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Around The NHL Part XXVI

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GoAwayStaal said:
The Caps had Holtby in net who has been awful for a while. Them losing is not that surprising.

His regular season resume was built on the backs of the 2 best goalies of the post lockout generation. That is fact. I've already said that his 2011 Cup final team would have won if they were healthy, the 2015 Rangers probably beat Tampa if they were healthy too. He was out coached in both series despite all of the injuries (Trying to force the Stepan to match up against Johnson's line even though they got slaughtered in this situation. Brass' line killed Johnsons line when they were out there at the same time but nope, gotta stick with Stepan because, reasons. Tanner Glass was also out there vs Stamkos and crew for the game winners in game 5 and 7. Those were home games.)

He's a guy who has been unbelievably lucky to have the goalies he has had. They're the only reason he's still working as a head coach in this league. At the end of the day, he's a guy who still makes the same mistakes that he was making 10 years ago and they continue to lead to sub par post season performances by a team that really should be doing much better than they are. Its not just the Islander Series here, Montreal put it on Philly too and that team, while not a great matchup for him, are not that good.
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Yeah all the successful coaches in this league had elite players on their teams. Especially ones that won the cup. AV would have been much better off with a crosby or Malkin than a high end goalie come playoff time. He proved he could win with backup goalies in net. Talbot and Raanta had ridiculous records here. Talbot was 33-15. There is no point in debating since its always the same excuse. I have no doubt the intelligent hockey minds across the NHL know AV is a terrific coach. That is why he gets rehired.
 
KirkAlbuquerque said:
The Vegas 4th line actually doing things a 4th line should... this is almost alien to me.
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As much as it would be nice to see vancouver win Vegas is the best team in the NHL and barring injuries they should win the cup.
 
bl02 said:
Yeah all the successful coaches in this league had elite players on their teams. Especially ones that won the cup. AV would have been much better off with a crosby or Malkin than a high end goalie come playoff time. He proved he could win with backup goalies in net. Talbot and Raanta had ridiculous records here. Talbot was 33-15. There is no point in debating since its always the same excuse. I have no doubt the intelligent hockey minds across the NHL know AV is a terrific coach. That is why he gets rehired.
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He wouldn't, because even with those players he'd sit on any leads he may have and he wouldn't have the goalie to bail him out. I mean he had the Sedins in their prime years and the high end goalie. Crosby and Malkin they weren't, but those guys were pretty good...

You realize that Talbot was also relied on heavily to bail his team out during the 6 or so weeks that Hank was out right? He was the main reason that they won the Presidents' trophy that year. He gave the team Hank-like performances while actual Hank was on the mend (his high danger save% that year was actually better than Hank's!) This had nothing to do with AV's coaching, dude was a beast and rightfully won the Macdonald award that year.

The NHL recycles coaches like it's good for the environment. We've seen many a bad coaches get a second opportunity (John Hynes anyone?) so I wouldn't really take AV getting multiple opportunities as a feather in his cap. If anything, having a good, not great, goalie will expose the truth to those who don't already see it. Even if he gets another opportunity after he inevitably flames out of Philly, that just really reinforces the fact that there are dumb people running teams in this league.
 
KirkAlbuquerque said:
The Vegas 4th line actually doing things a 4th line should... this is almost alien to me.
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I have confidence that our 4th line and bottom 6 will be improved when the time is right...filling that depth is the easy part and was neglected as we tried to get elite talent. now that we have that top end talent, once some cap space clears after next year I think you will see our roster rounded out to a more complete team...

and we should hopefully have an actual 4th line next year with lemieux and gauthier on the 2 wings
 
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GoAwayStaal said:
He wouldn't, because even with those players he'd sit on any leads he may have and he wouldn't have the goalie to bail him out. I mean he had the Sedins in their prime years and the high end goalie. Crosby and Malkin they weren't, but those guys were pretty good...

You realize that Talbot was also relied on heavily to bail his team out during the 6 or so weeks that Hank was out right? He was the main reason that they won the Presidents' trophy that year. He gave the team Hank-like performances while actual Hank was on the mend (his high danger save% that year was actually better than Hank's!) This had nothing to do with AV's coaching, dude was a beast and rightfully won the Macdonald award that year.

The NHL recycles coaches like it's good for the environment. We've seen many a bad coaches get a second opportunity (John Hynes anyone?) so I wouldn't really take AV getting multiple opportunities as a feather in his cap. If anything, having a good, not great, goalie will expose the truth to those who don't already see it. Even if he gets another opportunity after he inevitably flames out of Philly, that just really reinforces the fact that there are dumb people running teams in this league.
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Right but you even said they would have won the cup in 2011 against Boston had it not been for almost double digit injuries. So he would have proven he could win the whole thing with two star forwards and a very good goalie. The rest of the teams he coached I would say his teams were clearly inferior in the finals/Semifinals.
Yes I watched every game Talbot played. Are we now saying Talbot is elite as well? I guess he was only elite under AV.
I figured the response would be there are a lot of dumb people in the NHL and that is why he is getting rehired. The real hockey minds are right here on HFboards. Heck we should be hiring and firing coaches for Billion dollar franchises.
Just curious while Philly was the best team in the NHL for a good stretch this year why was there nothing but crickets regarding AV on here? Even the horrendous Brian Elliot was 16-7 this year and yes he is not a good NHL goalie.
So that is Raanta 44-27 Talbot 33-15 Elliot 16-7. Total with backup goalies...I'm sorry stud goalies that those three are have a total record of 93-49 under AV.
 
bl02 said:
Right but you even said they would have won the cup in 2011 against Boston had it not been for almost double digit injuries. So he would have proven he could win the whole thing with two star forwards and a very good goalie. The rest of the teams he coached I would say his teams were clearly inferior in the finals/Semifinals.
Yes I watched every game Talbot played. Are we now saying Talbot is elite as well? I guess he was only elite under AV.
I figured the response would be there are a lot of dumb people in the NHL and that is why he is getting rehired. The real hockey minds are right here on HFboards. Heck we should be hiring and firing coaches for Billion dollar franchises.
Just curious while Philly was the best team in the NHL for a good stretch this year why was there nothing but crickets regarding AV on here? Even the horrendous Brian Elliot was 16-7 this year and yes he is not a good NHL goalie.
So that is Raanta 44-27 Talbot 33-15 Elliot 16-7. Total with backup goalies...I'm sorry stud goalies that those three are have a total record of 93-49 under AV.
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This was like for a month and change.

It just seems like a good stretch of the year because it happened leading up to the pause and then ran through everyone in the Round Robin though it's become clear that most of those teams were going at 50% or less. I already posted the numbers that they were about middle of the pack both for the entire regular season and on par with the NYR after New Years.

Talbot was elite AF for those 6 weeks. Sample sizes are a thing though and not everyone is made for a starting role (Raanta can't stay on the ice, Talbot had a few strong seasons as a starter and then kind of fell apart.) Also theres this dude named Benoit Allaire who is pretty good at working with goalies, I think he had a lot more to do with the success of those guys in NY than AV did.

So you have Elliot who was real 5 games over .500 on a team that was solidly a top 3 team in the division. Thats kind of standard and not overly special.
 
Now that Lehner has cemented his status as the starter nothing is stopping me from being 100% on the Vegas Cup train. They have a great team, built for the playoffs.
 
After watching Vegas/Canucks, if Colorado can figure out a way too get past Dallas which I think will happen, I have either of the two winning the Cup. I just can't see any of the remaining East teams including the Lightning beating either Vegas or the Avs.

Now if the Stars somehow made it too the Cup, all bets are off as I do think an Islander or Tampa team could beat them. Bottom line is we need to hope it's Vegas or Avalanche coming out of the West otherwise I'd be a bit stressed out about the Islanders winning it all....I really would and that would be as painful as it gets...just sayin!
 
GoAwayStaal said:
This was like for a month and change.

It just seems like a good stretch of the year because it happened leading up to the pause and then ran through everyone in the Round Robin though it's become clear that most of those teams were going at 50% or less. I already posted the numbers that they were about middle of the pack both for the entire regular season and on par with the NYR after New Years.

Talbot was elite AF for those 6 weeks. Sample sizes are a thing though and not everyone is made for a starting role (Raanta can't stay on the ice, Talbot had a few strong seasons as a starter and then kind of fell apart.) Also theres this dude named Benoit Allaire who is pretty good at working with goalies, I think he had a lot more to do with the success of those guys in NY than AV did.

So you have Elliot who was real 5 games over .500 on a team that was solidly a top 3 team in the division. Thats kind of standard and not overly special.
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elliot is not a good goalie and yes small sample size but still 9 games over nhl .500.

I don’t know but before the covid break they looked like the best team in the NHL. Down the stretch were games started to take on more importance. They went I believe 19-6 in their final 25 and won 9 in a row in convincing fashion including pretty much dominating us. I would say that’s quite impressive. Scoring between 4-5 goals a game. and I call total bullshit on anyone who think any coach would have taken this team to the top of the metro and deep into the playoffs.
Yet here we are an the flyers have done both under AV this year. In fact I was one of the few who said AV would take this flyers team to a playoff birth and top 3 metro. Now all the av haters are like yeah this team should easily be in the ecf if it wasn’t for AV losing this series to the “crappy” islanders
 
KirkAlbuquerque said:
Now that Lehner has cemented his status as the starter nothing is stopping me from being 100% on the Vegas Cup train. They have a great team, built for the playoffs.
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Let’s just hope whoever they play in the East they don’t lose like they did to the caps
 
Lehner was such a smart pickup. That’s the kind of TDL move that can be the difference for between winning the Cup and not.

Fleury is easy to like as a player, but man it was really starting to grate on me listening to his supporters explain why he should and is going to the HHOF. He’s once again lost the starting job on the contender.
 
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aufheben said:
Lehner was such a smart pickup. That’s the kind of TDL move that can be the difference for between winning the Cup and not.

Fleury is easy to like as a player, but man it was really starting to grate on me listening to his supporters explain why he should and is going to the HHOF. He’s once again lost the starting job on the contender.
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Thats the reason I hate Fleury. He seems like a nice guy but holy shit the NHL is in love with him , the most overrated goalie in history.

But yeah, getting a starting goalie for that cheap, they could go all the way and he will be a big reason why. Fleury was good in 2018 but he was a big part of their meltdown last season vs San Jose and just is just an average goalie.
 
KirkAlbuquerque said:
Thats the reason I hate Fleury. He seems like a nice guy but holy shit the NHL is in love with him , the most overrated goalie in history.

But yeah, getting a starting goalie for that cheap, they could go all the way and he will be a big reason why. Fleury was good in 2018 but he was a big part of their meltdown last season vs San Jose and just is just an average goalie.
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I think between Vokoun, Murray, and Lehner, this is the third time he’s been replaced in the playoffs by a contending team.
 
aufheben said:
Lehner was such a smart pickup. That’s the kind of TDL move that can be the difference for between winning the Cup and not.

Fleury is easy to like as a player, but man it was really starting to grate on me listening to his supporters explain why he should and is going to the HHOF. He’s once again lost the starting job on the contender.
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He's a decent regular season goalie who's been on super teams his entire career and he turns into an absolute pumpkin in the playoffs every year, I'd rather see Chris Osgood in the HHOF than Fleury. And while I'm at it, even before his injury issues, Matt Murray wasn't/isn't very good either, like Fleury, he needed someone else there to get some of the wins for both of his cups
 
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MAF has no individual awards, no Top 3 Vezina ever, and Cups are overrated as hell considering he was the starter for 1.5 of them. He also didn't play a second for that Olympic gold.

But the media loves him b/c wins and Cups and I have no doubt he'll end up in the HHoF before Hank because of it.

Most overrated goalie of the last decade. Even more-so than Price.
 
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Irishguy42 said:
MAF has no individual awards, no Top 3 Vezina ever, and Cups are overrated as hell considering he was the starter for 1.5 of them. He also didn't play a second for that Olympic gold.

But the media loves him b/c wins and Cups and I have no doubt he'll end up in the HHoF before Hank because of it.

Most overrated goalie of the last decade. Even more-so than Price.
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He was also a 1st overall pick which the old guard loves to bring up as an accolade
 
One has to wonder who exactly had it out for Gerard Gallant on the Knights ? They basically are the same club with a different coach . Must have been some kind of a rift between Gallant and George MacPhee or else a couple of major players like PacMan and Stone I have to figure . Anybody hearing any good stories on this ? Not much talk on the subject here on PEI...I figured we would have heard something by now on that firing .
 
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