Has Connor Bedard quietly became underrated ?

MuckOG

Registered User
May 18, 2012
15,865
5,841
Jagr had Lemieux and a powerhouse team.

Time hasn't even started on Bedard. Mackinnon didn't do much in his first four years. Nobody remembers that now.

Would you consider McKinnon to be "generational"? I don't. If the argument is "Bedard is the next MacKinnon", I wouldn't have a problem with that (although I think he can be a little better than MacKinnon)

The OP is convinced that Bedard is generational. I don't, yet.
 

WhiskeyYerTheDevils

yer leadin me astray
Sponsor
Apr 27, 2005
35,385
34,100
I agree with you but who would be his Center?

**

The other night, they showed Bedard's pretty mom in the stands. She looks like she's aged 10 years since I'd seen her last. You could tell she's feeling the weight of him not excelling.

Again, it was nice to see him get not 1 but 2 points. He needed the confidence boost - and the bounce in his step.
I would put him on a line with Mackinnon and Crosby

Hyman - McDavid - Marner
Crosby - Mackinnon - Bedard/Jarvis
Marchand - Point - Stone
Konecny - Barzal - Reinhart
Jarvis/Bedard
 
Last edited:

Lafleurs Guy

Guuuuuuuy!
Jul 20, 2007
78,735
50,154
Would you consider McKinnon to be "generational"? I don't.
No. But it's an example of how it takes some players longer to take off than others.

I'd consider Lafleur generational. He had a short career and it took him a while to get there but six straight years of 50/100 had never been done before and has only been replicated by two others (Yzerman just missed out on being a third.) Lafleur was the best player in hockey for half a decade. A long period of dominance for the game. His game after 1980 fell apart with injuries, politics and other crap. So I get if people don't count him as generational but he and Bossy are about as good as you can get without being Gretz/Lemieux.

Another example: Dominik Hasek. Many people consider him generational. He didn't really become a starter until 11 years after he was drafted.
If the argument is "Bedard is the next MacKinnon", I wouldn't have a problem with that (although I think he can be a little better than MacKinnon)

The OP is convinced that Bedard is generational. I don't, yet.
Like every player before him, he will have to prove it. I'm not convinced of anything at this stage except his awesome potential. If he is generational though I won't hold it against him if it takes him a bit to get there. Like I said, marathon not a sprint.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: PainForShane

Lafleurs Guy

Guuuuuuuy!
Jul 20, 2007
78,735
50,154
I agree with you but who would be his Center?

**

The other night, they showed Bedard's pretty mom in the stands. She looks like she's aged 10 years since I'd seen her last. You could tell she's feeling the weight of him not excelling.

Again, it was nice to see him get not 1 but 2 points. He needed the confidence boost - and the bounce in his step.
I would put McDavid as his center. No way I put Mich Marner on my first line.
 

BHawk21

Registered User
Mar 21, 2022
2,404
1,520
Look what Ovi had to start his career... And like the other poster said how many games did Sid play with Mario

I'm just saying he's not Mcdavid Crosby or Ovi that's not a very hot take or anything.


Totally agree he's not in a position to succeed but he doesn't have the ability of those 3 to blow a NHL game open on his own with seperation strength or speed like those guys did at 18-19 , I mean we are talking about the 3 best players in the 21st century its not like its a knock on bedard
Thats what I said.
 
  • Like
Reactions: The Gr8 Dane

PainForShane

formerly surfshop
Dec 24, 2019
2,861
3,292
No. But it's an example of how it takes some players longer to take off than others.

I'd consider Lafleur generational. He had a short career and it took him a while to get there but six straight years of 50/100 had never been done before and has only been replicated by two others (Yzerman just missed out on being a third.) Lafleur was the best player in hockey for half a decade. A long period of dominance for the game. His game after 1980 fell apart with injuries, politics and other crap. So I get if people don't count him as generational but he and Bossy are about as good as you can get without being Gretz/Lemieux.

Another example: Dominik Hasek. Many people consider him generational. He didn't really become a starter until 11 years after he was drafted.

Like every player before him, he will have to prove it. I'm not convinced of anything at this stage except his awesome potential. If he is generational though I won't hold it against him if it takes him a bit to get there. Like I said, marathon not a sprint.

Hey there -- agree with most if not everything you've been saying here, esp the main point in which we're 100% in agreement. And your posts / arguments seem well thought out, this is the first time I'm seeing you, to me you seem like a good poster. But I think some context is necessary re: Hasek.

Hasek was a unique case, I have him firmly in my Mt Rushmore of players (Gretz first, Mario Gordie Orr Hasek as 2-5 in no particular order), I was a fmr goalie and am still in awe of what Hasek was able to do consistently over most of his career, esp with how ridiculously bad some of those Sabres teams were. Different discussion.

But in terms of playing time, Hasek was in a different spot than most forwards in that ppl who knew him in Europe knew how good he was, but in Chi he was stuck behind Ed freaking Belfour who had to have been one of the easier first ballot HOF picks that have ever been made. Imo no sane GM / coach would start some unproven snow angel goalie over Crazy Eddie who was one of the very best goalies in the NHL for most of his career. Not sure if you read Brodeur's book, but he talks about how if NJ had been able to land Cujo (as was rumored at the time), he doubts he would've had anywhere near the career he had because he doesn't think he would've been able to get consistent playing time ie not had the opportunity to prove himself at the NHL level. Point is, for goalies playing time matters and Hasek wasn't going to get it playing behind Belfour in Chicago.

Hasek didn't struggle that much in the NHL if at all, though looking up his stats I guess his first year in Buffalo wasn't great, though that year he was far better statistically than a ~30 year old Grant Fuhr in roughly the same number of starts. But goalies more than other positions need the opportunity, it wasn't that Hasek was bad or even mediocre early on, he just didn't get the opportunity to run with a team until his 2nd year in Buffalo, when he got his first of six Vezinas (in 8 years). That year he ended up relegating an early 30 something Grant Fuhr to the bench (Fuhr wasn't even close to washed up, he'd later be a starter for STL).

***

Anyway I don't think Hasek is an example of someone who took a while to get going aside from arguably that first year in Buffalo, where even still he was statistically the best goalie in a 3-way split (one of the goalies being Grant Fuhr). Otherwise 100% agree with the rest of your posts here and the overall message you're conveying.

Re: Bedard, he is still only 19 and imo showing enough upside that's imo it's a bit silly to try to argue his potential is capped somehow based on struggles he may or may not be having in his 2nd year in the league (after winning the Calder no less).

Like you said, it's a marathon not a sprint. Edit grammar / spelling
 
Last edited:

ponder

Registered User
Jul 11, 2007
17,044
6,554
Vancouver
I would put him on a line with Mackinnon and Crosby

Hyman - McDavid - Marner
Crosby - Mackinnon - Bedard/Jarvis
Marchand - Point - Stone
Konecny - Barzal - Scheifele
Jarvis/Bedard
No Sam Reinhart? For RWs I'd go with Marner and Reinhart as my top 2, then Bedard on line 3, Stone on line 4. Marchand/Point/Bedard would be small, but Marchand/Point are very good 2-way players, I wouldn't be too concerned, and I could see those 3 meshing super well offensively.

Sid/Mac/Reinhart would IMO be an amazing "you aren't f***ing touching the puck" line.
 
Last edited:

Lafleurs Guy

Guuuuuuuy!
Jul 20, 2007
78,735
50,154
Hey there -- agree with most if not everything you've been saying here, esp the main point in which we're 100% in agreement. And your posts / arguments seem well thought out, this is the first time I'm seeing you, to me you seem like a good poster. But I think some context is necessary re: Hasek.

Hasek was a unique case, I have him firmly in my Mt Rushmore of players (Gretz first, Mario Gordie Orr Hasek as 2-5 in no particular order), I was a fmr goalie and am still in awe of what Hasek was able to do consistently over most of his career, esp with how ridiculously bad some of those Sabres teams were. Different discussion.

But in terms of playing time, Hasek was in a different spot than most forwards in that ppl who knew him in Europe knew how good he was, but in Chi he was stuck behind Ed freaking Belfour who had to have been one of the easier first ballot HOF picks that have ever been made. Imo no sane GM / coach would start some unproven snow angel goalie over Crazy Eddie who was one of the very best goalies in the NHL for most of his career. Not sure if you read Brodeur's book, but he talks about how if NJ had been able to land Cujo (as was rumored at the time), he doubts he would've had anywhere near the career he had because he doesn't think he would've been able to get consistent playing time ie not had the opportunity to prove himself at the NHL level. Point is, for goalies playing time matters and Hasek wasn't going to get it playing behind Belfour in Chicago.

Hasek didn't struggle that much in the NHL if at all, though looking up his stats I guess his first year in Buffalo wasn't great, though that year he was far better statistically than a ~30 year old Grant Fuhr in roughly the same number of starts. But goalies more than other positions need the opportunity, it wasn't that Hasek was bad or even mediocre early on, he just didn't get the opportunity to run with a team until his 2nd year in Buffalo, when he got his first of six Vezinas (in 8 years). That year he ended up relegating an early 30 something Grant Fuhr to the bench (Fuhr wasn't even close to washed up, he'd later be a starter for STL).

***

Anyway I don't think Hasek is an example of someone who took a while to get going aside from arguably that first year in Buffalo, where even still he was statistically the best goalie in a 3-way split (one of the goalies being Grant Fuhr). Otherwise 100% agree with the rest of your posts here and the overall message you're conveying.

Re: Bedard, he is still only 19 and imo showing enough upside that's imo it's a bit silly to try to argue his potential is capped somehow based on struggles he may or may not be having in his 2nd year in the league (after winning the Calder no less).

Like you said, it's a marathon not a sprint. Edit grammar / spelling
Absolutely Hasek is an exception. I can’t think of another player who gets going ten years later.

Now he was great in Europe? Okay. But that doesn’t mean he’d have been great as an 28 year old in the NHL.

The point is though that he put together a generational career much later. If it takes Bedard until he’s 22 to get going does that mean he can’t be generational? I don’t think so.

But I certainly don’t expect him to wait until 28 like Hasek. :laugh: As you said, different circumstances.
 

PainForShane

formerly surfshop
Dec 24, 2019
2,861
3,292
Absolutely Hasek is an exception. I can’t think of another player who gets going ten years later.

Now he was great in Europe? Okay. But that doesn’t mean he’d have been great as an 28 year old in the NHL.

The point is though that he put together a generational career much later. If it takes Bedard until he’s 22 to get going does that mean he can’t be generational? I don’t think so.

But I certainly don’t expect him to wait until 28 like Hasek. :laugh: As you said, different circumstances.

We're in agreement here but I'd argue Hasek would've likely been great in the NHL before age 28 if he'd had the opportunity. Multiple European players were convinced he was the best goalie in the world prior to that he just hadn't come over, Euro vs. North America is different for a goalie but not overly so (esp not for someone of Hasek's hockey IQ). Hasek problem was a problem of playing time -- being behind a young Belfour you can understand why.

Still DOES NOT explain him to be traded basically 1-1 for Stephane Beauregard (who?) but that's a different discussion.

Either way, like you said different circumstances. Hasek was someone who took his time to get good, but I strongly believe it was more of a lack of opportunity rather than anything close to underperformance.

***

FWIW, Bedard hasn't underperformed either, he won the Calder last year. But either way if Bedard takes until age 22 or 23 or 24 to get going (which is how long Jordan and Djokovic took) who freaking cares. And the kid's 19 years old we both agree he has plenty of time.

Anyway we're clearly on the same side in this convo but I wanted to push back on your classification of Hasek, it's not really apples to apples. That's all my response was about
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lafleurs Guy

Gregor Samsa

Registered User
Sep 5, 2020
4,268
4,860
Crosby and McDavid have a strong chance to be top 10 players of all time. No teenager should be assumed to be that good. Anyway, the Blackhawks suck
 

Russian_fanatic

Registered User
Jan 19, 2004
7,895
2,192
I never thought that he was Crosby or McDavid.

If Crosby and McDavid are this generations Gretzky/Lemieux, Connor Bedard is Joe Sakic... if that makes sense.
 

TageGod

Registered User
Aug 31, 2022
2,452
1,646
Just 3 goals, 15pts in 19 games. He's only won 29% of faceoffs taken and owns a 5.5% shooting percentage...

I know he's only 19 but is there any doubt now that maybe he'll just be very good instead of a Crosby or McDavid?
I thought the Sabres had bad centers at taking draws, that is a whole new level of bad. Shooting % usually balances out in the end he might get back up toward 10% and 20-25 goals by the end of it.
 

Plastic Joseph

Unregistered User
Mar 21, 2014
2,015
481
my expectation (and I think others too) for Bedard was that he would take more time to become a true top player in the league. Crosby and McDavid were #1 by the time they were finished their 2nd season but Bedard was always projected to take longer to get there.

I still think we will see him start to contend for major hardware when he is 22-23. He probably won't reach their level but I still think he will be one of the best players in the NHL for many, many years.

Edit - and btw, there is a huge gap between "just very good" and Crosby/McDavid level.

Is Kucherov "just very good?" MacKinnon? I think Bedard can reach the level of those guys
 

oXo Cube

Power Play Merchant
Nov 4, 2008
11,336
12,232
In your closet
If you find his production to be concerning then the low shooting percentage is a positive sign not a negative one.

He's in shouting distance of PPG production on one of the worst teams in the NHL at age 19. Bedard is fine.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LuGBuG and hn777

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad