Athletic: Dubas Job on the Line this Season (contract expiring after this season)

[ToneDog]

When the Leafs fail again, either in the regular season or playoffs, he will not lose his job. The one thing I learned is that old, out of touch, senile men in charge refuse to admit they made a mistake. Dubas will be there as long as Shanahan is there. The only way we get to say good-bye to Dubas is if the MLSE Board becomes enamored with another boy genius as replaces Shanahan with him.

We are in for another great and exciting season but, unfortunately, second season failure. That is the team that has been built.

if they lose in round #1 again, unless you allow Dubas to run it back, how do you allow the guy who bet everything on this core dismantle it?? It is curtains for the boy wonder if they lose in round #1. He has one life left.

 

[killer1980]

Apparently people are boys at 36, and out of touch senile old men at 53.

My mother died of Alzheimer’s at 51.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I can’t speak for anyone else but myself. I don’t hate Dubas. He’s very likeable, but the fact of the matter is he has not gotten the job done. He’s built a great team that hasn’t had success. 0/5 for advancing past the first round under Dubas. That warrants some criticism. Do some people take it overboard yes, but we want results.

He's had a ton of regular season success. Not nearly as important as playoff success to be sure, but it's not nothing either.

Criticism is warranted for sure, the two posters here who think he's above criticism are nutso. I'm at a loss to say how much criticism is warranted - a goal against MTL in OT and that's one win in the books, several other series could have went the other was just as easily so the yahoos who keep bleating "6 consecutive first round losses" as if that was the only thing worth looking at are just as nutso.

We want results, damn straight. Hopefully this is the year it finally happens!

Your second point?! If you’re not even winning series’ you’re not even in the conversation as a cup contender. I’m sorry. If you believe anything else that is just delusion. If advancing deep into the playoffs on a consistent basis isn’t the best and most key indicator, what is?

Contender is a subjective term so to each his own. I get what you're saying but at the same time, COL is the only team in the league who's chances at winning the cup are clearly better than ours as of today (at least that's what the bookies say and I agree with them) so ... to me, that's a contender. But like I said, it's a subjective term so not looking to start a fight here, just wanted to put in my 2c.

Anyway we could trade for Chycrun? I know we have no money but defense is so important when winning it all. We already have two injuries on D. Muzzin is used and broken etc. He would be a great catch.

Not sure what the chances are of that happening but I would love it!

This thread is on its way to the passes the test one

But honest question - who has watched the dubas 30 minute presser from yesterday

For anyone that did i dont see how anyone could come away not seeing a gm that is on edge, focused and serious. Probably the most stern i have seen him.. and if that can filter down through the building into every facet he touches the intensity organically rises.. everyone becomes just a little bit more on edge, a little bit sharper a little bit more precise .. could be a very good thing

Our boy is growing up

I didn't see the presser but that's good to hear. A less smug and self-satisfied version of Dubas would be a definite improvement IMO.

 

[ACC1224]

Did Burkie hire shills to defend him in social media and did the same shills rip the previous GM to defend him ?? I could be wrong but IMO nobody "defends" a player, coach, or GM to the death the way some do on this board unless they have an agenda. I mean, we saw two videos posted clearly showing the Holl pick and Willie pulling up, yet one poster responded to the posts that it was not a pick and Willie did not pull up.

I loved Burke, he cracked me up.

 

[andora]

My mother died of Alzheimer’s at 51.

i lost my grandmother in her 80s to that - to read that is terrible, so unfairly done sometimes. thoughts for you

 

[Gary Nylund]

My mother died of Alzheimer’s at 51.

i lost my grandmother in her 80s to that - to read that is terrible, so unfairly done sometimes. thoughts for you

Life's unfair in so many ways. Sorry for your losses.

 

[killer1980]

But honest question - who has watched the dubas 30 minute presser from yesterday

For anyone that did i dont see how anyone could come away not seeing a gm that is on edge, focused and serious. Probably the most stern i have seen him.. and if that can filter down through the building into every facet he touches the intensity organically rises.. everyone becomes just a little bit more on edge, a little bit sharper a little bit more precise .. could be a very good thing

Our boy is growing up

Except the players he put his faith in don’t care. That is evidenced from the smile on their faces every time they do something stupid. They are much more concerned about looking good for the Betting and Timmy commercials. They are a perfect reflection of this generation, ”it’s all about me and I don’t care about anybody or anything else.“

As a side note, Matthews will pretty soon start really padding his stats so he can get a really good contract away from this god forsaken town.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Except the players he put his faith in don’t care. That is evidenced from the smile on their faces every time they do something stupid. They are much more concerned about looking good for the Betting and Timmy commercials. They are a perfect reflection of this generation, ”it’s all about me and I don’t care about anybody or anything else.“

As a side note, Matthews will pretty soon start really padding his stats so he can get a really good contract away from this god forsaken town.

Which players don't care? All of them?

 

[andora]

Except the players he put his faith in don’t care. That is evidenced from the smile on their faces every time they do something stupid. They are much more concerned about looking good for the Betting and Timmy commercials. They are a perfect reflection of this generation, ”it’s all about me and I don’t care about anybody or anything else.“

As a side note, Matthews will pretty soon start really padding his stats so he can get a really good contract away from this god forsaken town.

now watch dubas make some amazing mid season blockbuster that rattles the country club to its core - see f***ers, i'm not f***ing around

 

[paulhiggins]

Two wrongs do not make a right. If Dubas had to trade him, he simply blew it. Same thing with the Kadri trade but let's blame Kadri for that and not Dubas. Afterall it was Kadri who got suspended twice.

Still peanuts compared to the number of suspensions Brad Marchand, Chris Pronger, etc. had. Scott Stevens would have had dozens in today's era. Hundreds of NHL players were dirtier. Not a reason to trade a good player unless GM trying to build "Team Wimpy".

 

[killer1980]

Which players don't care? All of them?

The big 3.

 

[Gary Nylund]

The big 3.

So you're blaming Dubas for not recognizing that those guys are losers, and therefore he should have shipped them out years ago? Well, that's a new one at least.

 

[hotpaws]

It was never this bad. The blind obsession began in earnest circa 2018.

Burke's crew was larger and much more entertaining but Burke did give his supporters more material to work with .

my favorite was when he blamed one of our season ending cliff dives on the pressure this market creates at the t/d and how he was considering making a separate date for the Leafs , it was pure entertainment watching his minions pick that up and run with it

 

[andora]

So you're blaming Dubas for not recognizing that those guys are losers, and therefore he should have shipped them out years ago? Well, that's a new one at least.

nah.. i think i read that in late july

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

All under Dubas' tutelage

• Losing to a zamboni driver
• Montreal colours on CN Tower
• Pretty empty cupboard (thrown away assets/picks)
• Not enough cap left for quality depth
• Respect in the handshake more important
• The season ending presser last season
• Trading Marleau with a 1st and then not even making playoffs losing to CBJ in the play-ins
  • blaming goalie (Andersen) when he had if am not mistaken about .94 or something save percentage
  • no cap for quality depth, no secondary scoring with all the high AAV guys stopped by tight checking
• Contracts and duration for Matthews, Marner
• No 1 goalie?
• More importantly!!!! No playoff results to show for
• Protecting freakin' Holl during expansion LOL
• not being able to go on to 2nd round
• etc....

I could go on and on about the things that he has done to the team.

I've seen arguments that say well it took washington and Ovi forever to win the cup; well if that is the case then what does Dubas has to do with it? It could be a new GM with a new vision for the team and how this team plays and then let the chips fall where they may. Why does it have to be with Dubas? It seems there more Dubas love here than Leafs Love for some posters and that just doesn't sit well with me

Come on man. Some of these takes are ridiculous.

CN tower, really? The GM of a hockey team has zero control over a national monument that is owned by the CANADIAN GOVERNMENT. Unless it has come out that Dubas asked the ones responsible for the Habs colors to be shown on the tower for support, why is this listed here?

We lost to a Zamboni driver because one of the best defensive teams in the NHL choked us out and played the trap for the last half of the game and limited us to 10 shots. Ayres allowed 2 goals on 10 shots. It's not like he was a brick wall and stopped 30 shots. If Lou, Burke or any other GM is sitting on his ass in the press box, do they all of a sudden figure out a way to beat the trap and muster up more than 10 shots? There is a reason why the 90s and early 2000s devils were so successful. They rarely gave up more than 20+ shots a game.

Dubas has traded a lot of picks but our cupboard is not bare. We have a fairly deep pool despite not having having many 1st round picks. If you followed the prospects threads you would know this. All of :

Amirov (health)
Robertson
Knies
Niemela
Hirvonen
Abruzzese
Holmberg
Kral
Villeneuve
Steeves
Douglas
Kokkonen

are on the cusp of playing in the NHL and there are a bunch of guys that still have good NHL potential or are younger and a few years away like:

Abramov
Tverberg
Miettinen
Minten
Koster
Voit

There a bunch of things Dubas has done that warrant criticism but things like the CN Tower aren't realistic.

 

[killer1980]

So you're blaming Dubas for not recognizing that those guys are losers, and therefore he should have shipped them out years ago? Well, that's a new one at least.

Nylander I never would have signed and I would have traded Marner for a tougher player. Matthews you had to keep but recognize he had a shelf life if you couldn’t convince him you were a winner. He’s no leader.

 

[hamzarocks]

Probably the best chance to win a series in dubas tenure as a GM this year (maybe the Habs one but this is close)

All our Atlantic rivals are weakened, older/elderly, and cap strapped

Leafs have some nice young players/prospects that need to either step up and be the X-factor (Sandin, Robertson, Knies if he makes it late in the year) or can be dealt for a win now piece

Leafs 2 best players are probably at their peaks this and next year. Ones a top 3 to 5 player and the other top 10 to 15. Superstars both of them and coming off a strong playoff showing

Goaltending is weak but we do have a goalie for once with some playoff history and success.

If we went to 7 with 2022 Tampa we can surely beat 2023 tampa/boston/Panthers who none of the three are as good as 2022 Tampa

If 2023 Toronto can play like 2022 Toronto we can make a deep run. If we can get added performance from guys who have the abilities we can win a cup.

Dubas has a good team. We just need results this year. If we can get a deep run confidence will be high on him/core.

Just need Murray/Samsonov to be able to outplay the opposition goalie in game 7 and our offense to break through.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

Anyway we could trade for Chycrun? I know we have no money but defense is so important when winning it all. We already have two injuries on D. Muzzin is used and broken etc. He would be a great catch.

Would be great add but the Yotes asking price is ridiculous

 

[DraftSchmaft]

A less smug and self-satisfied version of Dubas would be a definite improvement IMO.

How many people do you have on ignore that this statement didn't cause a war.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Nylander I never would have signed and I would have traded Marner for a tougher player. Matthews you had to keep but recognize he had a shelf life if you couldn’t convince him you were a winner. He’s no leader.

 

[Jmo89]

That's as about an unhinged post as I've ever seen.

How long have you been a Leaf fan or watching NHL hockey? Because from that post it seems you started Leaf watching in 2017. Well go back a bit further and check out these Leaf GM's...

- Dave Nonis
- Brian Burke
- John Ferguson Jr
- Floyd Smith
- Gord Stellick
- Gerry McNamara
- Punch Imlach

put in context, and based on results (since you are sooo results oriented, Mr. Intelligent Hockey Fan) Kyle Dubas comes out looking not too bad. Or remain ignorant and continue sounding like a madman - your choice

Why measure Dubas in comparison to other horrible GMs though? Why not raise the bar?

And for as bad as many of those guys were Dubas has succeeded as much or less than them in the playoffs.

 

[killer1980]

Probably the best chance to win a series in dubas tenure as a GM this year (maybe the Habs one but this is close)

All our Atlantic rivals are weakened, older/elderly, and cap strapped

Leafs have some nice young players/prospects that need to either step up and be the X-factor (Sandin, Robertson, Knies if he makes it late in the year) or can be dealt for a win now piece

Leafs 2 best players are probably at their peaks this and next year. Ones a top 3 to 5 player and the other top 10 to 15. Superstars both of them and coming off a strong playoff showing

Goaltending is weak but we do have a goalie for once with some playoff history and success.

If we went to 7 with 2022 Tampa we can surely beat 2023 tampa/boston/Panthers who none of the three are as good as 2022 Tampa

If 2023 Toronto can play like 2022 Toronto we can make a deep run. If we can get added performance from guys who have the abilities we can win a cup.

Dubas has a good team. We just need results this year. If we can get a deep run confidence will be high on him/core.

Just need Murray/Samsonov to be able to outplay the opposition goalie in game 7 and our offense to break through.

It seems like every year people believe that “this” year is their best chance. This year is no different than any other. Leafs lose in the first round IF they even make it that far.

 

[Enga Olly]

Why measure Dubas in comparison to other horrible GMs though? Why not raise the bar?

And for as bad as many of those guys were Dubas has succeeded as much or less than them in the playoffs.

Dubas has raised the bar. Would be interesting to see which of those bad GM's you would consider more successful. I want the Leafs to win in the PO as much as anyone but winning a PO series one year only to have the team be horrible the next has been much of the Leafs history. Shanahan has built this organization to be competitive year in year out. Sure these 1st round losses are bitterly disappointing but they've built a very good team and at some point it should fall into place. the late seventies, the eighties and the aughts were pathetic times for our club - and the constant during those times? The organization responding to the terrible media and those impatient fans that demanded change immediately. Sure if something clearly isn't working - change it. But a bad goal here, a stupid giveaway there does not warrant a tear down.

Look at the last 5 seasons and compare them in their totality to anything post lock-out with those 3 bums JFJ/Burke/Nonis

In my life time of watching the Leafs only Fletcher/Quinn and Jim Gregory were better than Dubas. If our goaltending shits the bed this year, then a strong case can be made to can Dugas, he's left us vulnerable in that position but for him to be holding the bag for a Galchenyuk brain cramp, a Sandin oopsie or Freddie being a sieve at the wort moments, is traditional old Toronto Media/fan mentality. Hopefully that doesn't carry the day this time.

 

[DraftSchmaft]

Dubas has raised the bar. Would be interesting to see which of those bad GM's you would consider more successful. I want the Leafs to win in the PO as much as anyone but winning a PO series one year only to have the team be horrible the next has been much of the Leafs history. Shanahan has built this organization to be competitive year in year out. Sure these 1st round losses are bitterly disappointing but they've built a very good team and at some point it should fall into place. the late seventies, the eighties and the aughts were pathetic times for our club - and the constant during those times? The organization responding to the terrible media and those impatient fans that demanded change immediately. Sure if something clearly isn't working - change it. But a bad goal here, a stupid giveaway there does not warrant a tear down.

Look at the last 5 seasons and compare them in their totality to anything post lock-out with those 3 bums JFJ/Burke/Nonis

In my life time of watching the Leafs only Fletcher/Quinn and Jim Gregory were better than Dubas. If our goaltending shits the bed this year, then a strong case can be made to can Dugas, he's left us vulnerable in that position but for him to be holding the bag for a Galchenyuk brain cramp, a Sandin oopsie or Freddie being a sieve at the wort moments, is traditional old Toronto Media/fan mentality. Hopefully that doesn't carry the day this time.

I'd hardly call someone who can't figure out how to get out of the 1st round with a team that has a core like ours one of our best gms. Best GM can't even get an extension right now and is on an assessment year instead.

If all you have to do is identify who our best players are and then throw money at them to become one of the best gms, that's definitely a low bar. Matthew's and marner draft picks make up more than half the reason JT came here too.

I don't get why people think we wouldn't improve the D without Dubas either. We have no idea what the opportunity cost was to keep Dubas as GM, all we know is we have zero playoff success under Dubas so can't rule out that the opportunity cost was huge. It's fully possible Dubas is not actually great, just fell into favorable conditions with a core whose floor is massively high.

 

[Shooter2x]

I'd hardly call someone who can't figure out how to get out of the 1st round with a team that has a core like ours one of our best gms. Best GM can't even get an extension right now and is on an assessment year instead.

If all you have to do is identify who our best players are and then throw money at them to become one of the best gms, that's definitely a low bar. Matthew's and marner draft picks make up more than half the reason JT came here too.

I don't get why people think we wouldn't improve the D without Dubas either. We have no idea what the opportunity cost was to keep Dubas as GM, all we know is we have zero playoff success under Dubas so can't rule out that the opportunity cost was huge. It's fully possible Dubas is not actually great, just fell into favorable conditions with a core whose floor is massively high.

I imagine this has become the voice inside Shanahan's head.