Athletic: Dubas Job on the Line this Season (contract expiring after this season)

[geo25]

Stevie Y left to further his legend tbh

He's one of the best DRW ever. If he can build a super contender along with his playing career he probably gets remmebered as the bgreat DRW individual ever (ahead if Howe, Lidstrom etc)

What's a DRW??

 

[ACC1224]

What's a DRW??

TMLs bitch

 

[geo25]

Then you haven't been looking. The issue is that some people have this belief that Dubas is the devil and is single-handedly destroying a dynasty team, so anybody that doesn't despise him with every essence of their being, or anybody that corrects the lies and misrepresentations that are spread about him and the things that happen, are considered to be in love with him, when they're really just a fan of reasonable and logical fact-based evaluation and legitimate hockey discussion.

His playoff results do not suck. His playoff series outcomes haven't been good. There's a difference. It sounds like the problem you're having is just putting way, way, way too much emphasis on the team's contextless playoff series outcomes when evaluating the GM's overall performance. I know that those outcomes are important to you, just as they are to me, but that's far from the only measure one should be using.

So much double talk....just come out and state the facts...he cannot win in the playoffs....and hasn't in multiple attempts. Stop sugar coating your nonsense bs....he deserves to be fired...should have been last year.

 

[geo25]

But it's not haterd, it's the fact that right now he's failing based on his playoff results there is a difference between hate and trashing someone because they are failing.

Kyle Dubas gets trashed because Kyle Dubas is failing

No one hates him....I don't. I think he's a decent human being and very professional. I'm speaking strictly based on playoff results...or, lack of any.

 

[ToneDog]

What's a DRW??

Detroit Red Wings.

 

[geo25]

Detroit Red Wings.

Thanks....for clearing that up.

 

[Gary Nylund]

How many people do you have on ignore that this statement didn't cause a war.

LOL. There's only two that would go to war over this and yes, they're both on mutual ignore. Life is good.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I don't get why people think we wouldn't improve the D without Dubas either. We have no idea what the opportunity cost was to keep Dubas as GM, all we know is we have zero playoff success under Dubas so can't rule out that the opportunity cost was huge. It's fully possible Dubas is not actually great, just fell into favorable conditions with a core whose floor is massively high.

Well said. I think Dubas is a good GM myself but how good? f***ed if I know. He might be really good, like top 5 in the NHL maybe, I think that's possible. And it's also possible that he's just average.

I'm Ok admitting that I'm just not smart enough to state with any degree of confidence just how good he is. I think he's the best GM we've had in a very long time but then again, that's not saying much now is it?

I hope we win the cup this season, or at least go to the finals. And then he gets a new contract and we go to the finals several more times with this core and win multiple cups. It could happen, I really believe that. Would I bet on it? Nope. But it could happen and anyone who thinks it can't happen, yeah I'm also OK with saying I'm probably a bit smarter than they are.

 

[Menzinger]

If the Leafs are such a great regular season team like Dubas defenders claim, then why haven’t they won the Atlantic division once in the last five years? Where are the President’s trophies? The Leafs are overrated in the regular season IMO.

Because the Leafs can't control who else is in the division. They're trying to contend while playing alongside the best/second best team in the league with Tampa. That doesn't give Dubas' a hall pass for every mistake, but it does contextualize the inability to win the division yet (they still ended up in the top 5 in the league regardless).

Just like the Jays can't control the fact they play with the Yankees or Red Sox

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

To be FAIR in my opinion the tavares contract is sandwiched in there and muddies it abit.. for it or against it there are some things in between that matter about the position he was in

Tavares has been worth every dime, there are many, many, MANY things to be critical of Dubas for.

Signing a 27 year old #1 center is not one of them.

You do that every single time.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Because the Leafs can't control who else is in the division. They're trying to contend while playing alongside the best/second best team in the league with Tampa. That doesn't give Dubas' a hall pass for every mistake, but it does contextualize the inability to win the division yet (they still ended up in the top 5 in the league regardless).

Just like the Jays can't control the fact they play with the Yankees or Red Sox

Exactly. The division isn't an excuse that absolves Dubas from all blame. But at the same time, it is a meaningful factor and the people who keep repeating "five consecutive first round exits" as if those 5 words tell the entire story are just being lazy and letting the lynch mob carry them along.

 

[andora]

Tavares has been worth every dime, there are many, many, MANY things to be critical of Dubas for.

Signing a 27 year old #1 center is not one of them.

You do that every single time.

You would need balls not to but it is a factor that did change his position... in my opinion it is disingenuous to say that Lou put him in that position

 

[hotpaws]

Tavares has been worth every dime, there are many, many, MANY things to be critical of Dubas for.

Signing a 27 year old #1 center is not one of them.

You do that every single time.

if he was worth even close to what we gave him we'd have advanced past the 1st rd by now nor would we have some people keep wanting Marner moved to his line so Mitch can carry him

 

[Racer88]

Then you haven't been looking. The issue is that some people have this belief that Dubas is the devil and is single-handedly destroying a dynasty team, so anybody that doesn't despise him with every essence of their being, or anybody that corrects the lies and misrepresentations that are spread about him and the things that happen, are considered to be in love with him, when they're really just a fan of reasonable and logical fact-based evaluation and legitimate hockey discussion.

His playoff results do not suck. His playoff series outcomes haven't been good. There's a difference. It sounds like the problem you're having is just putting way, way, way too much emphasis on the team's contextless playoff series outcomes when evaluating the GM's overall performance. I know that those outcomes are important to you, just as they are to me, but that's far from the only measure one should be using.

His playoff results do suck. Results are results plain and simple, disguising them with a different word doesn’t change what they are.m He has been unable to put together a team that is able to overcome all the hurtles that most successful teams overcome to advance.
Our hurtles have simply become excuse

 

[leafsfan5]

Makes sense, at some point you need to show progress

If we lose in round 1 again everyone should be gone. Shanahan, Dubas and Keefe

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Makes sense, at some point you need to show progress

If we lose in round 1 again everyone should be gone. Shanahan, Dubas and Keefe

I think Dubas and Keefe will be, I think Shanny gets to hire 1 replacement each.

 

[leafsfan5]

I think Dubas and Keefe will be, I think Shanny gets to hire 1 replacement each.

I suspect that as well, though I would prefer to bring in entirely new management

 

[Racer88]

Being in a tough division is absolutely no excuse. Every year teams win rounds and come out of that division……why not us. Are we really reduced to…..awe gee the other teams are tough but we got respect in the hand shake line………because the people running this team seem to be.
There is absolutely no reason that we shouldn’t expect to be the best team in the league, we certainly pay our expenses 4 forwards like we are…….but here we are making excuses

I think Dubas and Keefe will be, I think Shanny gets to hire 1 replacement each.

I could see that

 

[keonsbitterness]

The emphasis on Dubas not having an extension was done for a reason, and it didn't come from Dubas. Ownership/upper management came to the conclusion that a 3rd consecutive "we're bringing the whole gang back" press conference after a 1st-round loss would not fly. Dubas has been told he will be future endeavored if that happens yet again.

Whether you like him or not, Dubas is now officially on the clock.

 

[PromisedLand]

That's as about an unhinged post as I've ever seen.

How long have you been a Leaf fan or watching NHL hockey? Because from that post it seems you started Leaf watching in 2017. Well go back a bit further and check out these Leaf GM's...

- Dave Nonis
- Brian Burke
- John Ferguson Jr
- Floyd Smith
- Gord Stellick
- Gerry McNamara
- Punch Imlach

put in context, and based on results (since you are sooo results oriented, Mr. Intelligent Hockey Fan) Kyle Dubas comes out looking not too bad. Or remain ignorant and continue sounding like a madman - your choice

Context: they were not allowed a rebuild. JFJ wanted a rebuild but Teacher's pension plan (then owners) wouldn't allow him one. They did the same with Burke and then Nonis

When Rogers/Bell took on the ownership, they allowed a rebuild. That IMO is the context

 

[PromisedLand]

But the trade doesn't happen without Lou signing that contract.

Lou put Kyle in that situation it's the same reason I don't blame Dubas for the Zaitsev trade because he didn't give Zaitsev 7 years Lou did.

When Marleau was signed, Tavares was not even in the picture; heck nobody was predicting Matthews and Marner to be around 11 AAV and just 5 to 6 years.

Marleau was brought in to show the youngsters how to be a pro; there was nobody here to guide the rookies team was pretty young.

Kyle put Kyle in that situation by signing Tavares for 11 AAV and then handing out 11 AAV to Marner and Matthews without getting term. Marleau situation was further stressed by Dubas giving Kapanen and Johnsson about 3 AAV each only to then trade them both.

 

[PromisedLand]

I have a question for veteran members of this forum: was this obsessive defence of Dubas common amongst other bad Leafs GMs? Just curious.

Nope! Burke was called out many times and after the salutegate Nonis was made fun off. People were actually cheering for losses with Horachek at the helm behind the bench.

Did you already forget "Fire Wilson" chants or Carlyle "swarm" that got people going here both on the GM and the Coach.

Keefe/Dubas defense is something new that I've never seen on the Leafs board

 

[PromisedLand]

Did Burkie hire shills to defend him in social media and did the same shills rip the previous GM to defend him ?? I could be wrong but IMO nobody "defends" a player, coach, or GM to the death the way some do on this board unless they have an agenda. I mean, we saw two videos posted clearly showing the Holl pick and Willie pulling up, yet one poster responded to the posts that it was not a pick and Willie did not pull up.

I called out Mirtle's tweet few months ago. Nothing rude just pointing out that his points were not making sense and he blocked me lol. Mirtle is the biggest shill out there including the stupid athletic he runs.

 

[PromisedLand]

The emphasis on Dubas not having an extension was done for a reason, and it didn't come from Dubas. Ownership/upper management came to the conclusion that a 3rd consecutive "we're bringing the whole gang back" press conference after a 1st-round loss would not fly. Dubas has been told he will be future endeavored if that happens yet again.

Whether you like him or not, Dubas is now officially on the clock.

Not sure how true this is but from business pov with prices increasing like crazy and cost of living going up; I suspect MLSE has already factored this into their revenue stream this season. With a lot of folks (I am almost there); pretty much feel a big disconnect with the Leafs, will probably spend their moolah somewhere else. Perhaps this is a ploy to say:

"hey, we know you want results, we want it too" and boom there is the story.

I for one am 100% sure that if dubas was extended my interest in Leafs would plummet even more than it already has after last season's presser

 

[Leaf Fans]

Not sure how true this is but from business pov with prices increasing like crazy and cost of living going up; I suspect MLSE has already factored this into their revenue stream this season. With a lot of folks (I am almost there); pretty much feel a big disconnect with the Leafs, will probably spend their moolah somewhere else. Perhaps this is a ploy to say:

"hey, we know you want results, we want it too" and boom there is the story.

I for one am 100% sure that if dubas was extended my interest in Leafs would plummet even more than it already has after last season's presser

I will still be interested regardless of the management. I don't give a crap who the GM is. I will still cheering for a Cup!