Bedard, Michkov, or Celebrini: Who would you build around?

Who would you build your team around?


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WhiskeyYerTheDevils

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Look, I went through the Kane and Toews era and have always maintained that, when the Hawks were in their prime and winning cups, Toews was always the more important. So I can understand the draw of Celebrini over Bedard (though I don't agree with it, at least not yet).

But I honestly don't even see the argument for Michkov over Bedard unless literally the only thing you are going by is how many points they have scored this season (which is down to 3 points).
There are reasons beyond points that someone might prefer Michkov to Bedard. For instance, Michkov is waaaay stronger on pucks down low, he's so much harder to knock off the puck. And he has proven to be much more effective at getting to scoring areas around the net. He also plays with a much higher battle level and feistiness. He's like a mini Crosby in these ways.
 

Chelios

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There are reasons beyond points that someone might prefer Michkov to Bedard. For instance, Michkov is waaaay stronger on pucks down low, he's so much harder to knock off the puck. And he has proven to be much more effective at getting to scoring areas around the net. He also plays with a much higher battle level and feistiness. He's like a mini Crosby in these ways.

Good to see your Bedard alarm is working. Everything you said is debatable at best, and is more than outweighed by Bedard's body of work to date.
 

WhiskeyYerTheDevils

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Good to see your Bedard alarm is working.
It's actually a stupid post alarm. You must have triggered it.
Everything you said is debatable at best, and is more than outweighed by Bedard's body of work to date.
It's not at all debatable, have you watched Michkov play? Dude is a tank on the puck. He can hold off defenders for extended periods of time below the goal line. Bedard is much more of a perimeter player.
 

Mathieukferland

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I don’t know anything about analytics and am being a hypocrite by posting this because I don’t like them, but this seems not bad
 

Chelios

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It's actually a stupid post alarm. You must have triggered it.
Sick burn.

It's not at all debatable, have you watched Michkov play? Dude is a tank on the puck. He can hold off defenders for extended periods of time below the goal line. Bedard is much more of a perimeter player.

Yes I have watched Michkov play, obviously not as much as Bedard, but there is nothing in my viewings of him that suggests he is so much more physical/feisty that it overcomes Bedard's body of work to date in picking between the two.
 

WhiskeyYerTheDevils

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Yes I have watched Michkov play, obviously not as much as Bedard, but there is nothing in my viewings of him that suggests he is so much more physical/feisty that it overcomes Bedard's body of work to date in picking between the two.
It's not just about being physical or feisty, its about his strength on the puck, and ability to hold off defenders and win battles along the boards and around the net. He's already in the top 90th percentile among NHL forwards in that ability IMO, while Bedard is one of the easiest players to knock of the puck in the league.

His ability behind the net and in the corners is reminiscent of Crosby/Forsberg, though he's obviously smaller than those two. But his approach his similar. He's a beast on the puck.

That's a very legitimate reason to take him over Bedard.
 
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Crow

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It's not just about being physical or feisty, its about his strength on the puck, and ability to hold off defenders and win battles along the boards and around the net. He's already in the top 90th percentile among NHL forwards in that ability IMO, while Bedard is one of the easiest players to knock of the puck in the league.

His ability behind the net and in the corners is reminiscent of Crosby/Forsberg, though he's obviously smaller than those two. But his approach his similar. He's a beast on the puck.

That's a very legitimate reason to take him over Bedard.
Bedard is 19 and Michkov 20. How strong both of them are on the puck is almost certainly going to change a great deal.

The recency bias is almost comedic itt. People changing their votes after a couple games lol.
 

Chelios

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It's not just about being physical or feisty, its about his strength on the puck, and ability to hold off defenders and win battles along the boards and around the net. He's already in the top 90th percentile among NHL forwards in that ability IMO, while Bedard is one of the easiest players to knock of the puck in the league.

His ability behind the net and in the corners is reminiscent of Crosby/Forsberg, though he's obviously smaller than those two. But his approach his similar. He's a beast on the puck.

That's a very legitimate reason to take him over Bedard.
No, it really isn’t. One very specific skill, that is subjective at best, is not a legitimate reason to take a player in Michkov who simply doesn’t have the resume that Bedard has at the NHL.
 

WhiskeyYerTheDevils

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No, it really isn’t. One very specific skill, that is subjective at best, is not a legitimate reason to take a player in Michkov who simply doesn’t have the resume that Bedard has at the NHL.
It's more than just "a very specific skill". It's a broad capability that some of the best players in the history of the sport have used to anchor their play. And it's not like it's his only talent. He's got incredible vision and poise, and his timing around the net is insane.

Bedard's NHL resume isn't even that impressive. He had a hot start to his rookie season, but since then he's only got 19 goals in his last 84 games while being a terrible 200 foot player and cheating constantly for offense. He brought that game to the world championships and ended up dropping from the 1st line to 13th forward/4th line.

Considering his usage and overall play, Michkov's rookie season is at least as impressive as anything we've seen from Bedard.
 

Regal

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No, it really isn’t. One very specific skill, that is subjective at best, is not a legitimate reason to take a player in Michkov who simply doesn’t have the resume that Bedard has at the NHL.

What NHL resume though? Being a 70ish point defensive liability? Not that Bedard isn’t going to be great, but I don’t think he’s proven anything to the point where we shouldn’t be mostly comparing play styles and ability and how their games translate to the NHL going forward. Bedard struggling to get to the high danger areas so far is a legit question for how high his ceiling is
 
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WhiskeyYerTheDevils

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Bedard is 19 and Michkov 20.
Michkov turned 20 4 days ago lol.
How strong both of them are on the puck is almost certainly going to change a great deal.
We don't know how they will develop, but considering that right now Michkov is leaps and bounds ahead of Bedard in that area, I'd be willing to bet that will never change, or even be close.
 

Chelios

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What NHL resume though? Being a 70ish point defensive liability? Not that Bedard isn’t going to be great, but I don’t think he’s proven anything to the point where we shouldn’t be mostly comparing play styles and ability and how their games translate to the NHL going forward. Bedard struggling to get to the high danger areas so far is a legit question for how high his ceiling is
NHL resume as in leading his team, by a wide margin in scoring as the youngest player in the league, winning the Calder trophy and again leading his team, by far, in scoring despite his “slump”. Also weird talking about his defensive game when I am comparing him to Michkov not Celebrini.
 

villacco

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Michkov seems like a genius on ice.
Celebrini like the potential most complete forward and a leader to multiple cups
Bedard very skilled with high scoring potential, but I see much higher upside in importance for winning cups in the first two players.

Celebrini (very close ahead) -> Michkov -> Bedard (not close at all)
 

Chelios

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It's more than just "a very specific skill". It's a broad capability that some of the best players in the history of the sport have used to anchor their play. And it's not like it's his only talent. He's got incredible vision and poise, and his timing around the net is insane.

Bedard's NHL resume isn't even that impressive. He had a hot start to his rookie season, but since then he's only got 19 goals in his last 84 games while being a terrible 200 foot player and cheating constantly for offense. He brought that game to the world championships and ended up dropping from the 1st line to 13th forward/4th line.

Considering his usage and overall play, Michkov's rookie season is at least as impressive as anything we've seen from Bedard.
Wait, so we need to discount Bedards start to his rookie season to… checks notes… compare it solely to Michkov’s start to his rookie season?

Maybe if you took a break between cycling through Bedard thread tabs on your browser to think about things, you might realize how ridiculous that is.
 

WhiskeyYerTheDevils

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NHL resume as in leading his team, by a wide margin in scoring as the youngest player in the league, winning the Calder trophy and again leading his team, by far, in scoring despite his “slump”. Also weird talking about his defensive game when I am comparing him to Michkov not Celebrini.
Michkov has been very solid defensively, especially in his past 20 games or so.

Wait, so we need to discount Bedards start to his rookie season to… checks notes… compare it solely to Michkov’s start to his rookie season?

Maybe if you took a break between cycling through Bedard thread tabs on your browser to think about things, you might realize how ridiculous that is.
You're the one who brought up Bedard's NHL resume, which is really not that great. Even his "hot start" was only 23 points in his first 28 games, trailing Michkov.

All we have from Michkov is his first 28 games, which is arguably a better stretch than any we've seen from Bedard.
 

Chelios

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You're the one who brought up Bedard's NHL resume, which is really not that great. Even his "hot start" was only 23 points in his first 28 games, trailing Michkov.

All we have from Michkov is his first 28 games, which is arguably a better stretch than any we've seen from Bedard.

Again, Bedard led his team by a wide margin in scoring as the youngest player in the league last year, won the Calder, and is now again leading his team in scoring by even more, despite his “slump”, all while being younger that Michkov.
 

Miro4Norris

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Im not sure what do I vote in this, but I always said passing Michkov in draft would be the biggest mistake SJ, Utah and Montreal GM's, Perhaps even Anaheim and Columbus will ever made. Not even 2 years has passed and it's obvious already
 
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WhiskeyYerTheDevils

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Again, Bedard led his team by a wide margin in scoring as the youngest player in the league last year, won the Calder, and is now again leading his team in scoring by even more, despite his “slump”, all while being younger that Michkov.
That's really not that impressive of a feat considering who was competing with for the team lead. Especially when you consider how poor his 200 foot game was.

Michkov's first 28 games has at least as impressive, if not more so. He's doing it in a reduced role while playing a complete game.
 

ReimanSum1908

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Im not sure what do I vote in this, but I always said passing Michkov in draft would be the biggest mistake SJ, Utah and Montreal GM's, Perhaps even Anaheim and Columbus will ever made. Not even 2 years has passed and it's obvious already
I think that every sane hockey fan was saying precisely that; my only qualification at the time was that Chicago might be the only team that didn't regret passing on Michkov.

Now it seems clear that they should as well.
 

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