Athletic: Dubas Job on the Line this Season (contract expiring after this season)

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Reason play-ins got associate with playoffs is because the player stats need to be recorded somewhere and it can't be recorded in regular season stats. So all teams who made play-ins get participation ribbon for playoffs, then the real playoff teams are in the real round 1. When Shanahan evaluate Dubas he won't consider it playoffs especially since shanahan is from the old school era and would look at it as participation ribbon too.

If we are more concern with technicalities then sure they have a playoff streak if we are concern with success they dont have a playoff streak (I meant 7 year streak not streak).

You have it backwards - the only reason anyone can say the Leafs didn't make the playoffs that year is because the play ins existed.

If the play ins didn't exist, then the Leafs make the playoffs that year due tontheir playoffs caliber regular season record.
 
You have it backwards - the only reason anyone can say the Leafs didn't make the playoffs that year is because the play ins existed.

If the play ins didn't exist, then the Leafs make the playoffs that year due tontheir playoffs caliber regular season record.
If I did agree with you that it's credible as real playoffs, that is even worse. That's round 0, not even round 1. Round 0 is even weaker and dilute than round 1, so the Leafs can't get out round 1 comments needs to be downgrade to Leafs can't get out of round 0 (indexed to 5 rounds that end in #4). 8th seed versus 9th to show the dilution.

So pick your poison. We either have incoming 7 year streak and can't get out of round 0, or it was participation ribbon playoffs that ruin the streak and we are a team that can't get out round 1.

Like I said, if you want to focus on technicalities go ahead, but for purpose of evaluation and getting happy endings soon, we should be more strict on how we look at 2020.
 
If I did agree with you that it's credible as real playoffs, that is even worse. That's round 0, not even round 1. Round 0 is even weaker and dilute than round 1, so the Leafs can't get out round 1 comments needs to be downgrade to Leafs can't get out of round 0 (indexed to 5 rounds that end in #4). 8th seed versus 9th to show the dilution.

So pick your poison. We either have incoming 7 year streak and can't get out of round 0, or it was participation ribbon playoffs that ruin the streak and we are a team that can't get out round 1.

Like I said, if you want to focus on technicalities go ahead, but for purpose of evaluation and getting happy endings soon, we should be more strict on how we look at 2020.

The Leafs were a playoffs caliber team that year by the rules that have existed for all of league history.

The only reason some could argue they weren't a playoffs team is because the play ins existed. Of course, even then, the league counts them as playoffs anyways.
 
I know it's hard to believe that there's actually a point at which the MLSE board actually starts caring about the spending of its hockey enterprise. Think this: they've had sub-optimal revenues for 3 straight seasons. The hockey operations has hired specialists of every stripe along with a seemingly endless list of probably useless email positions most of which don't translate to a more saleable product or additional revenues. There has to eventually be a tipping point. Somewhere along the way the MLSE board has to see this affect the bottom line and most importantly their personal compensation through bonuses.
 
You're making a lot of unsubstantiated assumptions here about what Shanahan thinks and would do. Not sure what a Buffalo GM extension has to do with anything. They're in an entirely different situation and stage of development, and they're going to grasp onto anything remotely positive as they try to emerge from one of the biggest tire fire messes of the modern era. Shanahan has had plenty of positive and complimentary things to say about Dubas.

Nobody said that. Series outcomes matter. They're just far from all that matters when evaluating a GM's performance.
I get what he was inferring fine tbh. Stating the obvious really that it's more likely reasons for losing are being pinned on Dubas right now in some capacity, even though we have no idea the measure of that capacity.

Circumstances and stages are infinite possibilities, but whether your boss thinks yes or no for something is either 0 or 1. In Sabres current stage, their GM has passed the tests :laugh: In Leafs current stage our GM did not, for now.
 
If you'd have told everyone on May 12th, 2018, we wouldn't have won a playoff series to date, they'd have accused you of being a hater of woolen cardigans and optical assistance.
 
Recent history hasn’t been kind to the Leafs for management. He has produced the best team we’ve had in over 40 years, but he has also been given the best situation, while making some glaring mistakes.

I don’t even know what to say. The grass isn’t always greener, and if Dubas could somehow learn he needs grit, learn how to negotiate star deals and not money ball the goaltending position he could actually be our best bet for the future.

The issues for this franchise seem to run much deeper than the GM position. The winning culture just isn’t there and we’ve seen quite a few players of our past core go on to play vital roles on winning teams
You may have something there.....perhaps a dressing room cancer? Lack of leadership? The core don't strike me as warriors (esp Nylander). In the playoffs grit & determination are key and we have such a soft, rudderless team. I also don't think Tavares should be Captain...many things need to be changed.
 
The Leafs were a playoffs caliber team that year by the rules that have existed for all of league history.

The only reason some could argue they weren't a playoffs team is because the play ins existed. Of course, even then, the league counts them as playoffs anyways.
Yup. If the play ins weren't considered as part of the playoffs, then why does the NHL have the Leafs tied for 4th with the NHL's longest current active playoff streak with 6 consecutive years?


All the playoff deniers should be angrily writing the NHL and tell them that their own rules are wrong because feelings about it are more important than facts (kinda like every other thread).
 
The Leafs were a playoffs caliber team that year by the rules that have existed for all of league history.

The only reason some could argue they weren't a playoffs team is because the play ins existed. Of course, even then, the league counts them as playoffs anyways.
I didn't say Leafs weren't a playoff caliber team. My opinion of the roster since matthews era is very high. You are focusing on the wrong things in my point.

I also agreed technically Leafs made the playoff, but showed why from evaluation it doesn't mean much from a 7 year streak view. Playoff brackets dont even include the play-ins, the play-ins are used to make the brackets. The general opinion doesn't value play-ins as playoffs highly. It is only valued high if you are focused on making sure the technical rules are upheld, technical classifications highly influenced by needing the stats to be kept somewhere with regular season not being an option for them.

Also, of most importance as far as we are concerned, by the rules that have existed for all of league history, Jackets were not a playoff calibre team being the 9th ranked seed in the east by points %, and we lost to them in round 0. So it doesn't matter if I agree it wasnt playoffs or not. Any view you take sucks for us.
 
It's pointless semantics to argue over whether or not the Columbus series was a playoff series or not. If you generously treat it as a special circumstance playoff series as the NHL stats do that does not preclude it as a failure season. They lost to a team destined to be a sub-500 non-playoff team in an epic fashion, failing to score in the clutch, with all games at their home arena, practising in their our facilities, sleeping in their own beds. Give them their 6th consecutive playoff qualifications. It goes hand in hand with the franchise's 6 consecutive playoff losses.
 
I get what he was inferring fine tbh. Stating the obvious really that it's more likely reasons for losing are being pinned on Dubas right now in some capacity, even though we have no idea the measure of that capacity. Circumstances and stages are infinite possibilities, but whether your boss thinks yes or no for something is either 0 or 1. In Sabres current stage, their GM has passed the tests In Leafs current stage our GM did not, for now.
The only thing we know is that one team gave an early extension, and one team in an entirely different situation didn't. Why and what that means aren't known, but both teams are happy with their GM going into this year, which is why they remain. Buffalo's GM really just had to not be a complete tire fire, which isn't exactly a high bar to pass.
 
Yup. If the play ins weren't considered as part of the playoffs, then why does the NHL have the Leafs tied for 4th with the NHL's longest current active playoff streak with 6 consecutive years?


All the playoff deniers should be angrily writing the NHL and tell them that their own rules are wrong because feelings about it are more important than facts (kinda like every other thread).
you cant keep those records in regular season. it has to be a playoff record. Value it as you wish. I get the sense you been a fan for a while though and find some stink to that diluted round no matter what the record books say.
 
It's pointless semantics to argue over whether or not the Columbus series was a playoff series or not. If you generously treat it as a special circumstance playoff series as the NHL stats do that does not preclude it as a failure season. They lost to a team destined to be a sub-500 non-playoff team in an epic fashion, failing to score in the clutch, with all games at their home arena, practising in their our facilities, sleeping in their own beds. Give them their 6th consecutive playoff qualifications. It goes hand in hand with the franchise's 6 consecutive playoff losses.
It's not actually pointless semantics if we are using consistent playoff making as a pre-cursor dubas is on a cup path. The Jackets series is only useful if discussing NHL rules, it is not useful as a "pro" to decide dubas is the guy we need to extend and all things are going well. The Jackets series counters all that. Jackets aren't even in seeds 1-8
 
Yup. If the play ins weren't considered as part of the playoffs, then why does the NHL have the Leafs tied for 4th with the NHL's longest current active playoff streak with 6 consecutive years?
All the playoff deniers should be angrily writing the NHL and tell them that their own rules are wrong because feelings about it are more important than facts (kinda like every other thread).
They also have the Penguins streak as ongoing, despite them losing that year. And it's explicitly stated as part of the playoffs in their official playoff format page. It's really amazing that we have people arguing against the NHL themselves to discredit the Leafs.
They lost to a team destined to be a sub-500 non-playoff team in an epic fashion, failing to score in the clutch, with all games at their home arena, practising in their our facilities, sleeping in their own beds.
Columbus was well above 0.500, was tied for 13th in the league despite considerable injury impacts that year, and was the best defensive team in the NHL - who also ended up getting 0.950+ goaltending in our series before they went on to set the all-time playoff save record. The Leafs were also not sleeping in their own beds or getting home arena advantages. They were in a bubble isolated from the outside world for an extended period of time, and it was a shortened series in August in front of no fans, after not skating for almost 5 months. You can be disappointed in the outcome without misrepresenting who we faced, and the situation it was faced in.
 
The Leafs were a playoffs caliber team that year by the rules that have existed for all of league history.
of most importance as far as we are concerned, by the rules that have existed for all of league history, Jackets were not a playoff calibre team being the 9th ranked seed in the east by points %, and we lost to them in round 0. So it doesn't matter if I agree it wasnt playoffs or not. Any view you take sucks for us.

Well damn, fair again.
 
It's pointless semantics to argue over whether or not the Columbus series was a playoff series or not. If you generously treat it as a special circumstance playoff series as the NHL stats do that does not preclude it as a failure season. They lost to a team destined to be a sub-500 non-playoff team in an epic fashion, failing to score in the clutch, with all games at their home arena, practising in their our facilities, sleeping in their own beds. Give them their 6th consecutive playoff qualifications. It goes hand in hand with the franchise's 6 consecutive playoff losses.
Columbus were a great team apparently. Imagine telling one of the hyper fans that before the series. Proper lolz.
 
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You're making a lot of unsubstantiated assumptions here about what Shanahan thinks and would do. Not sure what a Buffalo GM extension has to do with anything. They're in an entirely different situation and stage of development, and they're going to grasp onto anything remotely positive as they try to emerge from one of the biggest tire fire messes of the modern era. Shanahan has had plenty of positive and complimentary things to say about Dubas.

Nobody said that. Series outcomes matter. They're just far from all that matters when evaluating a GM's performance.


You literally said series outcomes don't matter "series are more then winning and losing them"

In a playoff series the only thing that matters is winning it.

The only person that doesn't impact is Kyle Dubas according to you
 
You literally said series outcomes don't matter "series are more then winning and losing them"
In a playoff series the only thing that matters is winning it.
The only person that doesn't impact is Kyle Dubas according to you
I did not say "series outcomes don't matter". In fact, I literally said the exact opposite to you and you've ignored it. It's just not the only thing that matters in a proper evaluation of a GM's performance, even if it's the only thing that matters to you as a fan. Also, everything I said about GM evaluation applies to everybody in general, not just to Dubas. And it will remain true when Dubas wins playoff series. Please do not misrepresent the things that other people say.
 
It's really amazing that we have people arguing against the NHL themselves to discredit the Leafs.
Except nobody did. The rules are acknowledged and accepted, only context has been added.

It's really amazing you like post about all time league rules classifying Leafs as playoff calibre, but then 2 seconds later go against all time league rules that say Jackets were not playoff calibre and convince people they were a good opponent? How are you supposed to be taken serious now?
 
Columbus were a great team apparently. Imagine telling one of the hyper fans that before the series. Proper lolz.

Not a great team overall, but great defensively, and good overall.

Of course that rusty bubble fake playoffs after months off was all BS anyways.
 
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