Or Colorado in the second round. Am I doing it right?
Speculation: Atlantic Division Predictions
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Or Colorado in the second round. Am I doing it right?
kb
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- Aug 28, 2009
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Absolutely correct. If they haven't done it yet, that means they can't ever do it. That's how it works, right?
Ya.
Put Bergerons “ accomplishments “ against our core and their acclomplishments.
You see that right?
Leaving out heart/desire/willingness to go to the dirty areas etc…
Not even close.
The contrasts are indeed palpable.
If.
Well . Bergeron makes nowhere near 10 million a year and he puts up points AND does everything else well.
Including all of the crucial intangibles.
You know.
Heart/Character/Not scared/He cares about his team more than his personal situation etc…
I love JT but Bergeron is way better.
Not even close.
Never mind the greedy , wimpy kids.
Mess
Global Moderator
Can a team that has never won a single playoff round be considered Cup contenders?
What would that projection be based on?
Back in 1993 and 1994 when Dougie Gilmour lead the Leafs to back to back final 4 appearances I was fairly optimistic the Leafs were Cup contenders, but there was evidence to support that belief.
Going from never winning a single round to winning 4 rounds and hoisting a Cup seems like a rather large leap of faith. IMO
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zeke
The Dube Abides
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Yep.
Quality of players.
That team was never a true contender. Always a 2nd or 3rd tier team.
ToneDog
56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
Did you actually watch that team play? Worked harder in one game that this lot worked in a playoff series. If this team had that team's heart, we would not be talking about 5 first round loses. But then again, there is no stat that measures heart.
zeke
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DarkKnight
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It’s actually even more telling about their heart, that the fancy stats all point to victory and they’re so mentally weak they can still render them useless. Bravo.
ToneDog
56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
Yet you called them a tier 2 or 3 team. IIRC they came out of the gate 10-0. You would have been pumping their tires then but sh1tting on them today in order to defend this lot is puzzling.
zeke
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Stephen
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Those Pat Burns teams are where I'd put the New York Islanders today. Like those Leafs, I don't think the Islanders will go any farther than back to back conference finals before the recipe gets changed and they lose the chemistry that makes them special, so I wouldn't call them a true contender either.
I also think this current version of the Toronto Maple Leafs are somewhere around the 1993 and 1994 Detroit Red Wings and Quebec Nordiques. But this also shouldn't be taken as a ringing endorsement for where they are at and inevitable cup champions because the Wings and Nordiques/Avalanche also required several massive upgrades in a non cap world to get to where they needed to go and involved aggressive reshaping of the core which the Leafs haven't been willing to do.
ToneDog
56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
Kind of agree with your assessment of both Leaf teams but if Tampa takes a step back, I like the Isles at 20-1.
Stephen
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I feel like they've been maxed out and overachieving the past few years and that level of play can't be sustained with a changing roster for more than 2-3 years when the chemistry starts changing. Like the Burns Leafs, you swap out a Rouse or Lefebvre, upgrade from a Clark to a Sundin, the veterans put on some heavy mileage, and it all comes crashing down.
zeke
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Did those teams make bigger core additions than Tavares Muzzin Brodie and goalie change?
Stephen
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Irrelevant point, since we added Muzzin, Brodie, Tavares and we're still stuck in 1993 and 1994 position. So we need those 1995 and 1996 upgrades to get to championship status.
For comparison, the Nordiques added Forsberg in 1995 through promotion, added Clark/Claude Lemieux on the wing and added Lefebvre, Krupp on defense, and in 1996 added Sandis Ozolinsh Patrick Roy and Mike Keane to finish the job. So that's a Hall of Fame center coming in as a rookie and a Top 5 goalie of all time in addition to other quality pieces.
The Red Wings got eliminated in Game 7 of 1993 and 1994 and added Mike Vernon, Bob Rouse and Slava Fetisov in 1995, before making bigger changes in 1996 and 1997 when they added Igor Larionov, Brendan Shanahan and other veteran support pieces.
zeke
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Sakic made it out of the first round for the first time at age 26. Yzerman made it of the 1st round for the 2nd time at age 26. Interesting.
Stephen
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Does that mean we’re happy waiting for Matthews and Marner to turn 26 before winning a round?
Gary Nylund
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I get what you're saying but I also disagree. NYI came within one game if the finals, and if they get there they are probably favourites. The same goes for the 93 Leafs who Zeke likes to mock - they could easily have won the cup that year. Or look at this way, maybe you'd be saying the same thing about STL had they not won the cup but they did. Sometimes, teams that don't seem to have as much talent as some other teams just put it together at the right time and they win it all. It's also not easy at all to predict when it's going to happen. Like 93 for example, we didn't win but MTL did and were they considered to be a contender? The answer is no, isn't it? So it's all BS talk anyway, who's to say where to draw the line and say these teams are contenders and these teams aren't. Make the playoffs, get hot at the right time, maybe have a bit of luck as well and there a lot of teams who have shot at going all the way.
Anyhow, I just had a peek at the cup odds for the first time and there seems to be a clear top tier with 3 teams around +600. Then Toronto at +1000, CAR/BOS at +1400 and then we have NYI/MTL at +2000 followed by DAL at +2200. MTL makes me say that take all these numbers with a grain of salt but other than that they seem reasonable and would seem to indicate that TOR and NYI should both be considered contenders. On the other hand, we've been contenders for many years now and we all know, that doesn't really mean anything.
Gary Nylund
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Yup. And when they're as old as Ovechkin was when WSH won it all, we can plan the parade.
zeke
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I mean, it might mean we shouldn't trade them at age 23, at least.
The90
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I think Bergeron has certain things in his game better than Tavares, but you literally listed all the things he’s good at. He goes to the tough areas, is selfless, cycles well doesn’t shy away etc. Probably the thing that surprised me the most when he came to the leafs was his willingness to go and play through the tough areas.
deprw
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You're talking about era without salary cap and that gave rich franchises chance to build their roster up year after year. They didn't have to get rid of players, they could just add players. On that era good teams didn't lose their edge the way Tampa Bay lost their whole 3rd line. That also changes leagues landscape whole lot, so it doesn't mean that you have to even add, if you're on the right side of the curve on the right time. Avalanche had great chance last season and now they lost some depth, they couldn't add.
There has been critique towards Dubas, because of the deadline adds, but is that viable, if all the other great teams did just that and we glorify them (rightly so). Last season we had our best opening after we started rebuild. It was no brainer to add and nope we didn't have Tavares in that series, so we played without our star center. In this era it's hard to sustain, when you can't have same kind of roster depth you could at the start of the 00s and 90s.
Look forward to next season, it's right there. Atlantic will be exciting division, since Tampa Bay lost lots of depth and Boston is aging. Florida has best team they ever had and even Ottawa trending upwards. Anything can happen.
There has been critique towards Dubas, because of the deadline adds, but is that viable, if all the other great teams did just that and we glorify them (rightly so). Last season we had our best opening after we started rebuild. It was no brainer to add and nope we didn't have Tavares in that series, so we played without our star center. In this era it's hard to sustain, when you can't have same kind of roster depth you could at the start of the 00s and 90s.
Look forward to next season, it's right there. Atlantic will be exciting division, since Tampa Bay lost lots of depth and Boston is aging. Florida has best team they ever had and even Ottawa trending upwards. Anything can happen.
Both teams were complete joke when Sakic and Yzerman started playing for them. They never had anyone like Marner, Willie, Reilly, and JT joining them in the 3rd year.
Didn’t the Nords drafted Three 1St overalls in a row after having Sakic?
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Depends on the return package.
If Tb wants Marner for Vas, I will do that deal right away.
