Athletic: Dubas Job on the Line this Season (contract expiring after this season)

[andora]

Now do Montreal, or explain why Florida is looked on favourably.

Also, Matthews is better than any of those players, Marner slides in after MacKinnon and Nylander/Tavares are around or above Landeskog.

Also, their goaltending had a lot of questions and even more this year, that seems to be the big knock against the Leafs, funny that were favourites last year.

Do you have marner higher than rantanen all things considered.. stats style season and playoffs and contract

Contract not really a factor based on player type i suppose

 

[IPS]

Yes, they would, but there is a narrative because they are the Leafs, Florida doesn't have a narrative around them and they bought a round and then got swept last year, they had 1 more win than the Leafs and 2 more losses.

Thank you for admitting it!

So series wins are a valid indicator of progress towards a cup. No "yes and no" twist needed. We're not montreal with an aging goalie and changing team or Florida with an older core that just lost their top-scorer.

We're a team that got very lucky to draft an elite core - much like Colorado, Tampa, or to a lesser extent Carolina. Had those teams had our history of losing in the 1st round, they would be looked upon much the same way as us right now.

Kind of baffling I have to explain this - but I get it that things aren't so clear in the kiddie pool sometimes.

 

[Racer88]

Now do Montreal, or explain why Florida is looked on favourably.

Also, Matthews is better than any of those players, Marner slides in after MacKinnon and Nylander/Tavares are around or above Landeskog.

Also, their goaltending had a lot of questions and even more this year, that seems to be the big knock against the Leafs, funny that were favourites last year.

I agree with you evaluation of where Marner and Matthew slot in but I think you are off tract when you group Tavares and Nylander together as a comparison to Landeskog. Tavares and Nylander cost a lot more then Landeskof and that fact damages the Leafs ability to pay up for better supporting players

 

[saffronleaf]

My prediction: the team will lose in game 7 of the 1st round, but they will have played a resilient and gutsy game 5, and on that basis Doobust will be extended for 5 years.

 

[IPS]

Typical cheap tactics.

You fully agree that series outcomes matter but it's not the only thing that matters.

Obviously that poster is smart enough to know the difference between the Habs and Avs that offset the series outcomes, just like how the Leafs are dissected within their own specific system. Nobody has the energy right now to drop another 10 paragraph essay on that, it's been beaten to death all summer to the point Shanahan didn't extend Dubas yet.

It's textbook false equivalence.

The standard changes literally every argument for the cult.

One day playoff "outcomes" don't matter because as long as you play well in the series everything is ay-ok but when Tampa gets swept by Columbus that gets to be our new example of why you don't change things and just stick with it and apparently how you play in a playoff series gets thrown out the window.

 

[Racer88]

i would love to know what else in a playoff series could be considered a result other then if you won or or not………please someone put me out of my misery

My prediction: the team will lose in game 7 of the 1st round, but they will have played a resilient and gutsy game 5, and on that basis Doobust will be extended for 5 years.

You are forgetting mad respect in the handshake line

 

[notbias]

Thank you for admitting it!

So series wins are a valid indicator of progress towards a cup. No "yes and no" twist needed. We're not montreal with an aging goalie and changing team or Florida with an older core that just lost their top-scorer.

We're a team that got very lucky to draft an elite core - much like Colorado, Tampa, or to a lesser extent Carolina. Had those teams had our history of losing in the 1st round, they would be looked upon much the same way as us right now.

Kind of baffling I have to explain this - but I get it that things aren't so clear in the kiddie pool sometimes.

Colorado was cup favourites and couldn't exit the second round, doesn't sound like people agree with you.. when did I ever agree with you? Why are you making things up?

Do you have marner higher than rantanen all things considered.. stats style season and playoffs and contract

Contract not really a factor based on player type i suppose

Marner is arguably the best winger in the game, plays all situations, and excels. Rantanen is really good, but he isn't a top 3 winger (which Marner is at worst)

I agree with you evaluation of where Marner and Matthew slot in but I think you are off tract when you group Tavares and Nylander together as a comparison to Landeskog. Tavares and Nylander cost a lot more then Landeskof and that fact damages the Leafs ability to pay up for better supporting players

Landeskog is overrated and Tavares is underrated. I disagree with your evaluation, I think Landeskog is around Nylander level but Tavares is better than both.

 

[All Mod Cons]

My prediction: the team will lose in game 7 of the 1st round, but they will have played a resilient and gutsy game 5, and on that basis Doobust will be extended for 5 years.

Oh man, way to go out on a limb. Haha

 

[andora]

Colorado was cup favourites and couldn't exit the second round, doesn't sound like people agree with you.. when did I ever agree with you? Why are you making things up?



Marner is arguably the best winger in the game, plays all situations, and excels. Rantanen is really good, but he isn't a top 3 winger (which Marner is at worst)

Ok fair enough.. personally i take rantanen over him but all good

I think both are top 10

 

[rocketman588]

There are more playoff results than just the series outcome. That is a true statement, and that statement is not the same as saying "series outcomes don't matter", which is a statement you made up and falsely attributed to me, despite the fact that I had literally just responded to you with the complete opposite statement "Series outcomes matter." You seem to be taking the fact that it's not the only thing that matters when evaluating a GM's performance, and somehow equating that to it not mattering at all.

There is nothing that is important to a series other then outcome. Anything else is just an excuse

Spin backtrack then claim your being misquoted then spin

What are you going to do when Dubas gets fired in less then a year? I guess you can go on the Sudbury Wolves message board to claim playoff losses are luck when he doesn't win in that league either

 

[81Leafs50]

They say this shit every season. Bu then the Leafs end up Top 5 with a top 5 PP and PK. Dubas cannot win the games himself. The players need to get the job done. Changing the GM doesnt change anything. New GM will tinker with bottom 6 and goaltending. Makes no difference.

 

[All Mod Cons]

They say this shit every season. Bu then the Leafs end up Top 5 with a top 5 PP and PK. Dubas cannot win the games himself. The players need to get the job done. Changing the GM doesnt change anything. New GM will tinker with bottom 6 and goaltending. Makes no difference.

You sure?

 

[Osmows OReilly]

They say this shit every season. Bu then the Leafs end up Top 5 with a top 5 PP and PK. Dubas cannot win the games himself. The players need to get the job done. Changing the GM doesnt change anything. New GM will tinker with bottom 6 and goaltending. Makes no difference.

What if the core can't get it done no matter the changes this GM and the next one makes, assuming the core stays together? Do we just watch them lose in the first or second round for the rest of their careers? Eventually some major change has to be made.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Yup. If the play ins weren't considered as part of the playoffs, then why does the NHL have the Leafs tied for 4th with the NHL's longest current active playoff streak with 6 consecutive years?


All the playoff deniers should be angrily writing the NHL and tell them that their own rules are wrong because feelings about it are more important than facts (kinda like every other thread).

It's ultimately beside the point whether a poster considers 2020 losing in the first round or missing the playoffs. Neither is flattering to recent Leafs history.

Not a great team overall, but great defensively, and good overall.

Of course that rusty bubble fake playoffs after months off was all BS anyways.

Or you can take zeke's approach and just dismiss 2020 as entirely illegitimate.

 

[All Mod Cons]

What if the core can't get it done no matter the changes this GM and the next one makes, assuming the core stays together? Do we just watch them lose in the first or second round for the rest of their careers? Eventually some major change has to be made.

I think we have to. Ovechkin took a long time. Sundin never won it. I think we have to keep them forever in case they turn out to be Ray Borque. We're frozen with fear.

 

[Havoc]

They say this shit every season. Bu then the Leafs end up Top 5 with a top 5 PP and PK. Dubas cannot win the games himself. The players need to get the job done. Changing the GM doesnt change anything. New GM will tinker with bottom 6 and goaltending. Makes no difference.

lol tinkering the goalie is whatever?

If you guess right on goaltending it can make your entire season. Our current GM does not have a good track record with goalies.

Goalies play such a huge factor that if our current tandem works out, Dubas will go from public enemy no.1 straight to GM of the year. @All Mod Cons will make the Dubas Passed the Tests thread himself if our tandem turns out to be a brick wall and racks up some series wins.

Don't even get me started on our "depth" choices. I'm just glad we at least have a 4th line now. Been a while. I'd like to think not having one for so long is not the norm around the league.

 

[hamzarocks]

Now do Montreal, or explain why Florida is looked on favourably.

Also, Matthews is better than any of those players, Marner slides in after MacKinnon and Nylander/Tavares are around or above Landeskog.

Also, their goaltending had a lot of questions and even more this year, that seems to be the big knock against the Leafs, funny that were favourites last year.

Makar/Mack/Matthews are in the exact same tier of player with Makar and Matthews having the most All time potential of the three

Marner and Rantanen are a half tier behind those 3.

 

[All Mod Cons]

lol tinkering the goalie is whatever?

If you guess right on goaltending it can make your entire season. Our current GM does not have a good track record with goalies.

Goalies play such a huge factor that if our current tandem works out, Dubas will go from public enemy no.1 straight to GM of the year. @All Mod Cons will make the Dubas Passed the Tests thread himself if our tandem turns out to be a brick wall and racks up some series wins.

Don't even get me started on our "depth" choices. I'm just glad we at least have a 4th line now. Been a while. I'd like to think not having one for so long is not the norm around the league.

Absolutely. If anything ever arises that only an above average GM could achieve, I'll be singing his name from the rafters.

 

[Dekes For Days]

The leafs lost the “play in” so no they didn’t make the playoffs.

The Leafs made the playoffs, as defined by the NHL, so yes, they did make the playoffs.

No. There is 4 wins, then 4 wins, then 4 wins and finally, 4 wins. In one play off season

Yes, that is how you win the cup.
No, that doesn't have anything to do with anything being discussed.

Winning is all that matters in sports

Literally wins and losses are the definition of results…

There is nothing that is important to a series other then outcome.

Series wins and losses are one type of result. It may be the most important or only type of result that you care about as a sports fan, and you may want a pointless blood sacrifice to take out your anger at not getting it, but there is more to evaluating a GM's performance than just looking at their team's playoff series outcomes.

Obviously that poster is smart enough to know the difference between the Habs and Avs that offset the series outcomes

So in other words, there's obviously more to be considered than exclusively past playoff series outcomes, right?

 

[Racer88]

Colorado was cup favourites and couldn't exit the second round, doesn't sound like people agree with you.. when did I ever agree with you? Why are you making things up?



Marner is arguably the best winger in the game, plays all situations, and excels. Rantanen is really good, but he isn't a top 3 winger (which Marner is at worst)



Landeskog is overrated and Tavares is underrated. I disagree with your evaluation, I think Landeskog is around Nylander level but Tavares is better than both.

Fair enough

 

[Leaf Fans]

i would love to know what else in a playoff series could be considered a result other then if you won or or not………please someone put me out of my misery


You are forgetting mad respect in the handshake line

What is wrong with getting respect in the handshake line?

 

[keonsbitterness]

Series wins and losses are one type of result. It may be the most important or only type of result that you care about as a sports fan, and you may want a pointless blood sacrifice to take out your anger at not getting it, but there is more to evaluating a GM's performance than just looking at their team's playoff series outcomes.

It seems ownership/upper management doesn't share your evaluation process. It's now guaranteed Dubas will be gone if there is another 1st round exit.

 

[LeafEgo]

What is wrong with getting respect in the handshake line?

Talking about it in the post presser.

 

[Racer88]

What is wrong with getting respect in the handshake line?

I suppose nothing much until the management puts it out there like it’s acceptable.

 

[socko]

You can fire him but you can never undo the young talent he inherited and wasted. Don't even bother if Shanahan isn't included.