Around The NHL Part XXX

  • Xenforo Cloud will be upgrading us to version 2.3.5 on March 3rd at 12 AM GMT. This version has increased stability and fixes several bugs. We expect downtime for the duration of the update. The admin team will continue to work on existing issues, templates and upgrade all necessary available addons to minimize impact of this new version. Click Here for Updates
Status
Not open for further replies.
The Coyotes are a mess. The NHL is trying hard to keep that team in Arizona but they're going to be moved sooner rather than later

Let's not pretend this is a Coyotes problem. This is a league-wide problem.

- Craig MacTavish and Dany Heatley literally killed a person while drunk driving
- Bobby Hull and Thomas Steen are still celebrated and honored despite beating up their wives
- Auston Matthews was arrested for harrassing a woman at 2 AM by trying to break into her car
- Mike Hoffman's girlfriend was harrassing Erik Karlsson's pregnant wife (Okay, this is not really the player who is at fault here but still)
- Brendan Leipsic has his contract terminated for bullying/harrassing people in a group chat

I am sure there are other examples, but yeah... This problem goes a lot further than the Coyotes organization drafting Mitch Miller
 
  • Like
Reactions: JCProdigy
Let's not pretend this is a Coyotes problem. This is a league-wide problem.

- Craig MacTavish and Dany Heatley literally killed a person while drunk driving
- Bobby Hull and Thomas Steen are still celebrated and honored despite beating up their wives
- Auston Matthews was arrested for harrassing a woman at 2 AM by trying to break into her car
- Mike Hoffman's girlfriend was harrassing Erik Karlsson's pregnant wife (Okay, this is not really the player who is at fault here but still)
- Brendan Leipsic has his contract terminated for bullying/harrassing people in a group chat

I am sure there are other examples, but yeah... This problem goes a lot further than the Coyotes organization drafting Mitch Miller

Bobby Hull Praises Hitler
 
  • Like
Reactions: Filthy Dangles
Last NHL trade happened Oct. 12 or 16 days ago. Things are tight. 8 teams above the ceiling on cap friendly and another 11 with less than $5 mil to work with. A number of teams with RFA's still to sign or arbitrations coming up. I'm kind of wondering where Mike Hoffman is going to end up because like him or not he's got a f***ing shot and he can score goals.
 
Let's not pretend this is a Coyotes problem. This is a league-wide problem.

- Craig MacTavish and Dany Heatley literally killed a person while drunk driving
- Bobby Hull and Thomas Steen are still celebrated and honored despite beating up their wives
- Auston Matthews was arrested for harrassing a woman at 2 AM by trying to break into her car
- Mike Hoffman's girlfriend was harrassing Erik Karlsson's pregnant wife (Okay, this is not really the player who is at fault here but still)
- Brendan Leipsic has his contract terminated for bullying/harrassing people in a group chat

I am sure there are other examples, but yeah... This problem goes a lot further than the Coyotes organization drafting Mitch Miller

What Leipsic said was vile but it was meant to be a private chat if I remember---so I wouldn't throw into a bullying or harassing category. It was very stupid and I'm glad he's gone.

MacTavish served real time for his drunk driving homicide---Heatley didn't which surprised me because the ride that Heatley took Snyder on was very reckless and dangerous. I don't remember if Heatley was drunk though.

The wife and girlfriend beating stuff extends to episodes with Zubov, Patrick Kane, Voynov and Varlamov and probably a number of others. Sean Avery using an ex to get a shot in at Dion Phaneuf was abusive.

Kane and his buddies mugging and robbing a cab driver.

As for this Miller--this seemed to be a years long bullying project of a developmentally disabled and weaker black kid with racism very much a tool in Miller's toolbox. It's despicable......and it's very unclear whether he ever made a serious attempt at making amends with his victim. No way I would have drafted this kid.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Thirty One
I was just thinking of it, and its a short list, but is there any nation better than Russia in net right now? Vasilevsky, Shestyorkin, Bobrovski, Samsonov, Varlamov, with Sorokin and Askarov on the way

Read a recent article on this subject. What's even more fascinating is that this position was the greatest weakness in Russian hockey system as late as 2007 (!) when there were serious discussion about naturalization to give Russian citizenship to Taylor Moss (former Calgary AHL goalie with a few NHL games who played in the KHL). Around that time KHL instituted a "tax" on teams who used foreign goalies which forced a few teams to trust unproven young Russian goalies. The other reason was looking toward Finnish goalie development system to gain experience by sending our goalie coaches to learn there or bringing Finnish specialists to Russia.
 
  • Like
Reactions: B17 Apricots
Read a recent article on this subject. What's even more fascinating is that this position was the greatest weakness in Russian hockey system as late as 2007 (!) when there were serious discussion about naturalization to give Russian citizenship to Taylor Moss (former Calgary AHL goalie with a few NHL games who played in the KHL). Around that time KHL instituted a "tax" on teams who used foreign goalies which forced a few teams to trust unproven young Russian goalies. The other reason was looking toward Finnish goalie development system to gain experience by sending our goalie coaches to learn there or bringing Finnish specialists to Russia.
Even crazier is that usually a country might get one guy who can challenge for best in the league, Russia has potentially multiple
 
Let's not pretend this is a Coyotes problem. This is a league-wide problem.

- Craig MacTavish and Dany Heatley literally killed a person while drunk driving
- Bobby Hull and Thomas Steen are still celebrated and honored despite beating up their wives
- Auston Matthews was arrested for harrassing a woman at 2 AM by trying to break into her car
- Mike Hoffman's girlfriend was harrassing Erik Karlsson's pregnant wife (Okay, this is not really the player who is at fault here but still)
- Brendan Leipsic has his contract terminated for bullying/harrassing people in a group chat

I am sure there are other examples, but yeah... This problem goes a lot further than the Coyotes organization drafting Mitch Miller

Well, of the players mentioned Leipsic had his contract terminated and is no longer in the league (and he was a 4th liner bullying teammates - it crossed lines but was closer to tasteless trash talk than true bullying - if I remember correctly) and Hoffman’s wife isn’t a hockey player. The only current player mentioned is Matthews. Sure, the other guys are still respected, but it’s not like the league really shines a spotlight on any of them anymore. Matthews is a drunken child who probably could be the best goal scorer of his generation (may still be) if he partied less, palled around with celebs like Beiber less and cared about his so called fashion sense less, but he’s not exactly some kind of monster or bully.

To say it’s not a problem in the hockey culture would be disingenuous but it also seems the league has done a decent job of rooting it out at the NHL level in modern times. It seems very prevalent in junior, among players and coaches, but the NHL seems to have a decent handle on it. Leipsic was gone quite quickly.
 
It's despicable......and it's very unclear whether he ever made a serious attempt at making amends with his victim.

I would note that, at least to the victim and the victim's parents, judging by their comments, it is very clear that he has not made a serious attempt. That's the most disturbing thing. I don't know if the Coyotes could have had access to contact the victim and his family as they were checking into Miller but if they could have, they should have, along with any other team who didn't automatically have him on the DND list.
 
  • Like
Reactions: eco's bones
Let's not pretend this is a Coyotes problem. This is a league-wide problem.

- Craig MacTavish and Dany Heatley literally killed a person while drunk driving
- Bobby Hull and Thomas Steen are still celebrated and honored despite beating up their wives
- Auston Matthews was arrested for harrassing a woman at 2 AM by trying to break into her car
- Mike Hoffman's girlfriend was harrassing Erik Karlsson's pregnant wife (Okay, this is not really the player who is at fault here but still)
- Brendan Leipsic has his contract terminated for bullying/harrassing people in a group chat

I am sure there are other examples, but yeah... This problem goes a lot further than the Coyotes organization drafting Mitch Miller

I mean in general I'd say it's a problem with sports where you often have people who are raised from a young age to think they are special and every excuse is made for them and their behavior all through their lives and they very very very rarely face serious consequences for anything they do. From what I understand junior hockey in Canada is a gross mess that no one really wants to talk about or do anything about, and I'm sure the same is mostly true about US college athletes (not accountable for anything, massive excuses made for them if they sexually assault people or do other heinous shit). Don't know about other countries and their sports programs but honestly would not be surprised if a lot of that stuff exists there as well.

As for this Miller--this seemed to be a years long bullying project of a developmentally disabled and weaker black kid with racism very much a tool in Miller's toolbox. It's despicable......and it's very unclear whether he ever made a serious attempt at making amends with his victim. No way I would have drafted this kid.



Until the whole sports apparatus stops making excuses for people doing shitty things we're gonna keep having people do shitty things because some of them never learn that it's wrong and something they shouldn't do
 
Racism, sexism, abuse, and violence are rampant far beyond the scope of sports. The NHL is a business, the Arizona Coyotes are a corporation. The only reason these kinds of entities would change anything about their product, including the personnel they hire, the background checks they employ, or the general standard of conduct they enforce is if not doing so would hurt their profit margins. The NHL this summer played on the night the NBA and MLB began their boycott. The next day, spurned by bad press, they followed suit.

I don't think the Coyotes did the right thing by drafting Miller. I don't think the Senators did the right thing signing Austin Watson. On the other hand, how many players that were just drafted have done something similar to Miller? What are the Coyotes willing to do to demand change and atonement from the player moving forward? And how can we know one way or another?

People put to much faith in corporate entities to be the harbinger of ethics across society. One alternative way of looking at all of this is that, had he not been drafted, would the story have reached so many people? Would it have been covered at all by media outlets like Sportsnet or The Athletic? Would we be demanding as much from the NHL as we now are, or would we happily presume that such problems aren't pervasive?

Miller, old enough to be drafted, needs to hold himself to account, as the victim's mother said, not to the NHL or even to we as fans, but to the boy he abused. The Coyotes drafting him may actually end up being the best means of getting that to happen. I'm not optimistic, but this league, and the culture it partakes in, is cut-throat. Wins = Dollars. And the bottom line is that any and every team in the league, in every league, aims for Dollars above anything else. So they'll keep drafting people like Miller. Next time, I'm sure, they'll be more proactive about either repressing the story or submitting their own redemptive narrative before it breaks.
 
  • Like
Reactions: kovazub94 and Tob
I don't think it's unreasonable to be saying we need to start demanding more out of our society when it comes to shit like this, and that includes corporations, etc. We for too long accept the idea of "well since they only care about profits it's ok to excuse the fact that they don't try to do anything about this shit". Maybe focusing purely on profits and operating in a completely amoral manner is not something we should accept.
 
I would note that, at least to the victim and the victim's parents, judging by their comments, it is very clear that he has not made a serious attempt. That's the most disturbing thing. I don't know if the Coyotes could have had access to contact the victim and his family as they were checking into Miller but if they could have, they should have, along with any other team who didn't automatically have him on the DND list.

Just wondering where was he projected to go? Was he always a 4th rounder? Or did teams know enough to affect his likely position?
 
Racism, sexism, abuse, and violence are rampant far beyond the scope of sports. The NHL is a business, the Arizona Coyotes are a corporation. The only reason these kinds of entities would change anything about their product, including the personnel they hire, the background checks they employ, or the general standard of conduct they enforce is if not doing so would hurt their profit margins. The NHL this summer played on the night the NBA and MLB began their boycott. The next day, spurned by bad press, they followed suit.

I don't think the Coyotes did the right thing by drafting Miller. I don't think the Senators did the right thing signing Austin Watson. On the other hand, how many players that were just drafted have done something similar to Miller? What are the Coyotes willing to do to demand change and atonement from the player moving forward? And how can we know one way or another?

People put to much faith in corporate entities to be the harbinger of ethics across society. One alternative way of looking at all of this is that, had he not been drafted, would the story have reached so many people? Would it have been covered at all by media outlets like Sportsnet or The Athletic? Would we be demanding as much from the NHL as we now are, or would we happily presume that such problems aren't pervasive?

Miller, old enough to be drafted, needs to hold himself to account, as the victim's mother said, not to the NHL or even to we as fans, but to the boy he abused. The Coyotes drafting him may actually end up being the best means of getting that to happen. I'm not optimistic, but this league, and the culture it partakes in, is cut-throat. Wins = Dollars. And the bottom line is that any and every team in the league, in every league, aims for Dollars above anything else. So they'll keep drafting people like Miller. Next time, I'm sure, they'll be more proactive about either repressing the story or submitting their own redemptive narrative before it breaks.

His story was out there pre-draft. People knew, it just wasn't as widespread - and to call it "widespread" is even a stretch - as it is now. Him getting drafted with Arizona's first pick of the draft (after already having lost their higher 2020 pick because of their off-season training/testing debacle) put an even bigger and brighter spotlight on his profile.

As people have mentioned before, abhorrent behavior like this doesn't spring up over night. What's the old saying, a fish rots from the head down? The fact that his parents didn't drag him by his ears and sideburns at any point to apologize or do ANYTHING to turn any part of the situation into a learning experience speaks about them as well. Seems like all they cared about was the fact that he could play hockey. And when he's behaving like he has and apparently has never dealt with any punishment at home, no punishment in middle school/high school/college, no punishment from any of the teams he played on..what does he care, ultimately? I mean he obviously should care, which points to a much more deeply rooted problem within Miller. He's been rewarded at every step for acting the way he has. He was accepted to the UND program with no frills. Looks like he kept his scholarship too. Here's UND's statement: "We made a decision that our program could provide him the necessary infrastructure and culture to hone not only his hockey abilities but most importantly, assist him in his continuing growth as a human being which will last him the remainder of his life." More access to all sorts of top level services to help him go from "Complete f***ing scumbag piece of shit" to "Somewhat passable human hopefully if anything clicks inside his shit-covered brain", and the poor kid that was tortured and his family have to sit by and watch Miller get a shot at making millions by playing a game.

The first thing the Coyotes should be doing is getting him therapy and having him taking emotional/anger/etc. management classes. If he can ever find his balls and grow the courage and empathy to sincerely apologize face-to-face to the kid he bullied for half a decade, that is step 1. If he can't muster up a real apology, I hear Target is always hiring.
 
I legit laughed the whole time i was reading this. Dude should of been a Boomer lmao.

As a hockey player Bobby Hull was something of a primadonna as in he thought he should be untouchable. He would often be in the press bemoaning other teams for checking him close or putting a shadow on him--or whenever another team had a tougher lineup than his he would carp about physical play too. Always whining--always not getting paid enough or not getting enough respect from the opposition. Before Mario came along he was the ultimate diva.
 
As a hockey player Bobby Hull was something of a primadonna as in he thought he should be untouchable. He would often be in the press bemoaning other teams for checking him close or putting a shadow on him--or whenever another team had a tougher lineup than his he would carp about physical play too. Always whining--always not getting paid enough or not getting enough respect from the opposition. Before Mario came along he was the ultimate diva.
He is what people think Crosby is but isn’t.
 
He is what people think Crosby is but isn’t.

'Is' in Hull's case is more like 'was' now but that's a good observation. Off ice Crosby actually is a good actor--he's never gone to the press overmuch to gripe about anything.

The Red Wings had a guy Bryan 'Bugsy' Watson who use to drive Hull right up the wall and Hull would regularly rip into Watson to the press. Mind you Watson wasn't a great player and he was small but he was one of those gnarly little guys that if you let him get under your skin it was shades of Sean Avery. That went on for a few years. Hull crying his eyes out about how unfair the game was after every game with the Red Wings and Watson was really only just doing his job. Mario use to complain about Jan Erixon just the same.
 
  • Like
Reactions: egelband
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad