Athletic: Dubas Job on the Line this Season (contract expiring after this season)

[zeke]

This list didnt get any conversation last time it was posted but it should

If i was at my computer i would post my list showing the length of tenure main contributing homegrown players had on specifically tampa before winning a cup

We arent even close in terms of our top players from drafter to winning versus years with team

Then our farm players after an empty run.. are finally maturing and coming to mirror what tampa has gotten.. guess what, close to the timeframe that the tampa players had

Yeah TB got over the hump when the group of Cirelli 22, Cernak 22, Segachev 21 became key secondary player that season.

 

[andora]

Yeah TB got over the hump when the group of Cirelli 22, Cernak 22, Segachev 21 became key secondary player that season.

Yes and that coincides with management pushing the go button. Cirelli was 2nd season, sergachev 3rd season and cernak 2nd season

Once it was seen they had some players they went and did the fabled coleman and goodrow trades and away they went

Torontos players are nearing that supplement from below, providing in theory a 10 year player making each draft pick a little more expendable to add to the middle

If tampa gets mentioned as much as they do for the comparison.. the comparison needs to understand they had an 8 year head start in theory

 

[Racer88]

Yeah, only horrible organizations like Tampa and Colorado hire "rookie" GMs and coaches. Those teams have zero accountability and will obviously never win.

Did Tampa or Colorado’s rookie GM’s tie up 50% of their cap n 4 forwards

 

[keonsbitterness]

That's quite the assumption you've made. That's not guaranteed at all.

It is and you know it.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Did Tampa or Colorado’s rookie GM’s tie up 50% of their cap n 4 forwards

They both tied up 50% of their cap in players that provide impact comparable to our 4.

It is and you know it.

I know that it's not guaranteed at all.

 

[Racer88]

They both tied up 50% of their cap in players that provide impact comparable to our 4.

I know that it's not. We all know that.

That wasn’t my question. If Dubas has spent that 50% on 2 forwards 1 stud D and a top goalie I would not have as much of a problem with him

 

[Dekes For Days]

That wasn’t my question. If Dubas has spent that 50% on 2 forwards 1 stud D and a top goalie I would not have as much of a problem with him

But it should be your question, because you're so focused on the 4 forwards thing when it's really quite irrelevant, and what's important is whether we're getting the same value and impact from that cap space. We have a stud D, and we are one of the best defensive teams in the league, so it's not like we've even been prevented from addressing other areas. There is no top goalie available to spend big money on, and Colorado isn't invested big into goaltending. You have to work with the hand you're dealt to some extent, and just like those other teams, we have.

 

[Felix the Cat Potvin]

Team Dubas

Bunting-Tavares-Galchenyuk
Robertson-Kerfoot-Kase
Foligno-Kampf-Blackwell
Malgin-Petan-Anderson

Muzzin-Barrie
Sandin-Brodie
Mete-Lyubushkin

Murray
Mrazek

 

[zeke]

Team Dubas

Bunting-Tavares-Galchenyuk
Robertson-Kerfoot-Kase
Foligno-Kampf-Blackwell
Malgin-Petan-Anderson

Muzzin-Barrie
Sandin-Brodie
Mete-Lyubushkin

Murray
Mrazek

seems you're including some guys who are gone but not others.

if we look at the change from what he inherited:

Anderson 29 ----> Murray 28
McElhinney 35 --> Samsonov 25


Gardiner 28 -----> Muzzin 33
Zaitsev 27 -------> Brodie 32
Hainsey 37 ------> Giordano 39
Polak 32 ---------> Liljegren 23
Dermott 22 -----> Sandin 22


Kadri 28 -------> Tavares 32
Hyman 26 ------> Bunting 27
JVR 29 ---------> Kerfoot 28

Bozak 32 ------> Jarnkrok 31
Brown 25 ------> Engvall 26
Marleau 39 -----> NAK 26

Plekanec 36 ----> Kampf 27
Komarov 32 ----> ZAR 28
Kapanen 22 ----> Robertson 21
Johnsson 24 ---> Holmberg 23/Steeves 23/Abruzzese 23/Anderson 24

 

[ALine]

Team Dubas

Bunting-Tavares-Galchenyuk
Robertson-Kerfoot-Kase
Foligno-Kampf-Blackwell
Malgin-Petan-Anderson

Muzzin-Barrie
Sandin-Brodie
Mete-Lyubushkin

Murray
Mrazek

Is this to show that no GM’s builds an entire team through there own signings and trades?
Fellow GM since 2018 and 2 time Stanley Cup winner BriesBois would agree with you.

Paul-???-Hagel
Bellamare-???-Perry
Maroon-???-???
???-???-???

Cole-Myers
Fleury-???
???-???

Elliot
???

Can you elaborate on the point of your Team Dubas exercise and why even include guys that aren’t even here anymore?

 

[Stamkos4life]

Yeah, only horrible organizations like Tampa and Colorado hire "rookie" GMs and coaches. Those teams have zero accountability and will obviously never win.

Did either team go through 4 consecutive first round losses while holding onto their rookies?

Clearly they hired the right people and had results. The same cannot be said about the Leafs.

 

[andora]

Did either team go through 4 consecutive first round losses while holding onto their rookies?

Clearly they hired the right people and had results. The same cannot be said about the Leafs.

To be fair i think the point is they stuck with them developed a program and were rewarded

There were couple spots where bednar could have been fired, i think cooper had one low point..

 

[Dekes For Days]

Did either team go through 4 consecutive first round losses while holding onto their rookies?

Keefe hasn't been here for 4, for the record, and both teams went through significant low moments with their GM/coaches. You're moving the goalpost anyway. Even if you disagree with what Dubas/Keefe specifically have done, there's nothing inherently wrong with hiring a "rookie" GM or coach.

 

[kb]

Keefe hasn't been here for 4, for the record, and both teams went through significant low moments with their GM/coaches. You're moving the goalpost anyway. Even if you disagree with what Dubas/Keefe specifically have done, there's nothing inherently wrong with hiring a "rookie" GM or coach.

That means that Tampa and Colorado must have screwed up by hiring rookie coaches and GM's too.

 

[deprw]

Dubas should have been fired 2 years ago. No playoff success & poor drafting. Too much money to, too few players , thus inability to keep their own good developed players now or for the future. Other than that, he's great!

If you fire GMs after 2 or 3 seasons, it's better to sell whole franchise and move it to sun belt. You're never gonna win anything anyway.

 

[Racer88]

But it should be your question, because you're so hung up on the 4 forwards thing when it's really quite irrelevant, and what's important is whether we're getting the same value and impact from that cap space. We have a stud D, and we are one of the best defensive teams in the league, so it's not like we've even been prevented from addressing other areas. There is no top goalie available to spend big money on. To some extent, you have to work with the situations that are available to you, and we have.

If you fire GMs after 2 or 3 seasons, it's better to sell whole franchise and move it to sun belt. You're never gonna win anything anyway.

How many years of failure are you willing to give them…….especially Shanny. He is at 6 first round failure and counting

 

[killer1980]

Keefe hasn't been here for 4, for the record, and both teams went through significant low moments with their GM/coaches. You're moving the goalpost anyway. Even if you disagree with what Dubas/Keefe specifically have done, there's nothing inherently wrong with hiring a "rookie" GM or coach.

Agreed! Just don't hire one who has no clue. And you certainly don't hire one that would rather be pals with his players than the boss.

 

[Felix the Cat Potvin]

Is this to show that no GM’s builds an entire team through there own signings and trades?
Fellow GM since 2018 and 2 time Stanley Cup winner BriesBois would agree with you.

Paul-???-Hagel
Bellamare-???-Perry
Maroon-???-???
???-???-???

Cole-Myers
Fleury-???
???-???

Elliot
???

Can you elaborate on the point of your Team Dubas exercise and why even include guys that aren’t even here anymore?

I think you left out a few key guys acquired by Brisebois, like Coleman, Goodrow, Shattenkirk, Savard, etc.

My exercise was just trying to get a general picture of the players Dubas acquired to help get us over the hump. That this list of players upsets some posters without any commentary attached to it should be a sign that it isn't a sparkling resume I guess.

 

[Menzinger]

How many years of failure are you willing to give them…….especially Shanny. He is at 6 first round failure and counting

Front offices need somewhere in the range of 4-6 years to get a rebuild/retool in place (enough time to clear out an old core, allow prospects time to develop) and then one gains a better idea as to whether or not they've managed to build a good team or not.

After that it becomes a matter of if one thinks the plan is working/worth continuing

 

[PromisedLand]

Finally had a chance to look at this today....

"Interesting"..... I guess...

 

[Stamkos4life]

To be fair i think the point is they stuck with them developed a program and were rewarded

There were couple spots where bednar could have been fired, i think cooper had one low point..

To be fair, both teams won at least one round during their first four years which makes it that much easier to hold on to said rookies.

If you have zero results, you aren't going to last as long as someone who does.

 

[Stamkos4life]

Keefe hasn't been here for 4, for the record, and both teams went through significant low moments with their GM/coaches. You're moving the goalpost anyway. Even if you disagree with what Dubas/Keefe specifically have done, there's nothing inherently wrong with hiring a "rookie" GM or coach.

No goal post moving here. People who accomplish less won't last as long as people who do. It's fairly elementary.

I'd say there is something inheritently wrong when the president, gm and coach are all rookies. At least someone should have prior experience.

Sorry, Keefe has been here for almost 3 years while dubas and Shanahan have been here for 8.

8 years without even one series win is wild.

If you fire GMs after 2 or 3 seasons, it's better to sell whole franchise and move it to sun belt. You're never gonna win anything anyway.

Is that what you said when Lou was let go? Or nonis?

 

[Stamkos4life]

That wasn’t my question. If Dubas has spent that 50% on 2 forwards 1 stud D and a top goalie I would not have as much of a problem with him

We have almost 50% of the cap in 4 forwards.

The lightning have it in 2 forwards, a vezina level goalie and a norris level dman.

The Aves have it in 3 forwards and a Norris level dman.

That's quite a big difference. Not to mention those teams forwards tend to out produce ours during the postseason.

 

[LeafEgo]

Did either team go through 4 consecutive first round losses while holding onto their rookies?

Clearly they hired the right people and had results. The same cannot be said about the Leafs.

I would add that obviously if Dubas started his nhl mgmt career in 2001 or played 20 nhl seasons with multiple cups prior to his apprenticeship years people wouldn't be harping on the rookie label.

Delving into semantics is missing the point - probably on purpose.

 

[andora]

To be fair, both teams won at least one round during their first four years which makes it that much easier to hold on to said rookies.

If you have zero results, you aren't going to last as long as someone who does.

Yeah fair enough.. i think for me the patience part was when bednar couldnt get out of the second round i think 3 times and cooper after the columbus

But youre right.. they all had something

I would add that obviously if Dubas started his nhl mgmt career in 2001 or played 20 nhl seasons with multiple cups prior to his apprenticeship years people wouldn't be harping on the rookie label.

Delving into semantics is missing the point - probably on purpose.

But that is not the situation with such intensity around it