Auston Matthews race to Top 10 in Maple Leafs History (Goals)

[zeke]

He’ll always be second fiddle to McDavid, even though his defensive game bridges the gap significantly.

Just like Kopitar or Toews were in a second tier to Crosby, Malkin and Ovie.

were Kopi and Toews ever 60gl/100pt guys like Matthews has paced for the last 3 seasons?

 

[Fogelhund]

Matthews is on course to being the greatest Leaf ever.

If he wins a cup or two along the way, probably.

He’ll always be second fiddle to McDavid, even though his defensive game bridges the gap significantly.

Just like Kopitar or Toews were in a second tier to Crosby, Malkin and Ovie.

If Matthews wins a couple of cups, and a Conn Smyth or two... while McDavid doesn't, will he still be seen as inferior?

 

[The Podium]

were Kopi and Toews ever 60gl/100pt guys like Matthews has paced for the last 3 seasons?

I didn’t say I agree with Matthews being regarded as inferior. Just saying that it’ll be hard to break down the already well established notion that he is.

I value two way play more than anything else, especially star players that are among the best defensively. Patrice Bergeron has been my favorite player in the league for example.

Toews may never have had the offense, but statistically he had some seasons that are among best defensively of all time.

 

[Contenderorpretender]

If he wins a cup or two along the way, probably.



If Matthews wins a couple of cups, and a Conn Smyth or two... while McDavid doesn't, will he still be seen as inferior?

Probably.

 

[TheDoldrums]

 

[Fogelhund]

From the same tweet... LOL

 

[leafsfan5]

I really wish COVID didn't ruin his past few seasons. He had the opportunity to put up a stretch of 3 seasons we haven't seen since peak Alexander Ovechkin. And I don't doubt he would've actually put up those numbers considering his ability

His pace:
2019-2020: 55 goals
2020-2021: 65 goals
2021-222: 61 goals

Production under Keefe:
126 games - 94 goals - 58 assists - 152 points

Translates to 61 goals and 99 points over the course of 82 games. Dominant.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

I really wish COVID didn't ruin his past few seasons. He had the opportunity to put up a stretch of 3 seasons we haven't seen since peak Alexander Ovechkin. And I don't doubt he would've actually put up those numbers considering his ability

His pace:
2019-2020: 55 goals
2020-2021: 65 goals
2021-222: 61 goals

Production under Keefe:
126 games - 94 goals - 58 assists - 152 points

Translates to 61 goals and 99 points over the course of 82 games. Dominant.

Yeah those missed seasons going into peak bug me. Barring injury (or more stupid part seasons), he should crack top 10 all time. Could very well have been top 5.

People love to discount his lack of ice time and PP early on but when you do the pace math, he's actually been slightly better than Ovechkin when he started. People really don't appreciate just how good he is.

 

[Confucius]

He’ll always be second fiddle to McDavid, even though his defensive game bridges the gap significantly.

Just like Kopitar or Toews were in a second tier to Crosby, Malkin and Ovie.

It will depend on the length of their careers. Look at Bossy 573 goals and he didn't even play 10 years, never even considered one of the best alltime goal scorers. Sure Ovi has 175 more goals but it took him 500 more games.

 

[Gallagbi]

were Kopi and Toews ever 60gl/100pt guys like Matthews has paced for the last 3 seasons?

Datsyuk is likely the best point comparison for a 2 way player, but he didn't score like AM.

I dont think Matthews will get love on his defensive game until he starts PKing though

 

[Notsince67]

 

[slozo]

It will depend on the length of their careers. Look at Bossy 573 goals and he didn't even play 10 years, never even considered one of the best alltime goal scorers. Sure Ovi has 175 more goals but it took him 500 more games.

I beg to differ, Bossy is almost always considered one of the all time great goal scorers, myself included in that group. Unfortunately a shortened career, but to me he's top 3 4 or 5 currently (would have to think about it).

 

[kevsh]

never even considered one of the best alltime goal scorers.

Who never has considered him one of the all-time great goal scorers? I'm pretty sure those three guys are in the minority as the rest of the hockey world has recognized him as such all the way back to his playing days.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I beg to differ, Bossy is almost always considered one of the all time great goal scorers, myself included in that group. Unfortunately a shortened career, but to me he's top 3 4 or 5 currently (would have to think about it).

Ha, I was about to say more or less the same thing. Bossy is definitely on my list of the greatest scorers as well and like you, I'd have to think about where exactly to put him but he's right up there for sure. I remember watching him scoring 50 in 50, the first guy to do it since Rocket Richard. He needed two goals in game 50 to do it, I was watching the Leaf game and when it ended we were taken to the broadcast showing the NYI game and with 5 minutes to go, he was still stuck at 48. But he did it, two goals in the last 5 minutes to hit 50 in 50, one of the most amazing regular season moments I have ever seen.

The coolest thing about it was that he could have scored his 51st that night as well just a few seconds later into an empty net but he refused the easy goal passing it off to a teammate instead. I guess it was good enough for him to tie the Rocket but how many players would have said no to scoring his 51st in that spot?

Mike Bossy = one of the greatest scorers in NHL history and one of the classiest players ever to boot.

 

[666]

Matthews will finish as the greatest Leaf of all time IF he stays here and stays healthy.
Matthews is to McDavid as Ovi is to Crosby.

 

[Confucius]

Ha, I was about to say more or less the same thing. Bossy is definitely on my list of the greatest scorers as well and like you, I'd have to think about where exactly to put him but he's right up there for sure. I remember watching him scoring 50 in 50, the first guy to do it since Rocket Richard. He needed two goals in game 50 to do it, I was watching the Leaf game and when it ended we were taken to the broadcast showing the NYI game and with 5 minutes to go, he was still stuck at 48. But he did it, two goals in the last 5 minutes to hit 50 in 50, one of the most amazing regular season moments I have ever seen.

The coolest thing about it was that he could have scored his 51st that night as well just a few seconds later into an empty net but he refused the easy goal passing it off to a teammate instead. I guess it was good enough for him to tie the Rocket but how many players would have said no to scoring his 51st in that spot?

Mike Bossy = one of the greatest scorers in NHL history and one of the classiest players ever to boot.

exactly what people say about him,... not exactly sure where to put him but he is up there.

Only Gretzky scored more than him in their 1st 10 years, so he should be 2nd.. unless as i said longevity matters.

 

[zeke]

Matthews will finish as the greatest Leaf of all time IF he stays here and stays healthy.
Matthews is to McDavid as Ovi is to Crosby.

Except Ovi was just a winger, not a center.

And Crosby was much better defensively than Ovi, while McDavid is much worse defensively than Matthews.

 

[slozo]

Ha, I was about to say more or less the same thing. Bossy is definitely on my list of the greatest scorers as well and like you, I'd have to think about where exactly to put him but he's right up there for sure. I remember watching him scoring 50 in 50, the first guy to do it since Rocket Richard. He needed two goals in game 50 to do it, I was watching the Leaf game and when it ended we were taken to the broadcast showing the NYI game and with 5 minutes to go, he was still stuck at 48. But he did it, two goals in the last 5 minutes to hit 50 in 50, one of the most amazing regular season moments I have ever seen.

The coolest thing about it was that he could have scored his 51st that night as well just a few seconds later into an empty net but he refused the easy goal passing it off to a teammate instead. I guess it was good enough for him to tie the Rocket but how many players would have said no to scoring his 51st in that spot?

Mike Bossy = one of the greatest scorers in NHL history and one of the classiest players ever to boot.

Wow, you are going to make me dive into that tidbit about not scoring into the empty net, I absolutely did not know that (and I have a feeling most others didn't either). That's fascinating, and really amazing . . . I know I dove deeply into the Brett Hull aversion to empty netters back in the day, specifically in his 86 goal season . . . makes me respect those players that much more. (Brett Hull's in my top 5 as well

 

[zeke]

Even Strength

Hyman '22 (w/McDavid): 22gl/38pt pace
Hyman '21 (w/Matthews): 23gl/53pt pace
Hyman '20 (w/Matthews): 27gl/46pt pace
Hyman '19 (w/Tavares): 23gl/46pt pace
Hyman '18 (w/Matthews): 14gl/38pt pace

 

[Gary Nylund]

Matthews will finish as the greatest Leaf of all time IF he stays here and stays healthy.

I think so too. I think I made that prediction after seeing him play about a dozen games which was too early to tell really but yeah, I do think that is what will happen.

Matthews is to McDavid as Ovi is to Crosby.

I haven't thought of it like that but that does seems like a good analogy.

Wow, you are going to make me dive into that tidbit about not scoring into the empty net, I absolutely did not know that (and I have a feeling most others didn't either). That's fascinating, and really amazing . . . I know I dove deeply into the Brett Hull aversion to empty netters back in the day, specifically in his 86 goal season . . . makes me respect those players that much more. (Brett Hull's in my top 5 as well

Yeah memory is a funny thing and it was 40 years ago so ... just to double check, I looked up the box score of that game and Bossy scored to tie the record at 18:31 of the 3rd period and then 19 seconds later, a goal is scored by Bryan Trottier and the goal is assisted by ... Mike Bossy.

The way I remember it is it's a 2 on 0 breakaway with the goalie pulled, he has the puck on his stick, goal 51 is his if he wants it and he apparently decides that nope, I have too much respect for Rocket Richard to break his record, not with an empty net goal anyway so he gives it to Trottier instead. That was definitely one of the classiest things I have ever seen happen in the NHL. Here's the box score:

Quebec Nordiques at New York Islanders Box Score — January 24, 1981 | Hockey-Reference.com

I think Hull has to be on everyone's list. I guess the top 5 could be Hull, Bossy, Gretzky, Lemieux and Ovechkin in whatever order, at least until Matthews pushes someone out. Maybe I'm missing someone, but those are the first names that come to mind anyway.

 

[ULF_55]

I didn’t say I agree with Matthews being regarded as inferior. Just saying that it’ll be hard to break down the already well established notion that he is.

I value two way play more than anything else, especially star players that are among the best defensively. Patrice Bergeron has been my favorite player in the league for example.

Toews may never have had the offense, but statistically he had some seasons that are among best defensively of all time.

Trottier and Bossy always come to mind when it comes to comparisons of very good players that were quite a bit different.

 

[Notsince67]

Fingers crossed, eh?

Divide his salary into 4 players because around here, 4 quarters is better than a buck

 

[X66]

were Kopi and Toews ever 60gl/100pt guys like Matthews has paced for the last 3 seasons?

The other thing is, if people ever watched Kopitar played, he's on the list of most underrated superstars ever. He could easily go toe-toe with any of those 3 guys and he's got the cups to back it up.

But Matthews is even above Kopitar, because of the goal scoring x-factor.

 

[666]

Except Ovi was just a winger, not a center.

And Crosby was much better defensively than Ovi, while McDavid is much worse defensively than Matthews.

r/woosh

 

[7even]

If he wins a cup or two along the way, probably.



If Matthews wins a couple of cups, and a Conn Smyth or two... while McDavid doesn't, will he still be seen as inferior?

I've never bought that Cups make the player. Why go with the proxy of counting hardware when thousands of hours of their actual play is in front of you