Around The NHL Part XXVIII

[HFsNumber1Heel]

If I'm not mistaken, NYR tried to get Martin in FA years ago, the offseason he went to TOR.

He's from Ontario and the Maple Leafs gave him the "Jim Benning 4th liner special" contract.

 

[MysticLeviathan]

Many isles fans I know totally dismissed the fact that we went to 3 conference finals in 4 years including a SCF because we didn't win the cup. I just find it amusing that shit franchise makes it to one in nearly 3 decades and now its a big deal. It's all about the cup and with the talent already on the Rangers and soon to be I'm convinced we have a real shot in the not too distant future.

If you're not in first, you're in last. And it's arguably worse because your draft pick is much lower. At least making it to the SCF means you get the Wales Trophy/Campbell Bowl.

Ultimately, it's a non-issue in a year where I personally feel the Cup is tainted. While next year may be a shortened season, at least it will be planned out and properly scheduled, unlike this fustercluck of a season.

 

[Machinehead]

Neither would I and I'm not happy about it.

He sucks. We could do better.

This says more about us but he would probably be the best defensive player on the team.

 

[Machinehead]

The trade got us a first round pick. The pick got us Nils Lundkvist. Who has yet to play in the NHL.

Some preschooler who's going to have 1,700 points someday has yet to play in the NHL.

What does that mean?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

If Tampa blows this series how can Cooper survive?

Jumping out of a plane? Seems to work for Coopers

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

That trade got us Nils Lundkvist. Still a long time before we can figure out if it was a good trade.

And Henriksson.

Look, JT Miller was never going to be an effective player in New York. He literally said the 2nd trade in 15 months was the wake-up call he needed to turn his career around. McDonagh's new contract would have been 8m+ in New York and I'm glad we didn't commit to that. If we were going to trade him, this was it.

It was unfortunate that it was the same deadline where Karlsson was on the block, and I understand fans are not thrilled with Howden and Hajek, but the trade was not as bad as fans make it out to be. It was one of the lesser trades by Gorton but it's not a dumpster fire trade like Rutherford giving up a 1st and a good prospect for a 3rd line winger in Kapanen

 

[NYR94]

Ottawa gave them fits that season. I remember the CFO of my old job who was a huge Rangers fan gave me tickets in early 2012 vs. the Sens and they took it pretty good to the Rangers and won that game.

Following that season is when the narrative here started changing about elite talent and drafting. It went something like this;

2005-2009; Hey the Rangers have young guys in the lineup, wow this is cool and unusual.
2009-2012: Wow the Rangers have so many fairly effective young players in the lineup this is cool
2012-2019: This team has no killer instinct and always drafts these complimentary mid 6ers and 2nd pari DMen.

I still remember what it was like just seeing young guys like Stepan, Dubinsky and Callahan in the lineup and contributing as homegrown players and getting all excited. Seems quaint compared to the youth in the organization now.

 

[Ghost of jas]

I would not be shocked to see Matt Martin on our 4th line next season for a lot of reasons

Just no

 

[IronBloodedLion]

Time really flies. I didn’t realize how old the Islanders were. A lot of that team is either over or pushing 30. They’re going to have a lot of decisions to make going forward. Also, I’m stating the obvious, but Barry Trotz is helluva coach. He had them not only buying into the system, but playing hard that entire series. They just couldn’t overcome the depth of Tampa.

I’m looking forward to the Cup final. I think Tampa has to win this thing with their cap crunch coming. They seem like a team that won’t be denied, but still, Dallas has surprised thus far. They’re playing like the team we expected before the season started.

 

[Richard Banger]

You called it, man you are really smart.

I don't know why your always ready to dispute the kid. He likes to make predictions so what?

 

[eco's bones]

I've always kind of liked Matt Martin. You pretty much know what you're getting from him. He's consistent as all get out. You're going to get 5 or 6 really good hits pretty much every game for one thing. He's coming off a really good playoffs here too. That said---I have some doubt he'll sign with the Rangers and if he did it would almost mean he'd be fighting Ross Johnston at least twice a year and Martin's a good fighter but he'll be over his head there. He won't win those. I also wonder if he's getting to that age of diminishing returns and we'd be better off just staying away.

 

[Richard Banger]

Stars in 5.

If Mark Stone (one of the best two way forwards in the league) can't shutdown Benn no one can.

Tampa doesn't have the depth to keep up with the Stars either.

and the Stars have been doing this without one of their best scores. If Seguin gets hot.... oh boi.

 

[NYRangers0723]

Well the playoffs ended up working out great for us despite getting swept. Win the lottery, the Carolina pick moves up a couple sports, and the Isles lost

 

[Edge]

And Henriksson.

Look, JT Miller was never going to be an effective player in New York. He literally said the 2nd trade in 15 months was the wake-up call he needed to turn his career around. McDonagh's new contract would have been 8m+ in New York and I'm glad we didn't commit to that. If we were going to trade him, this was it.

It was unfortunate that it was the same deadline where Karlsson was on the block, and I understand fans are not thrilled with Howden and Hajek, but the trade was not as bad as fans make it out to be. It was one of the lesser trades by Gorton but it's not a dumpster fire trade like Rutherford giving up a 1st and a good prospect for a 3rd line winger in Kapanen

Trade was fair value for the time, that's what you aim for and then hope the rest works out.

It took Miller more fourth lime demotions, a trade to Vancouver and one of the better 1-2 center punches in hockey to become what he is now...which incidently looks awfully close to what he was here, albeit it with that 1-2 punch I mentioned.

Regardless, I don't think it happens here. Just like I don't think Brassard becomes what he becomes in Columbus. Or ADA becomes what he is if he stays in Phoenix, etc. etc.

In the grand scheme of things, we walked away with two assets that have played 169 NHL games for us over the last two seasons, a pick that we turned into one of the best defensive prospects outside the NHL, and another prospect with promise. We then used the money to make moves that helped us bring in Panarin and Trouba and re-sign Kreider.

To this day, I'm not quite sure what deal everyone thought was out there to be had.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I don't know why your always ready to dispute the kid. He likes to make predictions so what?

It wasn't a prediction it was a sarcastic comment he made that was supposed to show how much he knew, and it did, because it blew up in his face.

 

[Edge]

Dallas vs Tampa SCF, can't wait to use all the extra 1st rounders this is going to net the Rangers.....

What's really funny is that between both teams, McD is the only one left who was traded to his current team.

It feels like it's been ages, but it's only been like 2.5 years.

 

[Trxjw]

Trade was fair value for the time, that's what you aim for and then hope the rest works out.

It took Miller more fourth lime demotions, a trade to Vancouver and one of the better 1-2 center punches in hockey to become what he is now...which incidently looks awfully close to what he was here, albeit it with that 1-2 punch I mentioned.

Regardless, I don't think it happens here. Just like I don't think Brassard becomes what he becomes in Columbus. Or ADA becomes what he is if he stays in Phoenix, etc. etc.

In the grand scheme of things, we walked away with two assets that have played 169 NHL games for us over the last two seasons, a pick that we turned into one of the best defensive prospects outside the NHL, and another prospect with promise. We then used the money to make moves that helped us bring in Panarin and Trouba and re-sign Kreider.

To this day, I'm not quite sure what deal everyone thought was out there to be had.

Re: The bolded. That was one of the more frustrating topics to be discussed around here in recent years. We had the blueprint in Yandle. We even discussed the pieces weeks before it went down in Howden and Hajek specifically. We said repeatedly that the "bang" in the trade would likely come from hitting on one of the picks. Yet people clung to what Brooks was shilling in his articles saying "The deal must include Sergachev or Point!" The same way he was declaring Stepan had to return Keller from Arizona.

 

[Edge]

Re: The bolded. That was one of the more frustrating topics to be discussed around here in recent years. We had the blueprint in Yandle. We even discussed the pieces weeks before it went down in Howden and Hajek specifically. We said repeatedly that the "bang" in the trade would likely come from hitting on one of the picks. Yet people clung to what Brooks was shilling in his articles saying "The deal must include Sergachev or Point!" The same way he was declaring Stepan had to return Keller from Arizona.

And that was after he stated Marner needed to be a target from Toronto.

I can tell everyone, beyond a shadow of a doubt, those names were never on the table.

A lot of these deals were essentially the same tier of players and assets: late firsts, former late first and early second round picks who turned into a solid, but not necessarily spectacular prospects, and maybe a player in his mid-20s who could go either way in his career.

That's what was the on the table, whether it was Tampa, or Boston, or Toronto, or whoever at that time.

It's Howden or Raddysh. It's Hajek or Spencer. It's Lindgren or Andersson. Those are your choices.

It's pick 45 or its pick 49. It's an extra third round pick to sweeten the deal, or they keep the pick and you negotiate a chance for the second to turn into a first if criteria is met.

Those are the choices.

Not Sergachev, Marner or Keller. Or two guaranteed firsts. Or one of a team's top 3 prospects.

And it's the same reason why a few years from now the cost for the Rangers to rent guys in their late 20s/early 30s is going to be our second round picks, or someone like Skinner, or someone like Henriksson.

 

[Trxjw]

And that was after he stated Marner needed to be a target from Toronto.

I can tell everyone, beyond a shadow of a doubt, those names were never on the table.

A lot of these deals were essentially the same tier of players and assets: late firsts, former late first and early second round picks who turned into a solid, but not necessarily spectacular prospects, and maybe a player in his mid-20s who could go either way in his career.

That's what was the on the table, whether it was Tampa, or Boston, or Toronto, or whoever at that time.

It's Howden or Raddysh. It's Hajek or Spencer. It's Lindgren or Andersson. Those are your choices.

It's pick 45 or its pick 49. It's an extra third round pick to sweeten the deal, or they keep the pick and you negotiate a chance for the second to turn into a first if criteria is met.

Those are the choices.

Not Sergachev, Marner or Keller. Or two guaranteed firsts. Or one of a team's top 3 prospects.

And it's the same reason why a few years from now the cost for the Rangers to rent guys in their late 20s/early 30s is going to be our second round picks, or someone like Skinner, or someone like Henriksson.

Which is my one real gripe with Brooks. He's atrocious when it comes to analyzing trade value. I realize there's a need to sell papers and that requires some level of sensationalism but he's just always wildly off base.

There was also the line folks were holding about keeping McDonagh until the draft, assuming his value would sky-rocket. I can see people doing something similar now with Georgiev. Making the assumption that his value can only go up, even if he's put in a position that can really only sink his value. Unless Shesterkin suffers a major injury and he has to take over the starting job, there's no value to be built up playing in a back-up role.

I know I'm preaching to the choir here and I don't want to deny anyone any joy they get from debating fantasy trades but sometimes I wish folks would evolve in their opinions to a stance more rooted in reality.

 

[JohnC]

I wish folks would evolve in their opinions to a stance more rooted in reality.

I would literally rather DIE.

 

[Edge]

Which is my one real gripe with Brooks. He's atrocious when it comes to analyzing trade value. I realize there's a need to sell papers and that requires some level of sensationalism but he's just always wildly off base.

There was also the line folks were holding about keeping McDonagh until the draft, assuming his value would sky-rocket. I can see people doing something similar now with Georgiev. Making the assumption that his value can only go up, even if he's put in a position that can really only sink his value. Unless Shesterkin suffers a major injury and he has to take over the starting job, there's no value to be built up playing in a back-up role.

I know I'm preaching to the choir here and I don't want to deny anyone any joy they get from debating fantasy trades but sometimes I wish folks would evolve in their opinions to a stance more rooted in reality.

The last point is one of the reasons I don't put too much stock into how other teams' fans "react" to trade proposals. Aside from the fact that it isn't their decision to make, and that most of them are no more qualified to evaluate hockey talent than they are to perform a root canal, I find that most fans will always shoot for the moon.

Here on the HF Boards, fans particularly value younger talent and picks. Everyone wants the budding superstar on their roster, and they either think their lower tier guys are going to become that player, or they want to acquire said player for their lower tier guys. We tend to love reclamation projects!

And different boards become fixated on different players. More often than not, on the chance they actually acquire said player they lusted after, they quickly find out why the previous fan base wasn't head over heels for him.

What's good for the Rangers is that they have an opportunity to become one of those teams that has some legit blue chip/top prospects and thus can afford to move their second or even third tier prospects without causing a crisis among their fans.

 

[Leetch3]

Which is my one real gripe with Brooks. He's atrocious when it comes to analyzing trade value. I realize there's a need to sell papers and that requires some level of sensationalism but he's just always wildly off base.

There was also the line folks were holding about keeping McDonagh until the draft, assuming his value would sky-rocket. I can see people doing something similar now with Georgiev. Making the assumption that his value can only go up, even if he's put in a position that can really only sink his value. Unless Shesterkin suffers a major injury and he has to take over the starting job, there's no value to be built up playing in a back-up role.

I know I'm preaching to the choir here and I don't want to deny anyone any joy they get from debating fantasy trades but sometimes I wish folks would evolve in their opinions to a stance more rooted in reality.

I sometimes think that people come up with ideas and theories in their heads and then think if they repeat it enough times that it must be true. not just trades but also coach interaction with players and things that we can't possibly know. I have no issue with the fantasy trades and discussing them can be fun. but the line between 'I think this would be a good idea' and 'I KNOW this info is true' somehow gets blurred.

 

[Leetch3]

The last point is one of the reasons I don't put too much stock into how other teams' fans "react" to trade proposals. Aside from the fact that it isn't their decision to make, and that most of them are no more qualified to evaluate hockey talent than they are to perform a root canal, I find that most fans will always shoot for the moon.

Here on the HF Boards, fans particularly value younger talent and picks. Everyone wants the budding superstar on their roster, and they either think their lower tier guys are going to become that player, or they want to acquire said player for their lower tier guys. We tend to love reclamation projects!

And different boards become fixated on different players. More often than not, on the chance they actually acquire said player they lusted after, they quickly find out why the previous fan base wasn't head over heels for him.

What's good for the Rangers is that they have an opportunity to become one of those teams that has some legit blue chip/top prospects and thus can afford to move their second or even third tier prospects without causing a crisis among their fans.

I stay away from the main boards for this reason, if i'm going to read unrealistic trades i'll do it here where the rangers win the deals LOL...

but I have zero issue with fans wanting the moon. we SHOULD have wanted point or sergachev in the mcdonagh deal. the part that drives me nuts though are the people who afterwards act like they were offered and JG said no...be disappointed that we couldn't get them but lets get a grasp of reality and know that we didn't get them cause they weren't offered.

 

[Trxjw]

The last point is one of the reasons I don't put too much stock into how other teams' fans "react" to trade proposals. Aside from the fact that it isn't their decision to make, and that most of them are no more qualified to evaluate hockey talent than they are to perform a root canal, I find that most fans will always shoot for the moon.

Here on the HF Boards, fans particularly value younger talent and picks. Everyone wants the budding superstar on their roster, and they either think their lower tier guys are going to become that player, or they want to acquire said player for their lower tier guys. We tend to love reclamation projects!

And different boards become fixated on different players. More often than not, on the chance they actually acquire said player they lusted after, they quickly find out why the previous fan base wasn't head over heels for him.

What's good for the Rangers is that they have an opportunity to become one of those teams that has some legit blue chip/top prospects and thus can afford to move their second or even third tier prospects without causing a crisis among their fans.

Reclamation projects? No idea what you're talking about. *cough* *Deletes post on the possible benefits of Nick Ritchie if we lose Lemieux*

All great points. I just feel like there are a lot of really intelligent, well-informed posters on this board in particular. However, when it comes to trade proposals those same folks tend to put down the logic and pick up their PS4 controllers. I'm guilty of it as well but I'm taking it one day at a time.

 

[Trxjw]

I sometimes think that people come up with ideas and theories in their heads and then think if they repeat it enough times that it must be true. not just trades but also coach interaction with players and things that we can't possibly know. I have no issue with the fantasy trades and discussing them can be fun. but the line between 'I think this would be a good idea' and 'I KNOW this info is true' somehow gets blurred.

Also probably true and like I said, I don't want to deny anyone the opportunity to discuss fantasy scenarios. But I do get frustrated when I see people chiding Gorton for blowing trades that were only on the table in their imagination.