As a fan what is your "Realistic" expectation for next season? What you want?

[makbeer]

I voted for cup run.

After the offseason so far I change my realistic expectations to fighting for a playoff spot and being bounced in the first round.

 

[2 Slick]

I voted for new management group. Dubas has made a few decent moves here and there, but he is horrific at cap management and draft assets. Tavares should never have received the amount of money and term that he did, it's knee-capping them from making any substantial changes to get them out of the first round funk that they're in.

I'm not a fan of Murray or Samsonov, so you won't be able to write me a fairy tale about how they will both magically have fantastic seasons and every thing will be okay, that's a bunch of horseshit.

Matthews, Marner and Nylander will have decent offensive seasons, there's no denying that. They are basically in their peak prime of their careers, so I have no issues with their ability to perform.

I have issues with the botttom six not being good enough. I have issues with goaltending not being good enough. I have issues with a so-so defensive group.

Even if Dubas makes trades and more acquisitions between now and opening night, it still won't change the fact that Murray and Samsonov are our starting and back-up goaltenders. That's the reality that the Leafs live in.

I'll still watch most, if not all of the games because I love my team regardless of the fact that I am complaining about this and that. Complaining doesn't mean I hate the Leafs or am wanting to jump ship. I've been watching for decades faithfully, I'm not going anywhere. However, I'm not going to give them the benefit of the doubt and sugarcoat shit when they've had the same damn results for half a decade now. It's NOT working.

So, I'll watch this season unfold, but don't expect there to be some fancy Stanley Cup run, not with this goaltending duo, it's NOT happening. Period.

I'll wait for the dust to settle and management/coaches to be fired. Then I'll be happier.

 

[Racer88]

They get paid the same with or without playoff success.

Therein lies the problem

 

[Nineteen67]

View attachment 569049

*i have found no reports he's actually injured, but my god would it be hilarious if a day after joining the dude stepped on a twinkie and broke his foot*

I‘m not sure who said it, but they said if the season started now he wouldn't be available.

 

[Nineteen67]

It’s July, unless he’s planning a surgery will it even be an issue in September?

I’d be concerned about training.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

I’d be concerned about training.

Yeah, if it gets closer to camp and he's injured I'd be worried as well. Before the trade though Leafs medical checked him out and since they don't have a salary cap they are some of the best in the league.

 

[Nineteen67]

Yeah, if it gets closer to camp and he's injured I'd be worried as well. Before the trade though Leafs medical checked him out and since they don't have a salary cap they are some of the best in the league.

He needs be in an off-season training program today. I’ll need to listen to it again but I think they said he was still in rehab

 

[keonsbitterness]

Therein lies the problem

Thing is that applies to every team. Players salaries are fully paid before the playoffs start. There are playoff bonuses but those are paid by the league, not the teams. Most pro leagues are set up that way.

 

[Nineteen67]

Yeah, if it gets closer to camp and he's injured I'd be worried as well. Before the trade though Leafs medical checked him out and since they don't have a salary cap they are some of the best in the league.

I re-listened to the episode and it was Frank Corrado who mentioned that Mark Methot said on First Up that Murray is not healthy and still rehabbing.

I’ll assume the Leafs medical team is comfortably he’ll be OK and able to start the season, but its not good if what Corrado says is true.

 

[justashadowof]

Are we going on a Cup run with our scrap-heap goaltending and ever-weakening forward depth?

When I look back at the forward depth of recent winners like Colorado, Tampa Bay, St. Louis, Washington, Pittsburgh, we just don't have it. Not even close. We had it 3-4 years ago but we couldn't afford to pay for it.

Maybe the goaltending is less important. A temporary stud goalie may be all it takes and I can't discount entirely that couldn't happen with one of the several options we're carrying into the 2022-23 season.

 

[Tak7]

I dont really get offended so thats fine lol, I just have a feeling Murray has a passion to win here, I mean he was really close to his dad, grew up watching leafs hockey with him, he said putting on that jersey for the first time will be special, he has a winning pedigree, 2 times sc champion, think him working with Sanford will be beneficial, plus the leafs have a very good team of mental health, and doctors, Samsonov I think will be a good goalie, just something about a big goalie if he finds his groove he will be fine, I mean this is just my opionion, could be right or wrong, its just what im feeling!

Thanks for that. The reason I ask, is because I personally am struggling to find any reason to think he's going to turn it around, beyond hope. For example, in response to your post (and please don't think I'm singling you out or criticizing your opinion):

*Passion to win here - no one knows that. When I watched his first press conference, he looked squirmish.​

*Father was a Leafs fan - it's a nice touch, but that can just as easily be a massive burden as it can be a motivator.​

*Winning Pedigree / The cups - was half a decade ago.​

*Working with Sanford - none of us know a thing about Curtis Sanford as a goalie coach, or his methods, to know whether this will help turn things around or not.​

*Mental Health / Better Team Defense - this one I agree with.​

​

Again, not meaning to pick on your opinion, just trying to rally around a move that I don't think will work.​

 

[Cleetus]

Thanks for that. The reason I ask, is because I personally am struggling to find any reason to think he's going to turn it around, beyond hope. For example, in response to your post (and please don't think I'm singling you out or criticizing your opinion):

*Passion to win here - no one knows that. When I watched his first press conference, he looked squirmish.​

*Father was a Leafs fan - it's a nice touch, but that can just as easily be a massive burden as it can be a motivator.​

*Winning Pedigree / The cups - was half a decade ago.​

*Working with Sanford - none of us know a thing about Curtis Sanford as a goalie coach, or his methods, to know whether this will help turn things around or not.​

*Mental Health / Better Team Defense - this one I agree with.​

​

Again, not meaning to pick on your opinion, just trying to rally around a move that I don't think will work.​

I mean at the end of the day no one really knows, just my gut feeling of course, guess we shall see what happens in Oct.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

I re-listened to the episode and it was Frank Corrado who mentioned that Mark Methot said on First Up that Murray is not healthy and still rehabbing.

I’ll assume the Leafs medical team is comfortably he’ll be OK and able to start the season, but its not good if what Corrado says is true.

Hard to say, Leafs media loves making people upset/miserable.

 

[AllDay28]

Can someone bump the original TavAres signing thread? I’m so tired of all these GMs with their revisionist opinions on the deal where TavAres took the 3rd highest amount to sign here. It has to be littered with the same ppl complaining here, praising it.

(Dunno why the tavares is autod like it is but I’m not fixing it )

 

[Nineteen67]

Can someone bump the original TavAres signing thread? I’m so tired of all these GMs with their revisionist opinions on the deal where TavAres took the 3rd highest amount to sign here. It has to be littered with the same ppl complaining here, praising it.

(Dunno why the tavares is autod like it is but I’m not fixing it )

Fans were happy at the time, however he didn’t deliver any playoff success. Most of that has to do with fact the Leafs weren’t ready for him when they signed him , and that they doubled down and wounded themselves with the RFA signings

That’s when people switched their tune and most of the media and a lot of fans, predicted they‘d be in this position unless they reallocated some of the cap spending.

 

[Racer88]

Thing is that applies to every team. Players salaries are fully paid before the playoffs start. There are playoff bonuses but those are paid by the league, not the teams. Most pro leagues are set up that way.

Why I meant was they were awarded big contracts before they had any team success

 

[keonsbitterness]

Why I meant was they were awarded big contracts before they had any team success

Most teams re-sign their RFA stars to big contracts regardless of team performance. Are you saying we should have traded Matthews and Marner three years ago for picks & prospects?

 

[Racer88]

Most teams re-sign their RFA stars to big contracts regardless of team performance. Are you saying we should have traded Matthews and Marner three years ago for picks & prospects?

Nope but Dubas should have been a little tougher on the negotiations

 

[Gary Nylund]

Thanks for that. The reason I ask, is because I personally am struggling to find any reason to think he's going to turn it around, beyond hope. For example, in response to your post (and please don't think I'm singling you out or criticizing your opinion):

*Passion to win here - no one knows that. When I watched his first press conference, he looked squirmish.​

*Father was a Leafs fan - it's a nice touch, but that can just as easily be a massive burden as it can be a motivator.​

*Winning Pedigree / The cups - was half a decade ago.​

*Working with Sanford - none of us know a thing about Curtis Sanford as a goalie coach, or his methods, to know whether this will help turn things around or not.​

*Mental Health / Better Team Defense - this one I agree with.​

​

Again, not meaning to pick on your opinion, just trying to rally around a move that I don't think will work.​

I thought the story was that he did good work with Demko in Vancouver?

 

[keonsbitterness]

Nope but Dubas should have been a little tougher on the negotiations

He should have, but that's a separate issue.

 

[Tak7]

I thought the story was that he did good work with Demko in Vancouver?

Yes, though with Demko his development plan was already underway before Sanford got there. He did oversee much of Spencer Martin's development though, so there may be room for optimism there for sure.

It is worth noting that both of those goalies are younger and perhaps more malleable than Murray, which may suggest that Samsonov may be the better bet with Sanford. However, we just don't know what goes on behind the scenes with goalies and goalie coaches to really be able to say "Sanford being here is a huge plus for the Leafs".

 

[Racer88]

Fans were happy at the time, however he didn’t deliver any playoff success. Most of that has to do with fact the Leafs weren’t ready for him when they signed him , and that they doubled down and wounded themselves with the RFA signings

That’s when people switched their tune and most of the media and a lot of fans, predicted they‘d be in this position unless they reallocated some of the cap spending.

Most fans were happy because we did not realize we would end up with 3-11 million dollar players 4 forwards taking 50% of the cap.
I think most of us also thought Tavares could put this team over the top but that has not happened.

 

[PromisedLand]

Are we going on a Cup run with our scrap-heap goaltending and ever-weakening forward depth?

When I look back at the forward depth of recent winners like Colorado, Tampa Bay, St. Louis, Washington, Pittsburgh, we just don't have it. Not even close. We had it 3-4 years ago but we couldn't afford to pay for it.

Maybe the goaltending is less important. A temporary stud goalie may be all it takes and I can't discount entirely that couldn't happen with one of the several options we're carrying into the 2022-23 season.

I think it depends on the options.

You either have elite goal tending and then have some elite forwards/Top d pair and depth may not be as important as your goalie will win you games

OR

You have average to below average goaltending (ex: Avs recently) but then have elite forwards, elite D group (at least top 4 -> Makar, Toews, Girard/Byram) and solid depth (some of their late goals came from Helm, Compher, etc...)

The way Leafs are built, they don't resemble either of these two situations IMO

 

[PromisedLand]

My worry is we actually somehow make it past the first round of the playoffs, then lose in the second round and Dubas keeps his job because it's seen as progress that we finally got past the first round.

This team is going nowhere why we have 4 players taking up so much of the cap and Dubas flat out refuses to trade any of them.

dubas' fans are already defending his moves. what do you expect if leafs somehow win a round? (very unlikely IMO). It is quite disgusting IMO.

I've never seen a fanbase so dilligently defend the GM for his bad moves and lack of success as much as Dubas. It is almost like they only care about the GM; as long as he is the GM all is great in the world, team results/success be damned.

It is quite pathetic!

 

[Crosscrease14]

Win a round or clean house.