Around the NHL: Part XXXIII

[bl02]

His first game back? 20 mins. Called investing in your future franchise players

I missed the game but he got 20 min?
Holy. On a team fighting for its playoff lives. Good for Chicago and it’s future.

 

[Kovalev27]

I missed the game but he got 20 min?
Holy. On a team fighting for its playoff lives. Good for Chicago and it’s future.

his second game back he got 21 mins

take lafreniere a week to get that total

 

[Leetch3]

hawks seem to have alot of guys out too...strome didn't play. wallmark was on the top line. hawks didn't exactly have many options.

 

[LokiDog]

Dach is also a -4 with no points in those 41 minutes so, huzzah.

 

[Kovalev27]

hawks seem to have alot of guys out too...strome didn't play. wallmark was on the top line. hawks didn't exactly have many options.

the most mins Laf has ever gotten was 18:49 happened twice

we’ve had MULTIPLE guys out at the same time even thru the year.

Did his pp time increase? No

come on man let’s stop defending this garbage. If we’re rebuilding then play your top prospects stop chasing a playoff spot that isn’t happening at their expense.

this kid line idea was always a sham. It was a way to keep them out of the top 6 so they could ride their top 6. At least kakko is getting some mins now. Not pp time of course but at least he’s getting some top 6 mins which I wouldn’t be surprised to see him out of for the next game

 

[Kovalev27]

Dach is also a -4 with no points in those 41 minutes so, huzzah.

And that proves the point even more. It shouldn’t matter. They don’t need protecting they need to play and Chicago seems to understand that even in a playoff race. We do not. Hence why they know how to actually develop young forwards and we don’t

 

[LokiDog]

And that proves the point even more. It shouldn’t matter. They don’t need protecting they need to play and Chicago seems to understand that even in a playoff race. We do not. Hence why they know how to actually develop young forwards and we don’t

I’m fine with this perspective, for sure. Chicago believes in their kids and despite being more in the race than us and thinking about getting Kane, Toews and Keith another kick at the can, they let their kids play regardless of the results. Quinn, as a rookie coach, has (at least) one serious flaw for a rebuild. Even if he was a good development coach, he also is trying to prove himself as an NHL coach and ensure he stays in the NHL. He has to win games.

 

[Kovalev27]

I’m fine with this perspective, for sure. Chicago believes in their kids and despite being more in the race than us and thinking about getting Kane, Toews and Keith another kick at the can, they let their kids play regardless of the results. Quinn, as a rookie coach, has (at least) one serious flaw for a rebuild. Even if he was a good development coach, he also is trying to prove himself as an NHL coach and ensure he stays in the NHL. He has to win games.

which he’s doing neither. He’ll miss the playoffs and come out with a first and second overall stalling in development.

I’m amazed he had the Gaul to say I just had a pep talk with Laf after the Philly game and then he proceeded in his first game back to play him 4 mins thru 2 periods in a game where we were generating NOTHING.

 

[Edge]

I see both sides of the Dach approach.

On the one hand, I think we're missing a little context. Dach is getting these minutes while Toews is out and Strome is hurt, I don't know if it's necessarily part of a broader strategy or philosophical change in Chicago. And in response, Dach has looked...pretty awful actually.

On the other hand, I don't feel we are maximizing the types of players our own young kids are at this point either. I strongly believe that each one of our top young forwards needs to be paired with at least one of our higher-end, veteran forwards.

So that means Kakko with Panarin and Strome, Lafreniere with Zibanejad and Buch, and possibly Chytil and Kravtsov with Kreider.

At this point, I'm not quite as interested in riding the vets into a Hail Mary play. It's time to start to having the younger talent apply what they've learned, or start figuring out how to learn what hasn't caught on yet.

 

[Kovalev27]

I see both sides of the Dach approach.

On the one hand, I think we're missing a little context. Dach is getting these minutes while Toews is out and Strome is hurt, I don't know if it's necessarily part of a broader strategy or philosophical change in Chicago. And in response, Dach has looked...pretty awful actually.

On the other hand, I don't feel we are maximizing the types of players our own young kids are at this point either. I strongly believe that each one of our top young forwards needs to be paired with at least one of our higher-end, veteran forwards.

So that means Kakko with Panarin and Strome, Lafreniere with Zibanejad and Buch, and possibly Chytil and Kravtsov with Kreider.

At this point, I'm not quite as interested in riding the vets into a Hail Mary play. It's time to start to having the younger talent apply what they've learned, or start figuring out how to learn what hasn't caught on yet.

But that’s ok with Dach. He hasn’t played in months but instead of burying him they’re letting him play a lot to get thru it. They’re not hiding him.

you know we made that kid line to bury them outside the top 6. I said it the day they did it. Quinn did it to set them aside. Not to develop them.

 

[Edge]

But that’s ok with Dach. He hasn’t played in months but instead of burying him they’re letting him play a lot to get thru it. They’re not hiding him.

you know we made that kid line to bury them outside the top 6. I said it the day they did it. Quinn did it to set them aside. Not to develop them.

But here's the question --- would they do it if they had Toews and Strome healthy right now? Or what if they had Zibanejad and either Strome?

I don't think it's a strategy, so much as them being forced into it.

The hard part for any coach, regardless of whether fans view them as a "developmental" coach or a "win-now" coach is that they are both coaching to win now and they're coaching to continue their careers at the NHL level.

In the Rangers case, most coaches, be it Quinn or someone else, is probably going to be very hard pressed to play Lafreniere ahead of both Panarin and Kreider. Likewise, he's going to be hard pressed to play Kakko in front of Buchnevich.

And as much as we may want to believe it's just Quinn, the reality is that it probably isn't --- just as we saw with Laf's icetime under Knoblauch.

In many ways, having some of the veteran talent is actually counter-productive to developing Lafreniere and Kakko at times. It keeps them off the powerplay, it keeps them out of certain situations, and it usually doesn't serve as a coach's go-to.

When we look at Miller, or Lindgren, or even Fox, who was gonna stop them? We didn't have a Panarin or Kreider equivalent. The Rangers almost had no other choice.

I tend to think that's what you're seeing with Dach right now. It's not transparent approach to player development, it's "there's no one else I can throw out there, so we're going this direction."

And based on what we've seen, it kind of highlights why coaches don't want to go that route.

But again, if that Hawks team has Toews or Zibanejad, and either Strome brother, is that the approach they take? Highly doubtful.

 

[Kovalev27]

That’s totally fair and I get that which is why you e probably seen my posts saying this is why it’s better for bad teams to get top prospects they don’t have vets to block them

but dachs ice time last year was in the 15 min plus range as a teenager he got pp time we complained about it last year too and the hawks had those guys in the lineup. Maybe not 21 mins but consistently 15 plus a night with pp time. The pp time for me is the biggest gripe and this kid line is bullshit especially with Chytil coming back from a broken hand AND covid. Who are they helping here exactly?

 

[Edge]

That’s totally fair and I get that which is why you e probably seen my posts saying this is why it’s better for bad teams to get top prospects they don’t have vets to block them

but dachs ice time last year was in the 15 min plus range as a teenager he got pp time we complained about it last year too and the hawks had those guys in the lineup. Maybe not 21 mins but consistently 15 plus a night with pp time. The pp time for me is the biggest gripe and this kid line is bullshit especially with Chytil coming back from a broken hand AND covid. Who are they helping here exactly?

And in that sense, I completely agree.

I hate the kid line because I think it plays to our younger players' weaknesses more than their strengths.

I want kids with the higher end veterans, and I want them getting ice time. I don't want Lafreniere getting 13 minutes. I'd rather take 2 mins from Panarin and Kreider respectively and get him closer to 17 or 18 minutes.

Likewise, I don't need to see both Strome and Zibanejad on the powerplay. Keep the latter, switch out the former. At this point, I want the kids to start getting some of that juicy playing time.

And I include Knob in that statement as well. With two blowout leads against the Flyers, there was the time to roll the kids out there.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Dach is also a -4 with no points in those 41 minutes so, huzzah.

also had the bad turnover that lead to Preds winner in the 3rd.

Also, didn't see Zegras play last night. Scratched? Injured?


Maybe it was just a shit draft. Quinn off the hook.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

I’m fine with this perspective, for sure. Chicago believes in their kids and despite being more in the race than us and thinking about getting Kane, Toews and Keith another kick at the can, they let their kids play regardless of the results. Quinn, as a rookie coach, has (at least) one serious flaw for a rebuild. Even if he was a good development coach, he also is trying to prove himself as an NHL coach and ensure he stays in the NHL. He has to win games.

We also have a top 6 (5) of established veterans are performing well. I get not wanting to cut into their ice time to get the kids some better looks, but, pretty soon we're going to be out of the playoff picture. That would be a great time to try and tinker and get these kids some steady minutes, some PP time, some confidence. Not going to hold my breath though.

 

[Edge]

also had the bad turnover that lead to Preds winner in the 3rd.

Maybe it was just a shit draft. Quinn off the hook.

Time will tell on this one, but I really do suspect that we're seeing a shift in recent years that makes those 50-60 point seasons from rookies, even top picks, a bit more rare.

I feel like it's been trending that way for about three years now, with some players at the beginning of the shift really start to feel it more in the second or even third season (as the trend grew).

Right now, I also feel the difference between having numbers that people don't fret over, and the numbers they expect is going to owe a lot to powerplay usage.

And again, I could be way off base here. But I also know that in the past, when the league goes through these kinds of shifts, there's always a period of time where the broader view hasn't quite caught up with the initial pivot.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

also had the bad turnover that lead to Preds winner in the 3rd.

Also, didn't see Zegras play last night. Scratched? Injured?


Maybe it was just a shit draft. Quinn off the hook.

Zegras got taxi squaded.

 

[SA16]

his second game back he got 21 mins

take lafreniere a week to get that total

He plays on a team whose centers are Pius Suter, David Kampf, and Carl Soderberg. Not a surprise that he gets minutes.

 

[bl02]

We also have a top 6 (5) of established veterans are performing well. I get not wanting to cut into their ice time to get the kids some better looks, but, pretty soon we're going to be out of the playoff picture. That would be a great time to try and tinker and get these kids some steady minutes, some PP time, some confidence. Not going to hold my breath though.

Definitely don’t hold your breath. More of a chance Blackwell climbs back to kakko’s spot than Kakko or Laf ever getting relevant pp time

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

I didn't realize that Nashville's hot streak is coinciding with Duchene being out of the lineup lol.

 

[Kovalev27]

And in that sense, I completely agree.

I hate the kid line because I think it plays to our younger players' weaknesses more than their strengths.

I want kids with the higher end veterans, and I want them getting ice time. I don't want Lafreniere getting 13 minutes. I'd rather take 2 mins from Panarin and Kreider respectively and get him closer to 17 or 18 minutes.

Likewise, I don't need to see both Strome and Zibanejad on the powerplay. Keep the latter, switch out the former. At this point, I want the kids to start getting some of that juicy playing time.

And I include Knob in that statement as well. With two blowout leads against the Flyers, there was the time to roll the kids out there.

well said those 2 or 3 additional mins do make a difference and Knob is not immune to the criticism there either as you said. There are situations where you can play them more than others and we just don’t do it. Winning big losing big doesn’t change. All veterans on pp1 and they stay out for a minute 30? Minute 45? No way not acceptable. You can start PP2 at times as well. Doesn’t have to be pp1 every time. Not when you’re probably more like 8 pts out of a playoff spot with 20 games to go.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

AV scratched Hart for the next 2 games to get his shit together. What a disaster.

 

[ColonialsHockey10]

The latest NHL chirps video is so good.

Frederic to Subban: “post another workout video you f***ing loser”.

Had me dying

 

[rangers1314]

AV scratched Hart for the next 2 games to get his shit together. What a disaster.

I believe those games are against Buffalo as well.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

I believe those games are against Buffalo as well.

lol AV terrified of losing to Buffalo and getting fired. I see his line of thinking.