Best Career Projection - Stützle / Point / J Hughes / E Pettersson

[Habsrule]

You're right. Pat Maroon over Panarin, no doubt.

Not even the same conversation. What Point has done in the playoffs way surpasses what Maroon has done in the playoffs.

 

[J T Money]

many insignificant players have multiple cups. they have not had great careers. Basing the greatness of their careers on number of cups is silly. For example hundrds of players who no one remembers have cups. But just about all hockey fans remember Perreault and Dionne. So who had the better careers? Remember ,they are not golfers or tennis players.. They cannot win a cup by themselves

I bet if those great players won a Cup that they’d feel their careers were even better than without it.

Imagine thinking that winning a Stanley Cup is meaningless

 

[Buck Naked]

Not even the same conversation. What Point has done in the playoffs way surpasses what Maroon has done in the playoffs.

Yeah, the comment was about cups though, not points in the playoffs.

 

[Buck Naked]

I bet if those great players won a Cup that they’d feel their careers were even better than without it.

Imagine thinking that winning a Stanley Cup is meaningless

He didn't say cups were meaningless. It's just a dumb way to try to measure individual success. I mean, no player was ever credited with winning the President's Trophy and rightly so. Team awards are team awards. No player ever won the Stanley Cup, only teams did.

 

[J T Money]

He didn't say cups were meaningless. It's just a dumb way to try to measure individual success. I mean, no player was ever credited with winning the President's Trophy and rightly so. Team awards are team awards. No player ever won the Stanley Cup, only teams did.

Individual success is not the same as who had a better career though. Winning Cups definitely makes one’s career better than an equal player who did not win Cups. Would winning Olympic Gold medal also be a dumb way? What about winning gold at the World Juniors? It gets brought up every time when deciding if a player is a HOF candidate…but suddenly it’s not a good way to measure who’s had a better career?

It’d be different if Point was a scrub 4th liner who keeps the bench warm and was a passenger for both of his Cups…but he wasn’t.

It’s why I started posting in this thread saying it’s not fair to the other 3 players because he’s already accomplished things that most players (and organizations) have not and will not do.

 

[bert]

Jack played the entire season his 2nd year and only missed eight games his rookie year

Also Jack Hughes scored 7 points above PPG in 49, so if he were to play 70+ and project that forward, id argue itd be real hard for Stuetzle to match that considering he wont have nearly as much oppourtunity as Jack will have, he practically is NJs #1 offensive option without fail. yes Bratt had the best year but if Jack played that amount of games he likely breaks 82 points.

The argument for Jack being ahead of Stuetzle is that his first season (and 2nd ruined by covid) was poor tire traction at the start of the race, but Jacks car has more horsepower and so will catch and pass Stuetzle in the D+? Debate

Stuetzle's linear climb in development likely wont be as steep as Jacks considering Tim started in a pro league in Europe while Jack was playing 18-22yos four months before his first NHL game.

This is all opinion based and full of excuses. The entire sens team got covid last year too. Everyone is playing by the same rules. There is no proof or facts being presented. Stutzle is entering his third season now, if he contunues to produce like the second half of last year at the minimum he paces Hughes third season. Hughes has been injured 2 of 3 seasons unfortunately. I hope he can stay healthy but at the pro level its yet to be seen. Stutzle is a year older and upgraded his linemates, his development has been on an upwards trajectory since he entered the league nothing to suggest he is any further or behind Hughes. The development path of how the players got there has no bearing on their performance it's an excuse. Hughes is one year older. In my opinion they are two of the leagues brightest stars and the best players in each if their draft classes. They play a similar style and it's yet to be seen who the superior player ends up being. But I'll say it again there is no evidence that suggests Hughes is superior or has separated himself. If anything the useable data favors Stutzle.

 

[bert]

It was well known even before Hughes got drafted that he wasn't NHL ready. You can't judge Hughes based on his first seasons because his body wasn't ready. It was the opposite for Stutzle being he was more NHL ready. Stutzle will be an insane player don't get me wrong, but when you watch Hughes the dude just screams elite talent. He does things that not many players in the league can do.

The exact same thing can be said about Stutzle. He also entered the league undersized.

 

[rogking65]

Maroon has had an amazing career. Most players would love to win a Cup. I’m sure McDavid would love to win a Cup more than a Hart or Art Ross.

You seem to have the thread confused with who you think will be better as opposed to having a better career.

If Cups don’t matter whatsoever…why do you watch the NHL or hockey at all?

you also have to remember that this is their job and livelihood. I think Mcdavid would take his awards and resulting big contracts over no awards and several cups. I do not think he would trade that for Maroons cups and lifetime earnings.

 

[bebl]

He didn't say cups were meaningless. It's just a dumb way to try to measure individual success. I mean, no player was ever credited with winning the President's Trophy and rightly so. Team awards are team awards. No player ever won the Stanley Cup, only teams did.

But also you can't win the cup without your key players outplaying or play evenly with opposite teams stars. Thats why for example players like Joe Thornton are and will be criticized because he was monster on regular season but had only few good playoff showings. Point has been at his best form when playing in the toughest and meaningful games of the season. That is very rare ability.

 

[McDuffz88]

The exact same thing can be said about Stutzle. He also entered the league undersized.

Being 6 foot 1 at 187 pounds isn't exactly undersized. Compare that to Hughes who weighed 160 pounds. Stutzle was also said to be NHL ready while it was well known Hughes was not. That's why Kakko got so much hype that year. It was because Kakko was thought to be NHL ready while Hughes would take a year or 2 to reach his potential. I'm also not disagreeing with you about Stutzle being elite. He's going to be an amazing player. It's just the skills Hughes has can put him in the top 5 players in the entire league. This isn't to take away anything from Stutzle who is going to be a huge star. It's just that's how crazy Hughes can be.

 

[Tusks Up]

@Golden_Jet id probably laugh at responses too when Im proven horribly wrong

I can tell you love doing nothing but telling others what they know and then disappearing when proven a fool

Tell a Devils fan again how they dont know about Jack Hughes when you just discovered for the first time that the USNDTP plays college teams. Im sure you tuned into a ton if DEL games too, huh? Lmfao

Dont bother responding btw, it wont pop up for me. Time shouldnt be wasted on someone such as yourself

 

[Tusks Up]

This is all opinion based and full of excuses. The entire sens team got covid last year too. Everyone is playing by the same rules. There is no proof or facts being presented. Stutzle is entering his third season now, if he contunues to produce like the second half of last year at the minimum he paces Hughes third season. Hughes has been injured 2 of 3 seasons unfortunately. I hope he can stay healthy but at the pro level its yet to be seen. Stutzle is a year older and upgraded his linemates, his development has been on an upwards trajectory since he entered the league nothing to suggest he is any further or behind Hughes. The development path of how the players got there has no bearing on their performance it's an excuse. Hughes is one year older. In my opinion they are two of the leagues brightest stars and the best players in each if their draft classes. They play a similar style and it's yet to be seen who the superior player ends up being. But I'll say it again there is no evidence that suggests Hughes is superior or has separated himself. If anything the useable data favors Stutzle.

Theres nothing opinion based about playing the entire 2nd season and missing only 8 games his rookie year. It means his injury issues are overblown because of last year

You can parrot further about being injured two of three seasons but it isnt true. Maybe you didnt watch much hockey during covid and I could understand that, but playing 117 of a possible 125 games his first two years shortened by covid is what Id call a healthy player.

 

[Golden_Jet]

@Golden_Jet id probably laugh at responses too when Im proven horribly wrong

I can tell you love doing nothing but telling others what they know and then disappearing when proven a fool

Tell a Devils fan again how they dont know about Jack Hughes when you just discovered for the first time that the USNDTP plays college teams. Im sure you tuned into a ton if DEL games too, huh? Lmfao

Dont bother responding btw, it wont pop up for me. Time shouldnt be wasted on someone such as yourself

News to me College plays in June, I’m aware they play during hockey season lol.
Oh and responding to mess yup when reading.
When you come back show me The U18 summer schedule, that you claimed Hughes played for 4 months before his First NHL game., and how he did in them.

Theres nothing opinion based about playing the entire 2nd season and missing only 8 games his rookie year. It means his injury issues are overblown because of last year

You can parrot further about being injured two of three seasons but it isnt true. Maybe you didnt watch much hockey during covid and I could understand that, but playing 117 of a possible 125 games his first two years shortened by covid is what Id call a healthy player.

Nice goal post move, with the ya buts, who cares how many games he missed in year 3 , look at first 2 years.
Only took you a few weeks on forum to embarrass yourself.

 

[Golden_Jet]

@Golden_Jet id probably laugh at responses too when Im proven horribly wrong

I can tell you love doing nothing but telling others what they know and then disappearing when proven a fool

Tell a Devils fan again how they dont know about Jack Hughes when you just discovered for the first time that the USNDTP plays college teams. Im sure you tuned into a ton if DEL games too, huh? Lmfao

Dont bother responding btw, it wont pop up for me. Time shouldnt be wasted on someone such as yourself

 

[J T Money]

you also have to remember that this is their job and livelihood. I think Mcdavid would take his awards and resulting big contracts over no awards and several cups. I do not think he would trade that for Maroons cups and lifetime earnings.

Good thing I never once said McDavid would trade his contracts and all his awards then. I stated that it’s very likely he’d prefer a Stanley Cup over an Art Ross or a Hart…not erase all of them and swap with Maroon.

But if you want an example of how winning Cups can get you higher earnings…Brayden Point signed a 9.5mil x 8 years because of his playoff performances and resulting back to back Cups.

Seems you’ll have to find another way to discredit winning Stanley Cups.

 

[rogking65]

Good thing I never once said McDavid would trade his contracts and all his awards then. I stated that it’s very likely he’d prefer a Stanley Cup over an Art Ross or a Hart…not erase all of them and swap with Maroon.

But if you want an example of how winning Cups can get you higher earnings…Brayden Point signed a 9.5mil x 8 years because of his playoff performances and resulting back to back Cups.

Seems you’ll have to find another way to discredit winning Stanley Cups.

many,many players have won a cup...very select few have won a scoring championship.Who wil lbe remembered more in the future. The scoring champ of course. Many great players have not won cups ,and many fringe players have

 

[Habsrule]

Yeah, the comment was about cups though, not points in the playoffs.

I’m looking at their whole body of work. Recent example would be Matthews Vs McKinnon. Two very close guys and it could be a coin toss as to who the better player is. Someone could argue either way and I wouldn’t object. Yet for me Matthews has multiple first round exits and MacKinnon was instrumental to the Avs winning the Cup. I’ll take MacKinnon based upon that.

 

[Buck Naked]

I’m looking at their whole body of work. Recent example would be Matthews Vs McKinnon. Two very close guys and it could be a coin toss as to who the better player is. Someone could argue either way and I wouldn’t object. Yet for me Matthews has multiple first round exits and MacKinnon was instrumental to the Avs winning the Cup. I’ll take MacKinnon based upon that.

They're not close, come on! One has four major individual awards, the other one got zero. If you were to summarize their careers today, Matthews is miles ahead.

People really are going to town with this cup argument.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Best is a tough word to apply a judgement to, depends on how you weight personal achievements vs Cups, etc.

In future rankings 15 years from now, who will be at the top?

Prob Stutzle.

Pettersson has kind of stagnated
Point is what he is, a very solid 70-PPG C
Hughes could be better if he wasn’t a literal man child and would learn to stop playing like one

I could see Hughes having a similar PPG as Stutzle but mostly always missing games

The only one I would immediately say no to for Raymond is Hughes.

 

[nbwingsfan]

It was well known even before Hughes got drafted that he wasn't NHL ready. You can't judge Hughes based on his first seasons because his body wasn't ready. It was the opposite for Stutzle being he was more NHL ready. Stutzle will be an insane player don't get me wrong, but when you watch Hughes the dude just screams elite talent. He does things that not many players in the league can do.

His body still isn’t ready and unless he changes up his game it’ll stay that way for a while

They're not close, come on! One has four major individual awards, the other one got zero. If you were to summarize their careers today, Matthews is miles ahead.

People really are going to town with this cup argument.

Matthews has been pretty overall pathetic in the playoffs. I’m not sure he’s anywhere close to miles ahead

 

[Buck Naked]

Matthews has been pretty overall pathetic in the playoffs. I’m not sure he’s anywhere close to miles ahead

It's still 4-0 when it comes to major individual awards. Producing well in the playoffs and winning the cup on a stacked team does not take that away. How many players do you think win four major individual awards during their careers? How many are instrumental on cup winning teams? I promise you one number is far bigger than the other.

 

[nbwingsfan]

It's still 4-0 when it comes to major individual awards. Producing well in the playoffs and winning the cup on a stacked team does not take that away. How many players do you think win four major individual awards during their careers? How many are instrumental on cup winning teams? I promise you one number is far bigger than the other.

Marner, Tavares, Nylander, Rielly.

Leafs fans constantly boast about how amazing their team is. Yet they can’t get out of the first round. Would you like me to bring up Matthews playoffs stats… or even worse, his elimination game stats?

 

[Buck Naked]

Marner, Tavares, Nylander, Rielly.

Leafs fans constantly boast about how amazing their team is. Yet they can’t get out of the first round. Would you like me to bring up Matthews playoffs stats… or even worse, his elimination game stats?

They sure do, and I have no stake in that game. I like MacKinnon a lot more as a player but I still wouldn't close my eyes to the fact that what Matthews' done so far in his career is far more impressive than what MacKinnon's done. The ultimate goal for any player in the NHL is of course to win the cup, however, that's not what makes people remember you. Being the best, winning awards, leaving a legacy is how you become great as an individual player. A cup sure helps in some arguments but that's only when you have two equally accomplished players in terms of hardware. That's why, in 20 years, people will still talk about Marcell Dionne as one of the greats and not so much about Bryan Bickell and Ondrej Palat.

 

[nbwingsfan]

They sure do, and I have no stake in that game. I like MacKinnon a lot more as a player but I still wouldn't close my eyes to the fact that what Matthews' done so far in his career is far more impressive than what MacKinnon's done. The ultimate goal for any player in the NHL is of course to win the cup, however, that's not what makes people remember you. Being the best, winning awards, leaving a legacy is how you become great as an individual player. A cup sure helps in some arguments but that's only when you have two equally accomplished players in terms of hardware. That's why, in 20 years, people will still talk about Marcell Dionne as one of the greats and not so much about Bryan Bickell and Ondrej Palat.

You’re going to two very different extremes. If Matthews keeps up what he’s been doing he will be similar to Thornton who was one of the best players of 2000-2015(ish) but will most be remembered for never delivering in the playoffs when it mattered

Matthews is well on the same track currently

 

[Buck Naked]

You’re going to two very different extremes. If Matthews keeps up what he’s been doing he will be similar to Thornton who was one of the best players of 2000-2015(ish) but will most be remembered for never delivering in the playoffs when it mattered

Matthews is well on the same track currently

That's maybe how you remembers him. He's still a 100% lock for the HHoF and will first and foremost be remembered as one of the best players of the Cap era. Anything else is just silly.