Athletic: Dubas Job on the Line this Season (contract expiring after this season)

[Dekes For Days]

What are these quotation marks around series wins?

Because "series wins" is all that is said around here.

Are series wins not a valid indicator of the teams progress towards winning the cup?

Somewhat, but far from the only or even best indicator of future cup potential.

Amazing how these folks try and gaslight people into believing playoff success is not important when judging a team's success.

Nobody has said that playoff success isn't important when judging a team's success. There is just more than a team's contextless playoff series outcomes that matter when judging a GM's performance.

 

[francis246]

That's as about an unhinged post as I've ever seen.

How long have you been a Leaf fan or watching NHL hockey? Because from that post it seems you started Leaf watching in 2017. Well go back a bit further and check out these Leaf GM's...

- Dave Nonis
- Brian Burke
- John Ferguson Jr
- Floyd Smith
- Gord Stellick
- Gerry McNamara
- Punch Imlach

put in context, and based on results (since you are sooo results oriented, Mr. Intelligent Hockey Fan) Kyle Dubas comes out looking not too bad. Or remain ignorant and continue sounding like a madman - your choice

In fairness I kind of would have liked to see Burke get 1 more year. The team was starting to get a bit better then Nonis brought it to shit again. I just know we wouldn’t have taken Gauthier in 2013 under Burke LOL

 

[ACC1224]

But the trade doesn't happen without Lou signing that contract.

Lou put Kyle in that situation it's the same reason I don't blame Dubas for the Zaitsev trade because he didn't give Zaitsev 7 years Lou did.

He didn't have to trade him, he chose to.

 

[Leafs87]

Recent history hasn’t been kind to the Leafs for management. He has produced the best team we’ve had in over 40 years, but he has also been given the best situation, while making some glaring mistakes.

I don’t even know what to say. The grass isn’t always greener, and if Dubas could somehow learn he needs grit, learn how to negotiate star deals and not money ball the goaltending position he could actually be our best bet for the future.

The issues for this franchise seem to run much deeper than the GM position. The winning culture just isn’t there and we’ve seen quite a few players of our past core go on to play vital roles on winning teams

 

[IPS]

Remember folks, playoff success is not about who you beat - it's about who you lose to in 7 games.

 

[Dekes For Days]

He didn't have to trade him, he chose to.

The trade was necessary, and the Marleau contract and the consequences of it are on Lou, the person who signed it despite knowing that it was bad and would have to end in the exact way it did. This has already been established and discussed extensively.

 

[andora]

But the trade doesn't happen without Lou signing that contract.

Lou put Kyle in that situation it's the same reason I don't blame Dubas for the Zaitsev trade because he didn't give Zaitsev 7 years Lou did.

To be FAIR in my opinion the tavares contract is sandwiched in there and muddies it abit.. for it or against it there are some things in between that matter about the position he was in

 

[francis246]

Because "series wins" is all that is said around here.

Somewhat, but far from the only or even best indicator of future cup potential.

Nobody has said that playoff success isn't important when judging a team's success. There is just more than a team's contextless playoff series outcomes that matter when judging a GM's performance.

Your second point?! If you’re not even winning series’ you’re not even in the conversation as a cup contender. I’m sorry. If you believe anything else that is just delusion. If advancing deep into the playoffs on a consistent basis isn’t the best and most key indicator, what is?

 

[zeke]

And as long as he's GM it will continue until he wins a playoff series,

I'm happy that you guys are finally admitting that the "Dubas Obssession" on these boards is all about the people who can't stop bashing him on every page of every thread.

The fact you see it as hate shows me you're emotionally invested in Kyle Dubas, and probably aren't capable of seeing things rationally.

every page of every thread.

totally rational.

 

[DarkKnight]

What are these quotation marks around series wins? Do you not have to win series to win the cup? Are series wins not a valid indicator of the teams progress towards winning the cup?

Amazing how these folks try and gaslight people into believing playoff success is not important when judging a team's success.

it’s actually incredible one has to have a back and forth about playoff success, like it’s just one indicator when judging success. Some have lost the sport plot here.

 

[Bomber0104]

"Contextless playoff series outcomes"



That statement is seriously lacking context. Let's fix it up.

"Outcome" lacks context and should be changed to "losses" signifying what the outcome actually was: a loss

"Playoff series" also lacks context and should be changed to "first round series" which denotes which specific round the losses happened in, knowing that a first round isn't nearly as significant as a Cup Final.

Voila, we've now added context and the phrase "contextless playoff series outcomes" can now properly be read as "first round series losses"

 

[DarkKnight]

"Contextless playoff series outcomes"

Come for the hockey, stay for the laughs.

 

[trellaine201]

Anyway we could trade for Chycrun? I know we have no money but defense is so important when winning it all. We already have two injuries on D. Muzzin is used and broken etc. He would be a great catch.

 

[Bomber0104]

Come for the hockey, stay for the laughs.

Laughs for days.

 

[Osmows OReilly]

I have a question for veteran members of this forum: was this obsessive defence of Dubas common amongst other bad Leafs GMs? Just curious.

 

[Bomber0104]

Remember folks, playoff success is not about who you beat - it's about who you lose to in 7 games.

We have some real connoisseurs of first round losses around here.

There's so many to choose from, I guess people now have their favorites?

I have a question for veteran members of this forum: was this obsessive defence of Dubas common amongst other bad Leafs GMs? Just curious.

Burke had an even bigger fanbase here, and this despite never even making the playoffs.

Those usernames are mostly all gone for obvious reasons.

 

[andora]

This thread is on its way to the passes the test one

But honest question - who has watched the dubas 30 minute presser from yesterday

For anyone that did i dont see how anyone could come away not seeing a gm that is on edge, focused and serious. Probably the most stern i have seen him.. and if that can filter down through the building into every facet he touches the intensity organically rises.. everyone becomes just a little bit more on edge, a little bit sharper a little bit more precise .. could be a very good thing

Our boy is growing up

 

[ToneDog]

He didn't have to trade him, he chose to.

Two wrongs do not make a right. If Dubas had to trade him, he simply blew it. Same thing with the Kadri trade but let's blame Kadri for that and not Dubas. Afterall it was Kadri who got suspended twice.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Your second point?! If you’re not even winning series’ you’re not even in the conversation as a cup contender. I’m sorry. If you believe anything else that is just delusion. If advancing deep into the playoffs on a consistent basis isn’t the best and most key indicator, what is?

Past series wins don't give you bonus points in future playoffs. It can be an indication of a team's quality, but there are significant limitations to what information a simple "did you win your series or no" answer can provide, as there are so many external impacting factors, and teams change so much from year to year anyway. Better measures of team quality or even why and how you won (or lost) and the context behind the playoff series and how the team performed would provide more information towards future cup potential than just the basic yes or no of did you end up winning that series in the past. You'd be surprised how many cup winning seasons are surrounded by disappointing playoff outcomes.

 

[ACC1224]

I have a question for veteran members of this forum: was this obsessive defence of Dubas common amongst other bad Leafs GMs? Just curious.

It was never this bad. The blind obsession began in earnest circa 2018.

 

[andora]

Past series wins don't give you bonus points in future playoffs. It can be an indication of a team's quality, but there are significant limitations to what information a simple "did you win your series or no" answer can provide, as there are so many external impacting factors, and teams change so much from year to year anyway. Better measures of team quality or even why and how you won (or lost) and the context behind the playoff series and how the team performed would provide more information towards future cup potential than just the basic yes or no of did you end up winning that series in the past. You'd be surprised how many cup winning seasons are surrounded by disappointing playoff outcomes.

Is this from the beancounters around the table or players on the ice point of view

 

[Dekes For Days]

Is this from the beancounters around the table or players on the ice point of view

...what?

 

[killer1980]

When the Leafs fail again, either in the regular season or playoffs, he will not lose his job. The one thing I learned is that old, out of touch, senile men in charge, refuse to admit they made a mistake. Dubas will be there as long as Shanahan is there. The only way we get to say good-bye to Dubas is if the MLSE Board becomes enamored with another boy genius and replaces Shanahan with him.

We are in for another great and exciting season but, unfortunately, second season failure. That is the team that has been built.

 

[ToneDog]

It was never this bad. The blind obsession began in earnest circa 2018.

Did Burkie hire shills to defend him in social media and did the same shills rip the previous GM to defend him ?? I could be wrong but IMO nobody "defends" a player, coach, or GM to the death the way some do on this board unless they have an agenda. I mean, we saw two videos posted clearly showing the Holl pick and Willie pulling up, yet one poster responded to the posts that it was not a pick and Willie did not pull up.

 

[Dekes For Days]

The one thing I learned is that old, out of touch, senile men in charge refuse to admit they made a mistake. Dubas will be there as long as Shanahan is there. The only way we get to say good-bye to Dubas is if the MLSE Board becomes enamored with another boy genius as replaces Shanahan with him.

Apparently people are boys at 36, and out of touch senile old men at 53.