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Around The NHL Part XXVI

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GoAwayStaal said:
Lmao what?

The hell were you watching? We applied almost NO pressure in the NZ under AV, zone entires against have been a huge problem for this team ever since Torts left. They were less pronounced in 2013-14 because they generated a ton of offense as well. The idea that a bunch of guys (like the Penguins, who run an entirely different structure in their own end and in the NZ) is complete and utter BS. This is the #1 reason why Philly, who the 13-14 team should have trounced in 4 or 5, were able to hang around through 7 games with this team.

Playing tighter to one another in the defensive zone is NOT a minor difference dude. Colorado doesn't play the over load man or give up their own blue line as easily as any of the AV teams have (I realize I am saying this while they're currently getting their asses kicked, but its the truth.) AV's system tried to choke out other teams along the walls by taking away their space via overloading, but it also opened up the red sea in the middle of the ice where far too many picks got through, led to plays chasing and getting way out of position, etc. If you do that while allowing the other team to gain your blue line pretty much unimpeded, thats pretty much hockey suicide. The problems only became more pronounced as the team got weaker and Hank couldn't bail their asses out on the regular anymore, that I agree with, but those problems have been there since the beginning of his tenure here.

If your system requires basically an all star defense, it's not a good system. Im not going to argue that everyone needs to employ a Trotz approach to hockey to be successful, but you can't do what AV does and expect to win anything in this league.
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NZ pressure and strategy at the blue line aren’t really the same thing. They absolutely did give up the blue line a lot, which was mostly an acknowledgement that they didn’t have defenders mobile enough to stand up at it without getting beat with no chance of recovery. On the flip side, the Penguins did have a mobile enough blue line, so they didn’t give up the blue line as much.

Watch the MSL overtime goal against Montreal. While all of that play does take place in the offensive zone, we saw nearly identical plays happen in the NZ all the time. Their strategy high in the OZ wasn’t all that different from their strategy in the NZ. Teams couldn’t handle the pressure the Rangers would put on them. It led to all kinds of rushes for the Rangers. It also was a high risk system leading to chances going the other way, but when you have a team capable of playing it, which the Rangers did for a couple of years, those risks are acceptable. The Rangers played this way successfully without an all star defense. So did the Pens, when they won those Cups.

Bednar’s system still largely plays man to man in the D zone, at least when they aren’t getting shelled, even if they play a little tighter than the AV system does. I do consider it a minor difference that they’re not going to the boards quite as much, because the aim of the system is still the same. Keep your feet moving to transition as quickly as possible. Avoid lateral D to D passes, where possible in favor of moving the puck up, even if that means stretch pass. And they do still try to overload along the boards, but they pull back sooner than the Rangers did. When Bednar first got to Colorado, he made it clear that he was fine with a certain amount of “aggressive mistakes.” Just as AV is. Just as a lot of coaches are.
 
Tawnos said:
NZ pressure and strategy at the blue line aren’t really the same thing. They absolutely did give up the blue line a lot, which was mostly an acknowledgement that they didn’t have defenders mobile enough to stand up at it without getting beat with no chance of recovery. On the flip side, the Penguins did have a mobile enough blue line, so they didn’t give up the blue line as much.

Watch the MSL overtime goal against Montreal. While all of that play does take place in the offensive zone, we saw nearly identical plays happen in the NZ all the time. Their strategy high in the OZ wasn’t all that different from their strategy in the NZ. Teams couldn’t handle the pressure the Rangers would put on them. It led to all kinds of rushes for the Rangers. It also was a high risk system leading to chances going the other way, but when you have a team capable of playing it, which the Rangers did for a couple of years, those risks are acceptable. The Rangers played this way successfully without an all star defense. So did the Pens, when they won those Cups.

Bednar’s system still largely plays man to man in the D zone, at least when they aren’t getting shelled, even if they play a little tighter than the AV system does. I do consider it a minor difference that they’re not going to the boards quite as much, because the aim of the system is still the same. Keep your feet moving to transition as quickly as possible. Avoid lateral D to D passes, where possible in favor of moving the puck up, even if that means stretch pass. And they do still try to overload along the boards, but they pull back sooner than the Rangers did. When Bednar first got to Colorado, he made it clear that he was fine with a certain amount of “aggressive mistakes.” Just as AV is. Just as a lot of coaches are.
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They 100% did have guys who could recover and it would have really played to Staal's strengths when he had strengths. Stralman was even better at preventing entries. The only guy who would have really been hampered with this was Girardi. He has a D that is plenty mobile in Philly and they give up the BL on the regular.

Bednar's system (just like Sullivan's) doesn't send multiple people chasing behind the net. It happens every now and then since players are human and mistakes happen, but not with the regularity that they happen with under AV. Even if they do overload, the pull back that you mentioned is a big difference and the Pens also overload from a zone approach, it's a much safer way to do things that takes inevitable human error out of the equation. Aggressive mistakes are preferable to passive ones, 10000000% on that. But if you keep making the same aggressive mistakes, yeah, not so great.

This is before getting to AV's approach with the lead, which still exists and is dumb and don't even get me started with the way he's handled matchups, especially against the Isles.
 
GoAwayStaal said:
They 100% did have guys who could recover and it would have really played to Staal's strengths when he had strengths. Stralman was even better at preventing entries. The only guy who would have really been hampered with this was Girardi. He has a D that is plenty mobile in Philly and they give up the BL on the regular.

Bednar's system (just like Sullivan's) doesn't send multiple people chasing behind the net. It happens every now and then since players are human and mistakes happen, but not with the regularity that they happen with under AV. Even if they do overload, the pull back that you mentioned is a big difference and the Pens also overload from a zone approach, it's a much safer way to do things that takes inevitable human error out of the equation. Aggressive mistakes are preferable to passive ones, 10000000% on that. But if you keep making the same aggressive mistakes, yeah, not so great.

This is before getting to AV's approach with the lead, which still exists and is dumb and don't even get me started with the way he's handled matchups, especially against the Isles.
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You know what? You’re right, the Flyers do the same thing at the blue line. So that’s on AV for not adapting. As I said, he has a problem with that.

Staal’s eye injury happened before AV was here. His skating might’ve been mobile enough, but his game definitely wasn’t mobile enough anymore.

I have mixed feelings about his strategy with the lead. On one hand, I hate it. On the other hand, it’s hard not to acknowledge how well it worked out for them 99% of the time. The only time it didn’t really was the Final against LA. To me, that series will always be two perfectly matched systems with one team just slightly better at theirs than the other. Still say we would have beaten Chicago.
 
Tawnos said:
You know what? You’re right, the Flyers do the same thing at the blue line. So that’s on AV for not adapting. As I said, he has a problem with that.

Staal’s eye injury happened before AV was here. His skating might’ve been mobile enough, but his game definitely wasn’t mobile enough anymore.

I have mixed feelings about his strategy with the lead. On one hand, I hate it. On the other hand, it’s hard not to acknowledge how well it worked out for them 99% of the time. The only time it didn’t really was the Final against LA. To me, that series will always be two perfectly matched systems with one team just slightly better at theirs than the other. Still say we would have beaten Chicago.
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I think so too, mostly because its clear that they were running out of gas with all the hockey they had played (finals in 2013, half of their team in the olympics, etc.)
 
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Having lived in Texas for five years and failed at finding a suitable career post military moving back to NY, I now live in Dallas, directly next to the Stars arena and I’m loving this. Wish the games were being played here. But I know Victory Square’s gonna be busy if Dallas makes the finals.
 
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It's so weird seeing a Flyers team play absolutely terrified of physical contact.
 
Holy f*** this series is unwatchable. I won’t blame it all on the Islanders thought. Flyers are pulling their weight in that regard.
 
KirkAlbuquerque said:
Holy f*** this series is unwatchable. I won’t blame it all on the Islanders thought. Flyers are pulling their weight in that regard.
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Overall, the series both these teams have been involved in have been amongst the most boring and unwatchable. Against one another it’s atrocious. Going from yesterday’s games, to the earlier game today, to this is just excruciating.
 
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