Value of: Avs Firesale, truly this time...

[StayAtHomeAv]

To the above points.. MacKinnon is only 21 years old. He's putting up respectable numbers on a team that was expected to have some growing pains in adapting to a new system. To call him a disappointment at 21 years old while he's adapting to a brand new coach and a brand new system is a discredit to him.

To get a more honest look at who the Avs are and a better evaluation of their talent, I'd say wait til the 20 game mark to see where they're at as they absolutely should be be firing on all cylinders at that point.

Also EJ has looked like an absolute #1 this year (small sample size and all). It appears that the arrival of Nolan Pratt has done wonders for EJ and Zadorov.

A trade for McDonagh where MacKinnon goes the other way is bad in that it doesn't address a need. The Avs need top 6, but then again, if you're trading away MacK, you're basically committed to selling off everything anyway and starting over.

The thread has had some good discussion between some Oilers and Avs fans. The wreck comes from the ridiculous overreacting from the OP and the ensuing low ball trade offers that we all expected to happen.

EJ is getting scored on too much still. He might look better. But defensively, results wise, he needs to tighten things up and be more consistent.

You are really blowing the whole need thing out of proportion. If we were to trade MacK for McD then we would have an extra Dman we could then flip to replace MacK. The numbers stay the same.

And no, if we were to trade MacK that doesn't mean they are blowing everything up. Could just mean they lost faith in MacK.

Good discussion? Is that what you call attacking others comments and playing stupid word games to make them look even worse? Because that's all I've seen on the last couple pages.

On the other hand, if MacKinnon does take the next step, after being traded, it would be yet another steal for the Rangers in a trade involving McDonagh.

Yep. That would be the real problem with trading MacK. I would hate for that to be another Seguin situation. I wouldn't be trading MacK yet.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Definite interest in Barrie, what would it cost the Oilers for him?

 

[Paladin2799]

EJ is getting scored on too much still. He might look better. But defensively, results wise, he needs to tighten things up and be more consistent.

You are really blowing the whole need thing out of proportion. If we were to trade MacK for McD then we would have an extra Dman we could then flip to replace MacK. The numbers stay the same.

And no, if we were to trade MacK that doesn't mean they are blowing everything up. Could just mean they lost faith in MacK.

Good discussion? Is that what you call attacking others comments and playing stupid word games to make them look even worse? Because that's all I've seen on the last couple pages.



Yep. That would be the real problem with trading MacK. I would hate for that to be another Seguin situation. I wouldn't be trading MacK yet.

What would Colorado want from Toronto for EJ? We got a plethora of offensive and defensive players and are desperately looking for top4 help. EJ would be a huge size upgrade for us and a leader.

 

[strictlyrandy]

EJ is getting scored on too much still. He might look better. But defensively, results wise, he needs to tighten things up and be more consistent.

You are really blowing the whole need thing out of proportion. If we were to trade MacK for McD then we would have an extra Dman we could then flip to replace MacK. The numbers stay the same.

And no, if we were to trade MacK that doesn't mean they are blowing everything up. Could just mean they lost faith in MacK.

Good discussion? Is that what you call attacking others comments and playing stupid word games to make them look even worse? Because that's all I've seen on the last couple pages.



Yep. That would be the real problem with trading MacK. I would hate for that to be another Seguin situation. I wouldn't be trading MacK yet.

I value MacK a lot differently than you do. I've not "attacked" any posters. I've merely disagreed (vehemently) with Bern. In fact, there was a healthy discussion about players I value highly.

You say McDonagh for MacK isn't counter intuitive (it is). The problem with your line of thinking is that we can simply replace MacK by flipping a D man to replace MacK with a presumably similar or better player. The Avs do not have a d man that is worth a player of MacK's potential so it ends up just being a lateral move at best

You claim EJ allows too many goals which is weird, because he's not the goalie. During the blowout to Nashville he was on the ice for 2 of the 5 goals against and really wasn't all to blame. You have to look at Varly in instances like that. He's the one who has been less than stellar to start the year.

Or maybe we just see two different Erik Johnsons? I see a guy who has been solid night and night out while playing some tough minutes against the best teams in the league to start the year.

I see Varly as being the inconsistent guy that allows far too many goals. But hey, 15 goals in 3 games can't all be on Varly, gotta blame someone ya know.

Sorry if you feel that this was attacking you even though I only disagreed with your opinion.

 

[Opak]

I wish there was some way to bring Beauchemin back to Anaheim (and undo the entire Bieksa experiment).

 

[strictlyrandy]

I wish there was some way to bring Beauchemin back to Anaheim (and undo the entire Bieksa experiment).

I love the way Bednar is handling the aging Beauchemin. I haven't seen much of Anaheim this year. Has Bieksa managed to get worse?

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Definite interest in Barrie, what would it cost the Oilers for him?

Well rumors this offseason said Sakic wanted Draisaitl/Hall while Chia was pushing RNH. I'd guess somewhere in the middle of the two.

 

[KlefDown]

Well rumors this offseason said Sakic wanted Draisaitl/Hall while Chia was pushing RNH. I'd guess somewhere in the middle of the two.

RNH + RHD prospect (which we don't have) or pick? doubt you'd want picks though

 

[Jarey Curry]

Well rumors this offseason said Sakic wanted Draisaitl/Hall while Chia was pushing RNH. I'd guess somewhere in the middle of the two.

So sad they went with Larsson instead of Barrie

 

[Muffin]

RNH + RHD prospect (which we don't have) or pick? doubt you'd want picks though

Barrie for RNH + Reinhart. Call me crazy but I think Reinhart can still develop into a decent 2nd pair defenseman.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

What would Colorado want from Toronto for EJ? We got a plethora of offensive and defensive players and are desperately looking for top4 help. EJ would be a huge size upgrade for us and a leader.

Even if EJ isn't a true #1, he's the best D we currently have, and will be a good #2 if Zadorov or Bigras can end up being that #1. On top of that, he just signed a long term deal at a reasonable cap hit, so it's not like we have any incentive to move him.

So, like many of our players, if you want him, it's going to take a huge overpayment.

 

[gabeliscious]

jvr for barrie as a base?

 

[AvsGuy]

Barrie for RNH + Reinhart. Call me crazy but I think Reinhart can still develop into a decent 2nd pair defenseman.

You are crazy.

 

[Paladin2799]

Even if EJ isn't a true #1, he's the best D we currently have, and will be a good #2 if Zadorov or Bigras can end up being that #1. On top of that, he just signed a long term deal at a reasonable cap hit, so it's not like we have any incentive to move him.

So, like many of our players, if you want him, it's going to take a huge overpayment.

So lets say that the offer starts with JVR and goes from there?

I'd be open to maybe including Gardiner if you wanted a defenseman back, but from what I see here you want forwards?

Hell, JVR+Gardiner for EJ? Yep.

 

[Avs44]

Erik Johnson is not getting moved right now. Until proven otherwise over a lengthy period of time, he is the teams best defensman - and even if he is superseded, he is still a very good top four defensman the club badly needs. He is not going to get traded to shore up forward depth, especially at what is probably the least valuable position in the league, wingers. I'll say the same of Barrie. Neither EJ or Barrie are getting traded for someone with now less than two years on their contract.

 

[JohnnyJacket13]

It seems like one of the Avs' needs is a top-pairing LHD. Ryan Murray is certainly available for the right price (a 1C coming back), and while he is the most under-stated CBJ defenseman, he might be the most well-rounded, stable guy on the blue line for them. Last season, even after Jones was acquired, he was our best defenseman. Here are two proposals involving Murray+ for Duchene

Proposal 1:
Ryan Murray + Brandon Dubinsky + Paul Bittner for Matt Duchene + Francois Beauchemin

Colorado gets younger on the blue line, adds a 2C who is a bit cheaper than Duchene. CBJ gets their much-needed 1C and add a veteran to their incredibly young blue line.

Colorado lines:

Landeskog-MacKinnon-Iginla
Grigorenko-Dubinsky-Rantanen
Borque-Soderberg-Colborne
Martinsen-Mitchell-Comeau

Murray-Barrie
Zadorov-Johnson
Wiercioch-Gelinas

Columbus lines:

Jenner-Duchene-Atkinson
Saad-Wennberg-Foligno
Hartnell-Karlsson-Gagner
Calvert-Sedlak-Anderson

Werenski-Jones
Johnson-Savard
Beauchemin-Nutivaara


Proposal 2:
Ryan Murray + Boone Jenner for Matt Duchene + Eric Gelinas

A little less salary going to Colorado, so Beauchemin is not needed in return. Instead of Dubinsky, its the younger Jenner who fits in well with the Avs' core.


Colorado lines:

Landeskog-MacKinnon-Iginla
Grigorenko-Jenner-Rantanen
Borque-Soderberg-Colborne
Martinsen-Mitchell-Comeau

Murray-Barrie
Zadorov-Johnson
Wiercioch-Gelinas

Columbus lines:

Saad-Duchene-Foligno
Hartnell-Wennberg-Atkinson
Calvert-Dubinsky-Anderson
Sedlak-Karlsson-Gagner

Werenski-Jones
Johnson-Savard
Nutivaara-Gelinas

 

[strictlyrandy]

RNH + RHD prospect (which we don't have) or pick? doubt you'd want picks though

A page or two back some of us discussed a blockbuster between the two.

RNH + Nurse + Eberle for Barrie + Landeskog + Henley (prospect)

 

[Avs44]

A page or two back some of us discussed a blockbuster between the two.

RNH + Nurse + Eberle for Barrie + Landeskog + Henley (prospect)

That's ugly. Why do we want to swap Eberle for Landeskog?? Barrie for RNH has a good basis, forget the rest.

 

[MagicalRazor]

all the pieces that will fetch high returns that avs wont trade

 

[SupremeTeam16]

So sad they went with Larsson instead of Barrie

Sad for who?

Larsson has been an anchor on our blue line. If it was a choice between Larsson or Barrie the Oilers made the right choice.

 

[The Abusement Park]

It seems like one of the Avs' needs is a top-pairing LHD. Ryan Murray is certainly available for the right price (a 1C coming back), and while he is the most under-stated CBJ defenseman, he might be the most well-rounded, stable guy on the blue line for them. Last season, even after Jones was acquired, he was our best defenseman. Here are two proposals involving Murray+ for Duchene

Proposal 1:
Ryan Murray + Brandon Dubinsky + Paul Bittner for Matt Duchene + Francois Beauchemin

Colorado gets younger on the blue line, adds a 2C who is a bit cheaper than Duchene. CBJ gets their much-needed 1C and add a veteran to their incredibly young blue line.

Colorado lines:

Landeskog-MacKinnon-Iginla
Grigorenko-Dubinsky-Rantanen
Borque-Soderberg-Colborne
Martinsen-Mitchell-Comeau

Murray-Barrie
Zadorov-Johnson
Wiercioch-Gelinas

Columbus lines:

Jenner-Duchene-Atkinson
Saad-Wennberg-Foligno
Hartnell-Karlsson-Gagner
Calvert-Sedlak-Anderson

Werenski-Jones
Johnson-Savard
Beauchemin-Nutivaara


Proposal 2:
Ryan Murray + Boone Jenner for Matt Duchene + Eric Gelinas

A little less salary going to Colorado, so Beauchemin is not needed in return. Instead of Dubinsky, its the younger Jenner who fits in well with the Avs' core.


Colorado lines:

Landeskog-MacKinnon-Iginla
Grigorenko-Jenner-Rantanen
Borque-Soderberg-Colborne
Martinsen-Mitchell-Comeau

Murray-Barrie
Zadorov-Johnson
Wiercioch-Gelinas

Columbus lines:

Saad-Duchene-Foligno
Hartnell-Wennberg-Atkinson
Calvert-Dubinsky-Anderson
Sedlak-Karlsson-Gagner

Werenski-Jones
Johnson-Savard
Nutivaara-Gelinas

I could see the second option as a good base for a trade IMO.

 

[Avs44]

Proposal 2:
Ryan Murray + Boone Jenner for Matt Duchene + Eric Gelinas

Has Jenner's stock dropped that much? Or am I just badly overrating Murray? Doesn't seem like Columbus would do that.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Three coaching regimes, this core still has the same problems. There has been enough time for these players to change their ways, but can't. This team is beyond fragile mentally, Bednar has made some good decision among game-system, but the players just can't execute, a lot of our core are just idiots. Solid players, but completely lack any intelligence in terms of taking the next step. This team also suffers from a lot of junior level of mistakes, especially puck-watching.

Honestly, the only three players that should be untouchable are Duchene, Zadorov, and Rantanen.

EVERYONE else is available. MacKinnon is dumber than a doorknob. I wouldn't mind trading Landeskog too. EJ's age wouldn't fit into Avs re-rebuild. Varlamov too. Barrie doesn't belong in Bednar's system.

But word of warning, just because these players are available, does NOT mean you'll be able to get them for cheap. If we trade MacKinnon, we want a franchise player back, preferably one with some level of intelligence. Likewise with the rest.

Enjoy.

A fire sale literally means that you are selling assets for cheap. If you are not, it is not a fire sale. You aren't going to get franchise player offers if you have "fire sale" in your title.

 

[Volica]

Can we do a trade that was offered in 2013?
Monahan + Poirier + Klimchuk for MacKinnnon? I'd love to see Mack with Gaudreau.

 

[Rebuilt]

No. This whole thread turned into Av's fans TELLING US what their players are worth in Oiler dollars.

Barrie isnt worth RNH and its utterly irrelevant whether Avs fans think he is. We aint trading Nurse, and we can just add the whole thing to the previous 43,276 threads of other fanbases comparing their players to Oiler players.

We arent making any more major trades this year. Not unless its a lopsided one that falls in our laps.

Avs need to work out their own issues , not suggest a 'fire sale'.