Around the NHL: Part XXXII

[kovazub94]

Portland? Lol I can only imagine those riots if they ever lost in the finals

GOLD!

 

[aufheben]

Man this Katie Strang article about the Coyotes...

Regulate that franchise right into the sun. Jesus.

came here to post this, an absolute nuke of an article.

I love how neither of you actually shared it.

 

[kovazub94]

At this point it feels like it’s a very personal and an issue of pride for the commissioner the way he’s been hell bent on keeping the team in Arizona. There’s not a single pro factor otherwise as the franchise has been an utter failure from ownership to management.

 

[Raspewtin]

I love how neither of you actually shared it.

paywall

 

[RangersFan1994]

any Green Day fans like myself. maybe they will surprise us with a performance of their new song

Green Day dropping new song 'Here Comes The Shock' during outdoor NHL game this weekend

I hope Green Day continues their partnership with the NHL.

 

[aufheben]

paywall

I have a subscription to The Athletic if that’s what you’re referring to.

 

[Irishguy42]

I love how neither of you actually shared it.

Fight me

(there is a paywall, folks)

 

[bobbop]

I’d go to Salt Lake City before Houston, you have a large economy and highly engaged tech culture there. They can absorb another sports team IMO. 2002 was a good showing.

Houston will flop. Devils within the details boys, population size doesn’t matter as much as product market fit. You have a bad real estate deal in Arizona, same with Miami, but that one has a very elegant solution.

Salt Lake and Indy both have the same problem, the arenas (rebuilt in Salt Lake and newer build in Indianapolis both have a basketball elevation and are unsuitable for hockey (think Barclay's) There's a smaller building in Salt Lake where the ECHL team plays but I don't think that building can be easily expanded.

Portland is a great hockey town and has a beautiful arena however it is a small market and hockey would be the number two winter sport in town. Kansas has a beautiful arena and AEG is the Arena operator. It's never been a great hockey town and this is a big college basketball area however hockey would have a punchers chance to succeed there with no NBA competition. KC however is a small market also. Houston is a big money with a lot of corporate headquarters, it has an NBA team , a beautiful arena and a willing owner in Tillman Fertitta. It's also a good hockey town with a long history of supporting WHA and minor league teams.

 

[aufheben]

Fight me

(there is a paywall, folks)

I have a subscription to The Athletic.

I just didn’t see a source mentioned or anything.

 

[Irishguy42]

I have a subscription to The Athletic.

I just didn’t see a source mentioned or anything.

At this point...do sources reeeeeeeally need to be posted anymore when shitting on the Yotes at a franchise/ownership level?

 

[aufheben]

At this point...do sources reeeeeeeally need to be posted anymore when shitting on the Yotes at a franchise/ownership level?

Not like an “HF rules” source. I was just curious and wanted to read the article.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Just put the Coyotes in Quebec and be done with it.

 

[OrangePMD]

Just put the Coyotes in Quebec and be done with it.

Coyotes have been in Arizona longer than the Nordiques were in Quebec, both WHA and NHL years combined. I don't see the point in giving a team to a city where hockey already failed.

 

[Matt Rentfree]

Coyotes have been in Arizona longer than the Nordiques were in Quebec, both WHA and NHL years combined. I don't see the point in giving a team to a city where hockey already failed.

I'm still baffled as to how that happened. I was there a couple of years ago and every other person in Quebec City was wearing Nordiques swag.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Coyotes have been in Arizona longer than the Nordiques were in Quebec, both WHA and NHL years combined. I don't see the point in giving a team to a city where hockey already failed.

Quebec was different then much like Winnipeg was different back then. They'd have no problem supporting a team now.

 

[Leetch3]

Coyotes have been in Arizona longer than the Nordiques were in Quebec, both WHA and NHL years combined. I don't see the point in giving a team to a city where hockey already failed.

the nordiques didn't fail in quebec because they didn't get fans. there attendance was over 90% almost year including the stretch that they picked 1st overall 3 years in a row as the worst team in the nhl...

they moved because the owner wanted the province to pay a new arena and they refused...so the owner sold the team. if they had gotten a new arena they wouldn't have moved and given the immediate success the team had in colorado the fan base would have been insane...obviously there would have to be a brand new arena before the nhl considered going back.

another issue pointed toward was being able to keep up with raising payrolls given the weak Canadian dollar as they made revenue in CDN and had to pay players in USD...but there is no protection against that with the salary cap. most of the highest revenue teams in the league are Canadian so if the canadian dollar ever tanks again it would drastically impact the leagues revenue and the cap

 

[OrangePMD]

Quebec was different then much like Winnipeg was different back then. They'd have no problem supporting a team now.

I wasn't actually serious about Quebec failing as a hockey city. Maybe I should start using emojis or something. It was more of a dig at people who refer to Coyotes as a failed experiment that should be moved, usually to Quebec.

 

[aufheben]

Quebec was different then much like Winnipeg was different back then. They'd have no problem supporting a team now.

Winnipeg has support but they don’t bring in a lot of $$$.

 

[Mikos87]

Salt Lake and Indy both have the same problem, the arenas (rebuilt in Salt Lake and newer build in Indianapolis both have a basketball elevation and are unsuitable for hockey (think Barclay's) There's a smaller building in Salt Lake where the ECHL team plays but I don't think that building can be easily expanded.

Portland is a great hockey town and has a beautiful arena however it is a small market and hockey would be the number two winter sport in town. Kansas has a beautiful arena and AEG is the Arena operator. It's never been a great hockey town and this is a big college basketball area however hockey would have a punchers chance to succeed there with no NBA competition. KC however is a small market also. Houston is a big money with a lot of corporate headquarters, it has an NBA team , a beautiful arena and a willing owner in Tillman Fertitta. It's also a good hockey town with a long history of supporting WHA and minor league teams.

Love spending time in Portland. Lots of good friends over there. But I just don't think it can support another team. Very small city relatively speaking if you look at the corporate world, you can draw a circle around downtown Brooklyn and the Southern belt and you would get the density, population and travel times in Portland. It would be another Barclays imo.

I would triple down on Austin over Houston. Lots of maturing millenials and new corporate jobs. Also have a ton of contacts there. Hell Austin getting it's own team? They'd sell a ton of merch. Don't think Houston would work, between the Rockets and Texans and college sports, you have a lot of competition. Austin would be the number 1 show in town, so it's a lot more like Vegas. When you have a smaller market where there is an incumbent team, or a big college sports following, you can't charge higher than what people pay for those teams. Add in that you won't penetrate most of the population, the financial upside goes down. The inverse would hold true with Austin. From what I heard, the league is looking into Austin.

If I'm looking at future growth, it's where you have growing job markets and families. Corporate deals, and 4 packs for tickets and concessions. Tesla, Joe Rogan, Oracle. That will get you season ticket holders, and some bulk sales. Not going to go wrong in either case. Actually I would put Austin well ahead of SLC for a candidate. Way more money to be made in Austin. SLC has a NBA team that has been steady for decades, so there's a different form of upside there that's been proven, which isn't too different from COL.

The NHL has done an absolute masterful job (Covid notwithstanding) of growing the game financially. There were 5 reliable bottom feeders (CBJ and OTT dug themselves out). Now there are three teams that consistently are in the bottom earner category (ARI, FLA, NYI). The three all have the same issue, which is, as you've seen just a bad real estate deal... and that gets compounded when you have other teams and options for fans. BTW what JD, Jarmo and Torts did in the last couple of years in CLB... that's what you call a turnaround.

The Isles are getting out of Barclays. Population increase, and downtown jobs didn't equate to profits. It's that travel time commitment.... not mom approved. There's no winning there. FLA I think fixes itself by moving to Central FLA. Gigantic corporate presence (Disney, Advent, etc), tourists bringing kids, and those family 4 packs. They won't go wrong.

 

[Boris Zubov]

the nordiques didn't fail in quebec because they didn't get fans. there attendance was over 90% almost year including the stretch that they picked 1st overall 3 years in a row as the worst team in the nhl...

they moved because the owner wanted the province to pay a new arena and they refused...so the owner sold the team. if they had gotten a new arena they wouldn't have moved and given the immediate success the team had in colorado the fan base would have been insane...obviously there would have to be a brand new arena before the nhl considered going back.

another issue pointed toward was being able to keep up with raising payrolls given the weak Canadian dollar as they made revenue in CDN and had to pay players in USD...but there is no protection against that with the salary cap. most of the highest revenue teams in the league are Canadian so if the canadian dollar ever tanks again it would drastically impact the leagues revenue and the cap

They've had a new arena for 4-5 years now.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Winnipeg has support but they don’t bring in a lot of $$$.

I don't think their owner cares about profits, he's the richest dude in Canada.. He probably uses the Jets as a write off.

 

[bobbop]

Love spending time in Portland. Lots of good friends over there. But I just don't think it can support another team. Very small city relatively speaking if you look at the corporate world, you can draw a circle around downtown Brooklyn and the Southern belt and you would get the density, population and travel times in Portland. It would be another Barclays imo.

I would triple down on Austin over Houston. Lots of maturing millenials and new corporate jobs. Also have a ton of contacts there. Hell Austin getting it's own team? They'd sell a ton of merch. Don't think Houston would work, between the Rockets and Texans and college sports, you have a lot of competition. Austin would be the number 1 show in town, so it's a lot more like Vegas. When you have a smaller market where there is an incumbent team, or a big college sports following, you can't charge higher than what people pay for those teams. Add in that you won't penetrate most of the population, the financial upside goes down. The inverse would hold true with Austin. From what I heard, the league is looking into Austin.

If I'm looking at future growth, it's where you have growing job markets and families. Corporate deals, and 4 packs for tickets and concessions. Tesla, Joe Rogan, Oracle. That will get you season ticket holders, and some bulk sales. Not going to go wrong in either case. Actually I would put Austin well ahead of SLC for a candidate. Way more money to be made in Austin. SLC has a NBA team that has been steady for decades, so there's a different form of upside there that's been proven, which isn't too different from COL.

The NHL has done an absolute masterful job (Covid notwithstanding) of growing the game financially. There were 5 reliable bottom feeders (CBJ and OTT dug themselves out). Now there are three teams that consistently are in the bottom earner category (ARI, FLA, NYI). The three all have the same issue, which is, as you've seen just a bad real estate deal... and that gets compounded when you have other teams and options for fans. BTW what JD, Jarmo and Torts did in the last couple of years in CLB... that's what you call a turnaround.

The Isles are getting out of Barclays. Population increase, and downtown jobs didn't equate to profits. It's that travel time commitment.... not mom approved. There's no winning there. FLA I think fixes itself by moving to Central FLA. Gigantic corporate presence (Disney, Advent, etc), tourists bringing kids, and those family 4 packs. They won't go wrong.

The problem with Austin is facilities. The University of Texas has has the Drum for many years and they monopolized the big arena business. They are now constructing a new $310MM Arena to replace the Drum. Any new arena built in Austin will have very stiff competition for events. Associates of mine tried for years to get an arena built in Austin to host a very successful Central Hockey League team without success. Eventually a smaller rink was built in Cedar Park, about 20 miles north of the city. That' s where the Texas Stars play. Dealing with Austin city government is somewhat like trying to get something built in California. Both the hockey and AA baseball people had to go to smaller cities to make something happen.

You are right about the very attractive demographics and business climate in Austin but don't sell Houston short. It's a huge market, loaded with corporate headquarters and a strong minor league hockey history. It's also been on the NHL radar for many years. The last owner of the Rockets had little interest in hockey but the Tillman Fertitta is a great businessman, very aggressive and he understands the value of a big league franchise. That's a lot of pieces lined up.

 

[Irishguy42]

Winnipeg has support but they don’t bring in a lot of $$$.

I mean, when you don't have an airport it's pretty difficult to bring in money.

 

[bl02]

If you would have told me that on February 17th the Blackhawks would have twice as many points as us (22-11) I would have told you that you were crazy. Good for them.

 

[duhmetreE]

If you would have told me that on February 17th the Blackhawks would have twice as many points as us (22-11) I would have told you that you were crazy. Good for them.

I haven't watched them play this season but their 3rd year coach seems to have the team trending in the right direction.

I was expecting to be where they are tbh