Registered User
Your link is broken.
If it is regarding how little Howe actually fought, or his "Hat trick" only being done a few times, we already know.
Ward Cornell
Registered User
- Dec 22, 2007
- 6,402
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Best player that could fight or maybe the best fighter that could play that I saw was Bob Probert.
Yes, I saw Gordie play plenty but I had never seen him fight. Maybe that alone is a testament to his pugilistic skill!
Canadiens1958
Registered User
This and That
The above plus if you read the accounts of the fights Gordie Howe was far from undefeated.
Given that Henri Richard did fairly well against a Bruin trio that included Fern Flaman in a brawl in Boston, certain positions should be revisited.
The above plus if you read the accounts of the fights Gordie Howe was far from undefeated.
Given that Henri Richard did fairly well against a Bruin trio that included Fern Flaman in a brawl in Boston, certain positions should be revisited.
Probert's a good answer. He certainly had talent, and proved it one memorable playoff...BUT drugs and alcohol doubtless hampered his on ice production, sans pugilism.
Cam Neely could certainly score & fight...Ditto Orr, Howe, Hull, Clark...
Cam Neely could certainly score & fight...Ditto Orr, Howe, Hull, Clark...
Deadbolt401
Registered User
They fought five times and O'Reilly clearly won two and Gillies clearly won two, the other wasn't much of a fight that's probably a draw. In Gillies' second win, O'Reilly bounced his head off the ice dazing and supposedly concussing him and Gillies got an unfair jump off the hop. Later that game O'Reilly came back and beat up Gillies pretty good, this time in a fair scrap. As a whole, Gillies hardly kicked O'Reilly's ass.
As for the OP's question, how about the best hockey player ever? Bobby Orr could really fight when he wanted to.
Heat McManus
Registered User
Ward Cornell
Registered User
- Dec 22, 2007
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Here's probably the most famous Robinson fight vs Dave Shultz. Apparently Robinson left the bench to go to the dressing room to have some repairs done on his skates. While his skates were off he heard the commotion and knew that he was needed on the ice. He just put the skates on without tieing them up then he hunted down Shulktz for the fight. (IMHO it really wasn't much of fight but it did signify that the Habs weren't going to be pushed around by the Flyers.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZmRWz_Dyk0
Another example of Robinson vs the Flyers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKd4HJNSbQg
and against Ted Irvine of the Rangers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJC2lx5bpBM&feature=related
and he could play:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9rp-ewJ8mI&feature=related
Hey Milbury....you should have thrown a shoe at him!
Kevin27nyi
Registered User
- Aug 5, 2009
- 19,886
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Ward Cornell
Registered User
- Dec 22, 2007
- 6,402
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Denis Potvin and Wendel Clark should also be considered.
It's not so much as destroying or even winning the fight thats really important but showing up for it is!!
It's not so much as destroying or even winning the fight thats really important but showing up for it is!!
SirGoose
honk honk
Jumptheshark
Rebooting myself
gravytrain6t
Registered User
Two members of two great lines. Might as well take the question a step further.
The Lilco Line (Gillies, Trottier, Bossy) vs the Production Line (Lindsay, Abel, Howe).
Which line would you take? Without getting off topic, I'll just say both for now.
Being a Rangers fan I'll throw Fotiu's name in there. And IMO, he should be mentioned. He was no goon. A few more names which come to mind include Wendel Clark and Tie Domi in Toronto. Lecavalier and Iginla will drop the gloves also. Rick Tocchet is another good choice.
But I think hands down, "Mr. Hockey" is the winner. Really there is no comparison IMO. He invented the famous "Gordie Howe Hat Trick (goal, assist, and a fight)."
Jumptheshark
Rebooting myself
Howe fought in his early years in the league but then most players learnt it was better to not go toe to toe with the big fella.
Leapin' Louie Fontinato forgot and thought he was tougher than Howe after reading his own press clippings - he paid the price.
And the aftermath. BTW Leapin' Louie Fontinato tried to claim he won the fight.
Fontinato destroyed face (broken nose, broken cheekbone and dislocated jaw) was featured in Life Magazine when he had his picture taken in hospital where they were putting his face back together. Howe dislocated a finger.
Fontinato was one of the bigger guys in the NHL at the time at 6'1" and 200 pounds.
He was heavily promoted as the toughest guy in the NHL, pictures of him with his shirt off and flexing his muscles, etc. He led the NHL in PIM's in both 1955-56 and 1957-58. He was the first player ever to receive more than 200 penalty minutes in a season.
He usual tactic was to get in a sneaky quick shot and follow up with a flurry of punches.
The February 1, 1959 fearsome beating that Gordie Howe laid on Rangers Leapin' Lou Fontinato, so-called because he left his feet.
When delivering body checks (some claim the "Leapin'" referred to his antics when called for a penalty when he would jump up and down while berating the referee).
Howe had just decked Eddie (The Entertainer) Shack, then with the Rangers, with a thunderous check and was about to be sucker punched by NYR enforcer Lou Fontinato. Big mistake on the part of Leapin' Louie as Red Kelly yelled a warning to Howe who slipped the punch, took a couple of glancing blows and then set to work.
I have read accounts of people who were at the game and of the game officials. The referee, linesmen and other players were in virtual shock as Howe demolished one of the most feared NHL heavyweights in short order. One of Howe's teammates noted in awe that it was so vicious any one nearby could hear "whomp, whomp, whomp" as Fontinato took punches to the face. Another witness described the sound like the beating of a drum. One of the linesman in awe said Gordie's punches hitting Lou's face sounded like an axe chopping a piece of wood.
Howe seldom spoke of his fights but of this Howe later said, "that honker of his was right there and I drilled it."
trickster
Maple Leaf Lane Forever
I like Neely - but he fought a lot of guys like Chiasson, Foligno, Diduck... and while he did fight Tiger Williams and was a fantastic goal scorer he lacked some tilts with the big boys like Peluso or Probert that Clark had. An amazing stat for Wendel Clark's early career was 59 fights in his first two seasons (including post-season) next to his 82 goals in the same time). Still wonder why he is a god in Toronto?
Neely - an amazing player, but in this category I put Clark ahead of him... You know, as a centre I'd have liked to have Clark and Neely as my wingers.
Actually - now that I think about it I don't know that Neely or Clark should qualify for this category... They belong in scorers who could fight rather than best fighter who could play...
My vote goes to Patrick Roy's kid. Wait - he couldn't play... How about Patrick Roy or Felix Potvin (remember Hextall?)
PS - Hard to believe Clark's last fight was against Brad Isbister... Clark must have knocked the potential out of him
.
VanIslander
A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
- Sep 4, 2004
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This is NOT the "Best player who could fight" thread. 
This thread is about the player whose primary role is fighting but who can also play, to wit, the BEST FIGHTER who could play.
Dave Schultz? Bob Probert? Tiger Williams? All three are clear candidates.
"Knuckles" Nilan for a five year stretch seemed equal parts fighter and player so dunno if counts.
This thread is about the player whose primary role is fighting but who can also play, to wit, the BEST FIGHTER who could play.
Dave Schultz? Bob Probert? Tiger Williams? All three are clear candidates.
"Knuckles" Nilan for a five year stretch seemed equal parts fighter and player so dunno if counts.
