Average Age of QF teams compared
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It seemed like a boring statistic, but then it hit me. The 8 youngest teams ALL made the play-offs. The 8 oldest teams ALL didn't advance to the play-off stage.
That's ridiculous.
I've always said there's a strong negative bias towards young players. The physical peak of every skater is in early 20s, that's when the point production peaks as well.
30+, 35+ yo guys are being awarded roles purely out of name recognition and past achievements.
That's ridiculous.
I've always said there's a strong negative bias towards young players. The physical peak of every skater is in early 20s, that's when the point production peaks as well.
30+, 35+ yo guys are being awarded roles purely out of name recognition and past achievements.
The complicating factor is that older players have more leverage in salary negotiations. That leverage translates to higher pay and ultimately less talent on the team.
EverybodyLovesRay
Registered User
- Sep 21, 2008
- 636
- 57
You can find ages, height, weight and other facts also from here, just scroll down:
Elite Prospects - World Championship (WC)
Take away Datsyuk and Russia's team are toddlers
As the teams are fairly close in age this stat is not really telling much. For example Russia has some select and few vets who have an impact on that average age. Russia should have brought a much older team though.
BalticWarrior
Registered User
If only the Koreans had chosen younger players.. They probably would have made it to the QF's. 
torniojaws
Registered User
Any good team will have a handful of experienced guys showing the ropes to young guys, especially when things don't go smoothly. An all-junior team would often collapse after the first setbacks and lose.
Just because some teams fail with stupid FA signings doesn't mean they all do. There are plenty of 30+ and 35+ players who are worth every cent. Just as there are enough young players busting with the only difference of damage control called ELC. It's not about age at all. Also the older player do bring a lot of qualities younger player just can't have. Experience, calmness, leadership, mentoring the younger players who might become better players than their mentors, but theat doesn't mean the work of the mentor was a non-factor.
Yes, the salary cap era dictates trying to win wit ELC stars, but it is on the CBA and not the nature of the game itself. Rules are rules, but without resrictions if I would build the best team possible I would try to have all age groups on it. If a player is a superstar at age 18 - more power to him, but you can't build a team out of them younglings alone.
joe89
#5
- Apr 30, 2009
- 20,316
- 179
I don't think that flies all across the board. The reason that Sweden has a young team, yes they are good, but it's also due to the fact that Lundqvist, Zetterberg, Sedins et al. have declined. Canada, Russia, USA and Sweden could've iced older teams and been a bit better by doing so. USA's best player here, is one of the oldest on the team. Russia's oldest is if not the best, pretty damn close.
But I do think the younger generation overall is better than the previous in most regards, skating has come a long way the last 10 years which has changed the game and that has made it significantly harder to stick around.
Howe Elbows 9
Registered User
The five oldest and five youngest players in the quarterfinals...
[TABLE="class: brtb_item_table"][TBODY][TR][TD]Player[/TD][TD]National team[/TD][TD]Birthdate[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Pavel Datsyuk[/TD][TD]Russia[/TD][TD]July 20, 1978[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Janne Pesonen[/TD][TD]Finland[/TD][TD]May 11, 1982[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Tomas Plekanec[/TD][TD]Czech Republic[/TD][TD]October 31, 1982[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Vasily Koshechkin[/TD]
[TD]Russia[/TD][TD]March 27, 1983[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Curtis McElhinney[/TD][TD]Canada[/TD][TD]May 23, 1983[/TD][/TR][/TBODY][/TABLE]
[TABLE="class: brtb_item_table"][TBODY][TR][TD]Player[/TD][TD]National team[/TD][TD]Birthdate[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Quinn Hughes[/TD][TD]United States[/TD][TD]October 14, 1999[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Filip Chytil[/TD][TD]Czech Republic[/TD][TD]September 5, 1999[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Miro Heiskanen[/TD][TD]Finland[/TD][TD]July 18, 1999[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Eeli Tolvanen[/TD][TD]Finland[/TD][TD]April 22, 1999[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Martin Necas[/TD][TD]Czech Republic[/TD][TD]January 15, 1999[/TD][/TR][/TBODY][/TABLE]
[TABLE="class: brtb_item_table"][TBODY][TR][TD]Player[/TD][TD]National team[/TD][TD]Birthdate[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Pavel Datsyuk[/TD][TD]Russia[/TD][TD]July 20, 1978[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Janne Pesonen[/TD][TD]Finland[/TD][TD]May 11, 1982[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Tomas Plekanec[/TD][TD]Czech Republic[/TD][TD]October 31, 1982[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Vasily Koshechkin[/TD]
[TD]Russia[/TD][TD]March 27, 1983[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Curtis McElhinney[/TD][TD]Canada[/TD][TD]May 23, 1983[/TD][/TR][/TBODY][/TABLE]
[TABLE="class: brtb_item_table"][TBODY][TR][TD]Player[/TD][TD]National team[/TD][TD]Birthdate[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Quinn Hughes[/TD][TD]United States[/TD][TD]October 14, 1999[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Filip Chytil[/TD][TD]Czech Republic[/TD][TD]September 5, 1999[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Miro Heiskanen[/TD][TD]Finland[/TD][TD]July 18, 1999[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Eeli Tolvanen[/TD][TD]Finland[/TD][TD]April 22, 1999[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD]Martin Necas[/TD][TD]Czech Republic[/TD][TD]January 15, 1999[/TD][/TR][/TBODY][/TABLE]
Point production peak was always around 27 if nothing changed. I dont think Datsyuk is here for his achievments. He is still one of the most entertaining players in this WHC. Plekanec made it only because of his strong playoff.
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Do you have some actual stats to back this up? Seems there are a number of players these days that are having a peak in their late 20s or even early 30s.
Keduzin
Registered User
- May 5, 2009
- 575
- 671
At least for the Finnish Hockey this is THE first time in god knows how many years that the players are allowed to play ! The old system hasn’t worked in the last 5-6 years and the players that have been participating in that style of play are finally out !
This is the beginning of a new era in Finnish hockey and the young guns who will carry Finland in the next 10 years or so now has implemented the modern hockey to the national team.... FINALLY !!!
This is the beginning of a new era in Finnish hockey and the young guns who will carry Finland in the next 10 years or so now has implemented the modern hockey to the national team.... FINALLY !!!
NyQuil
Big F$&*in Q
Teams with a lot of national depth tend to focus on younger squads.
Unsurprisingly, these teams tend to make the playoffs.
On the other hand, if you're one of the few NHLers from your country, you can expect to be playing for your national team well into your late 30s and early 40s.
Unsurprisingly, these teams tend to make the playoffs.
On the other hand, if you're one of the few NHLers from your country, you can expect to be playing for your national team well into your late 30s and early 40s.
Wait, so you assumed that my point was that older players are so terrible they should simply be discarded?
That's not the point. There is a negative bias towards younger players. There is a positive bias towards older, established (and declining) players. Younger players don't get awarded enough ice time, older players are overpaid and overrated.
It doesn't mean that all young players ar better than 35 year-olds.
NyQuil
Big F$&*in Q
This is a pretty simplistic argument.
For one, with the CBA and the restriction on entry-level contracts, it's impossible to pay young players what they may actually be worth.
Ironically, this makes including younger players in your roster a necessity if you want to be competitive, whereas pre-salary cap it was not a requirement.
A New Look at Aging Curves for NHL Skaters (part 1)
Players generally peak at 21-25. Forwards peak a little later, defensemen already peak at 19.
Am I really that incoherent? Younger players are underpaid due to ELC, which is unfair and ridiculous, but that's an entirely different topic.
Older players are overpaid and overrated. This has got nothing to do with CBA or ELCs.
Lundqvist has now become an average NHL goalie, yet his cap hit is huge. Plenty of other examples like this.
NyQuil
Big F$&*in Q
I don't know about that.
Reliance on a cost-controlled segment of your team allows you to spend more on older players.
Teams have a little more flexibility with the ELC.
Ultimately, you're right to some degree, though the cap and ELC encourages this. Players will exert their market power in terms of their present capability to negotiate for a long-term contract where by the end they no longer meet market value.
The question is whether, over the life of the contract, they are worth the value. Not what they are being paid at the tail end of that contract.
It would be great to pay players on 1-2 year contracts from 28 (or so) onwards but good luck with that. Someone will be willing to sacrifice value at the end of a long-term contract for immediate results.
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Lundqvist ranks 11th in SV% from 2013-18, counting goalies with at least 10 000 minutes on ice. He's probably going to drop to at least 20th place by 2020. So in his case the answer is a clear 'no'. He's not worth the value. Every single goalie above him has a lower cap hit.
That's about 20 million wasted over the length of his contract.
I don't think he's an exception.
NyQuil
Big F$&*in Q
Yeah, but it's only about $3M a year which is not a significant portion of the cap.
What about a guy like Sidney Crosby?
Teams can make that up through canny drafting and ELCs.
If you think teams actually believe that a player will deliver perfect value over the length of the contract of an older player, I don't know what to tell you.
dangomon
Registered User
You may also be missing the fact that teams like Denmark, and Latvia etc don't have the choice of players we (or Russia) do. They take the veteran players with good hockey experience, as these are their countries best regardless of age. Its not always a matter of choice!
